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FFS, read my comment again please. It says I'm still searching forums, something you could very well be doing yourself. It's actually a pretty good feeling, searching the forums and seeing just how deeply the players have explored the game's mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
The fact that you've had to dig that deep and that it's not mentioned in any way shape or form in the wiki means it probably should have been mentioned in the prosperous introduction, don't you think?
Unless of course it was an accidental oversight, which it almost certainly was.
No, the fact that I have to dig that deep means that it's a mechanic that hasn't been changed in a LONG time. The fact that it's not in the wiki means that it was never added to the wiki (which means it was never put in the wiki thread to be added). Again, the only things that have ever been mentioned in the age changes are things that have changed. Prosperous is B]identical[/B] to Fortified, with the only changes being the ones that were mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
Oh, btw, here's a thread from 2011 where Bishop states that UD conversions are significantly reduced from fort:
Fortified Stance & Undead elite conversion rate (Utopia Talk)
I'm done here, but I do want to thank you for the experience. This reminded me of why I fell in love with this game to begin with: explore the game mechanics, engaging with the community to figure out strategies, and delving through the forum to find answers to obscure and/or forgotten mechanics. That's a part of the Utopia experience IMO. You can continue to complain and whine about not getting what you want, but the fact remains that Utopia has always placed the onus on the player to figure out the numbers behind mechanics.
Something existing for a long time does not mean everyone knows about it, I think you're missing that part.
The formula was almost entirely masked by the gains reduction fort had built in. Removing that gains reduction removed the mask and put this formula front and center.
You can pretend like everyone knew about it and that it was common knowledge, but it wasn't as the numerous thread pertaining to the topic will attest to.
Don't confuse poor communication with entertaining gameplay.
You're right, something existing for a long time doesn't mean everyone knows about it, but the players have the tools to find out about it. I've said this in a previous post, so I'm positive I'm not missing that part.
Also, the formula has always been around, but the playerbase assumed it was linked to gains and gains reduction effects. It was never confirmed by a dev because apparently nobody ever asked (unconfirmed, but I didn't find anything after all of my searching). So people ran off assumptions until it was just confirmed by the current devs. Now that the formula is so important, you want the devs to just hand it over? That's not how this works...it's up to the players to figure this out.
I'm not pretending that this was common knowledge or that everyone knew; I'm pointing out the ridiculousness and idiocy of whining about not knowing something that you can find out on your own. It's your fault for not knowing and not bothering to try to find the answer; you can't blame the devs for that. Don't confuse ignorance with entitlement.
As I've said many times, I've never asked for the formula. Just an indication that a formula exists (without having to go back to obscure posts three and six years ago) . A reasonable person would not assume there was a conversion reduction based on the information available. The math that makes up the formula was what was on the onus of the community to determine, not the presence of a formula.
Normally age changes would make an indication like "conversions for undead are reduced hitting into prosperous" and the community would have to figure out how much the reduction was. Wanting to know that information isn't entitlement any more than wanting to know what the new elite values are.
It's needless omission of pertinent information, whether that could be divined through painstaking combing through comments from years ago or not.