3000K off will raze retal ALL (8:9) v HaVoC AT WAR PSO(3:12)

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

Above post yellow is asking to prove a negative. There was nothing about fairness in that question you posed. Surely you can say both have the ability to rob ooh so it is fair, but it is my opinion that robbing ooh is wrong and if the other kingdom is noble they wont and therefore it is unfair. In the same regard Havoc could have someone raze into this war much like Bartija is doing. Bartija never had any agreement with havoc to not raze into their wars.



My stance on this topic is unwavering. You can even go back to Abi plundering Emeriti, my stance is unchanged. Is yours? In my experience I have never seen an agreement that people aren't allowed to hack the other kingdoms accounts pre-conflict or during conflict.

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The situation with abi and Emeriti isnt equal to this. You lack the necessary data to make such conclusions to begin with. What if they robbed Bart (if they even robbed him there is no proof of that) 38 hours ago and found a war 24 hours ago? Is it still unethical for you cause it gives a "unfair" advantages lol. If you want to be sincere you should establish a timeline then you can make a conlusion.

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Originally Posted by Korp

The situation with abi and Emeriti isnt equal to this. You lack the necessary data to make such conclusions to begin with. What if they robbed Bart (if they even robbed him there is no proof of that) 38 hours ago and found a war 24 hours ago? Is it still unethical for you cause it gives a "unfair" advantages lol. If you want to be sincere you should establish a timeline then you can make a conlusion.

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In my mind burden of proof shifted from Bartija to Havoc when they 1. Target shared and 2. lied. Granted that is opinion based and I am not saying everyone must think that way. So if Havoc can present evidence to clear their name I'd be 100% happily open to it (like really I'd love to side against bartija here.)

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

In my mind burden of proof shifted from Bartija to Havoc when they 1. Target shared and 2. lied. Granted that is opinion based and I am not saying everyone must think that way. So if Havoc can present evidence to clear their name I'd be 100% happily open to it (like really I'd love to side against bartija here.)

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Isnt up to you to provide evidence for your accusations, lied by the way? Have you proof of this? Targetsharing isnt against the rules (ingame) why are you against that but not hitting into war? Where do you draw the line of what is ethical right or wrong? So far we can conclude, hitting into wars totally okey, targetsharing big nono.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Isnt up to you to provide evidence for your accusations, lied by the way? Have you proof of this? Targetsharing isnt against the rules (ingame) why are you against that but not hitting into war? Where do you draw the line of what is ethical right or wrong? So far we can conclude, hitting into wars totally okey, targetsharing big nono.

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Read the thread Havoc started and bishop had to shut down? Forum target sharing is an actual rule, hitting into someone's war is not. Lying is universally considered wrong ethically.

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

Read the thread Havoc started and bishop had to shut down? Forum target sharing is an actual rule, hitting into someone's war is not. Lying is universally considered wrong ethically.

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But nobody lied? You didnt provide proof so there is no lies. Targetsharing outside of the forums isnt against the rules either but I dont see how a forum rule has any relevancy to ingame rules.

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Originally Posted by Korp

But nobody lied? You didnt provide proof so there is no lies. Targetsharing outside of the forums isnt against the rules either but I dont see how a forum rule has any relevancy to ingame rules.

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Havoc claimed 2 things. 1 to have not received any message from bartija. 2 to have not stolen from bartija. Later they admit they had received message and contextually admit they robbed ("over a few lost monies"). So if bart posts his news you'll side with him korp? Hitting into wars is okay for RoO but not for bartija. Not doing diplo is okay for havoc but not for DD. Robbing pre war is okay for havoc but not DD. Interesting.

Target sharing on the forums is a rule, and the forum rules are rules. We are here discussing on the forums, where they broke the rules. So only one side has broken any rules here.

If I've understood 5 pages right, Bart wrote to them offering a CF with nothing required from them (ie no free acres, free gold etc) and gave them time to reply (I think I saw 2 days - hopefully that was RL time..) and they ignored it. He told them he would raze into war if they ignored it and they still ignored it.

I don't know Bart and wouldn't normally condone hitting into wars, but I'm struggling to say he did anything wrong. Had he been requiring anything in return for the CF I would not be agreeing with him but it was hardly asking much to say 'you have taken my gc, leave me alone for the rest of the age and I won't do anything to you'. Sure they don't have to agree to that, but to me that implies they intend to keep stealing his gc, so why shouldn't he be able to raze them, even if they are in war.

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

I could understand if they had an agreement that no one would hit into their war, but as far as I have understood, they did not. And handicapping yourself to only hit in and out of non war stance doesn't give everyone else the obligation to handicap themselves in return.

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You'd have a point if I was trying to argue that hitting into wars wasn't fair, which I'm not

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

Havoc claimed 2 things. 1 to have not received any message from bartija. 2 to have not stolen from bartija. Later they admit they had received message and contextually admit they robbed ("over a few lost monies"). So if bart posts his news you'll side with him korp? Hitting into wars is okay for RoO but not for bartija. Not doing diplo is okay for havoc but not for DD. Robbing pre war is okay for havoc but not DD. Interesting.

Target sharing on the forums is a rule, and the forum rules are rules. We are here discussing on the forums, where they broke the rules. So only one side has broken any rules here.

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Its easy hiding behind a fake nick, never have to take any responsbility at all :)

But could you provide the claims proof that they were lying then? Should be fairly easy to point out which posts. Situations arent compareable, maybe Bart could come back after getting robbed blind for 2 months straight and then we can talk. Also its hilarious that you defend Bart from hitting into wars but god forbid that someone would steal some gold before a war. That its so unethical :(

Can you guarantee that Bart hasnt broken any rules?

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Originally Posted by Palem

You'd have a point if I was trying to argue that hitting into wars wasn't fair, which I'm not

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So your stance is that neither are in the wrong? I'm okay with that stance tbh. Neither broke in game rules or deal broke.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Its easy hiding behind a fake nick, never have to take any responsbility at all :)

But could you provide the claims proof that they were lying then? Should be fairly easy to point out which posts. Situations arent compareable, maybe Bart could come back after getting robbed blind for 2 months straight and then we can talk. Also its hilarious that you defend Bart from hitting into wars but god forbid that someone would steal some gold before a war. That its so unethical :(

Can you guarantee that Bart hasnt broken any rules?

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OP of his target sharing thread, and the messages exchanged between he and bartija posted in this thread. Situations aren't comparable? You said you'd raze into war after your first interaction with them, not after 2 months. When do you draw the line for it being okay to raze into war then? Is it only when it is your kd?

I can't guarantee that bartija hasn't broken any rules because to prove that I would have to prove a negative.... cute though.

I think razing into a war because someone stole from you is a bit of a dick move and if he did it to me he could most definitely look forward to my future ****playing against him, but I wouldn't say he did anything "wrong".

I think "wrong" has layers and outside of breaking the rules labeling anything as "wrong" is shortsighted

The King is Dead, Long Live the King!

Lets hope they elect a more sensible monarch now :/

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Originally Posted by Palem

I think razing into a war because someone stole from you is a bit of a dick move and if he did it to me he could most definitely look forward to my future ****playing against him, but I wouldn't say he did anything "wrong".

I think "wrong" has layers and outside of breaking the rules labeling anything as "wrong" is shortsighted

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You're not "wrong" here ;).

If I'm in havoc's shoes I wouldn't ignore diplo and I would have accepted the eoacf in exchange for the gold I took. If bartija razed me into war though I would be pissed, but if it was my fault... Personally I wouldn't need a reason to look forward to future chitplay against bartija, I mean come on it's bartija.

If I'm in bartija's shoes, I'm not sure I'd do the exact same thing because there are many options to go with. But, I would definitely consider it after 2 days of ignoring my diplo and running to war.

Theres always this province in utopia that call himself outplayer smth (not the current bart), im not sure if the original outplayer is in his kd, top kds always cf them and dont hit them, cos this guy just retal when you least expected.

If its me, i wont be messing with a kd or a province that has nothing to lose the whole age. The whole point of their existance is waiting for someone to mess with them so that they can screw u up when it hurt the most. Unless you intend to spend the whole age warring Bart in this case, why would anyone go touch that 2 kds (one is bart kd, another kd im not sure) with 4-5 provinces at 7-8k arces.

Of course if you really intend to screw Bart KD. A 22 provinces kd should have no issues messing with the 5 provinces in the long run, but you would have spend the age to prove the point.