Next Age suggestions

Summary

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Mystic
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+1% mana-regen
Successful attacks done by Mystics 'rasp' 10-20% the target's current mana. Rasped mana is destroyed.

Elf
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Bonus to WPA.
Cheaper elite, or 6/5 elite.
Lowered wages.
Lowered losses.
Successful attacks by elves 'rasp' 10-20% of the target's current mana. Rasped mana is simply destroyed.



Orc
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Plague
Fat gains
Immune to fog
Free draft, locked at 'normal,' level, but able to switch to 'no' draft.

Dwarf
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Free buildings
Better buildings.
Access to meteor showers.

Human
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Bonus cash
Bonus science
Added small learn on all successful attacks, as in the old days.
+1 defensive dude power
Access to fog.

Mills need to be *2%. or *3% for lowered construction times, which is in addition to the other two bonuses mills already have.

Swapped racial spells
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"All; defense: magic shield, minor protection, fertile lands, nature's blessing, love and peace, builder's boon, inspire army, anonymity, shadowlight, patriotism, paradise. Offense: crystal ball, crystal eye, storms, drought, mystic vortex, land lust.

Dark elf; metal and mystics: greed, fool's gold, tree of gold, animate dead, fireball, warspoils, invisibility, mystic aura.
Elf; defense and nature: tornadoes, lightning strikes, reflect magic, mystic aura, fountain of knowledge, clear sight, greater protection.
Gnome; trickery: vermin, amnesia, pitfalls, expose thieves, invisibility, explosions, greed, warspoils.
Orc; fear and aggression: nightmares, aggression, fanaticism, quick feet, fireball.
Dwarf; stone, mist, and fire: fireball, meteor showers, fog, explosions.
Human; pride and conquest: greater protection, town watch, fountain of knowledge, fanaticism, fog, quick feet.

Change the themes, the spellbooks change.
The above's just an example."

The relations system needs a complete new re-design.

The effect of all stances should show in the military advisor.

Remove artisan completely, and replace it with a personality that specializes in less unit-losses for you, but more for the opponent, OR one that gives a bonus to population, plus birthrates.

wow, VT2 really loves elves :/

add to that list also, the ability of dwarves to speed build, but not for free, but they have to pay for it!

I still think Orcs could use no draft cost, on the basis that, Emergency draft is eliminated altogether.

And Elves wouldn't be able to be balanced in that format because of the pending influx of Elf/Mystics... a double rasp per attack per prov is far too unbalanced.

Who said you'd get anything out of having the bonus twice?

Well, without having it clearly stated, it is a reasonable assumption that bonus would be applied twice.

Besides which point, on the basis that, elves didn't have a double rasp effect, the only change between the Elf/Mystic today, and with the aforementioned changes would be that they would still have extra damages applied to attacks, but only at the loss of MS. Making Elves more in need of a nerfbat than what they are now.

MS which can be MV'd moments after the cast versus an attack which could take up to 7 utopian days to recover from...

You haven't played elf outside the ghetto.

True, it rules down there, but up here, you hit the elf once or twice, and its archers leave.
You hit it like that again later, and it will only have the elites left.

Any competent A/M elf can dispell any other elf out there.

Elf is a glasscannon - nothing more, and nothing less.

Elf is a glass-cannon when you have the ability to smack it whenever you want to. When you don't have the ability to smack it whenever you want to, its just a cannon, aimed at your face.

Try hitting it.
The player using the elf will cry if you do. If not, hit a second time.

Now he's running low on peasants.

And at this point I'm going to have to ask which Race/Personality doesn't cry out for you to stop when you hit it enough times?

Elves would still have CS, RM, MA, PF, GP, -combat losses, -wages... then get, defaulted, mana-rasp on top of all that.

And that's suppose to be balanced how?

Because you can dispell them, and elves have zero economy.
If you hit an elf a few times, he'll hurt more than a human you'd hit several times over.

Elf is second in power this age, but it's still easy to beat it.
The same can't be said for dwarf.

-Dispel them while Elves have increased wpa...

-Elves may have a, closer to, static economy, but that won't block aid... explosions statistically won't either with increaded wpa

-I've triple tapped Elves and barely seen their def drop, but I've yet to say that for a human...

-Comparison between Elves and Dwarfs is almost, almost, like day versus night.

I'll support Orc free draft as long as they are blocked from using emergency draft OR emergency draft is removed all together.

/agreed

If emergency draft is what people fear being exploited, then remove it altogether.

If you take down an elf, he'll get back up. As long as the elf can hit, he'll get back up.
You can't take down a dwarf.

I fought a lot of elves this age, and they're only scary when there're a lot of them - say 18 or more.

And yeah, my A/M's have the WPA needed to dispell elves.

Aid doesn't solve anything if your army's leaving, and you have 200 peasants, plus your current pop is four times over your max pop.

Also, I think food science should be changed to production science. (as VT2 or whoever before him mentioned.)

The science will affect all flat-rate buildings (GC from banks, food from farms, guilds(?), runes from towers, the rate of horse production from stables) and anything else I might've missed.

Magic science will be purely +magic effectiveness (or also adds spell strength; if that's the case the coefficient should be dropped)

VT2,

At the point of which you reduce a person's current pop to 4 times their max pop, you chained a person to the point to attempting to legitimately PK them back to /dev/null

Which, again, begs the question, if I reduce any other race/personality to the point of having a current population four times their maximum population which race/personality combination would survive that level of chaining? Moreover, if that's the extent you have to go to just to take down an elf, don't you think there is something wrong there?

None, and that's the beauty of it.
Even elf dies if you do it to them, but I have yet to find a realistic way to do it to a dwarf.

pm time...

In case you missed it, I have never once thrown a direct argument against you, for I know your kind, and what you are capable of.

Engaging in a direct, verbal battle against you and the rest of your kind will only result in an endless stalemate.

Not specifically no, I've not missed it, nor am I aiming at anything more having balanced game play. I'm an actual debater, which I know, is dangerous in public forum debate; but whatever. Being paranoid for me matching Iovan flame for flame was because Iovan was boring enough to get to that point. You, have yet to prove yourself to be that type of individual, which is outstanding, especially considering the topic of debate and seriousness inherent within. So by all means, explain and engage away, it's not as though there aren't enough utopian based moderators thumbing through the thread.

Bring Back razes destroying land in war. Nothing is more annoying than completely lacking the ability to kill an annoying province in war. Its also counter-intuitive that a "Raze" attack in war is less destructive than it is in normal relations.

man this thread is making my head swim. going back to what "Catty" said a few pages back, completely reworking something like the relations system needs to be dedicated to much more than 10 days (less now).

I think genesis should be made back into the test server for things like that so it can be tested thoroughly and not just have major ideas like that thrown in full of bugs.

and Phyzor is right, make the ages longer (minimum 12 weeks like they've always been).

Oma < Phyz

Once again, as SillyPanda also notes, Elf is not nearly as weak as VT2 and some others pretend they are. They do not deserve to be made better at all.

Also, as Jimmy says, the changes that need to be made are pretty big. Making a ton of changes to buildings and races etc. should not be the focus at all (though of course it is too late to make big changes right now) and really isn't necessary. I do support the notion of balancing things so that all races, buildings, sciences etc. are acceptable choices for anyone. However, many of the proposed changes are too drastic and will likely end up making the game less balanced instead. If you're gonna make a huge change to anything, try it out on genesis first. And most important of all, start being objective, and stop trying to promote boosts to your favorite race just because you want it to be overpowered

I suggest that OMAC focuses on making a few small balancing changes, fix any existing bugs with the system, and then once the age gets going and stabilizes start talking about the bigger issues so that we all have time to discuss them before next age

1- fix the spells/thieves attemps and make it more logical because 10wpa cant cast ms on 3 wpa is wrong
2- give more definitions to the personalities so we know exactly how it will works
3- mystic +1 mana
4- science change food to production and add ruens and foods under it
5- spread fog on more then 1 race
6- war hero +1 general
7- houses increase to 40 other then 33
8- more horses in stables
9- every month 1 extra move for kingdoms under 20 province
10- no lose honor during war
11- remove attack based nw during war

Make orc BLOODY!

Each traditional attack the orc does a mini-plunder (mayby 10%-20% of normal plunder) and a mini massacre (10%-20% ?) in addition to +25% gains.

To balance this bonus, give them some T/M penelties

1. Make DE harder to play so that 50% of the server don't go DE every age: remove free spells and let their lands generate runes, or make it harder to steal runes from them.
2. Weaken Elf. -40% losses, lose QF and CS.
3. Strengthen Orc slightly. 8/3 and 750 gc elite perhaps?
4. Stop humans from auto failing self spells. Their magic deficiency should only affect incoming or outgoing spells. If you have to compensate, put it back to -30%.
5. Remove Artisan or replace with something else.
6. Connect dice to explore pool
7. Balance science. It's still too hard to get sci if you're not a sage and you like to war. Maybe let hits in war generate new science
8. Limit the legal sitting considerably. Set a max limit to how many provs can be sit simultaneously.
9. Start discussions about the bigger issues in time so we have more than 10 days to find a solution before genesis ends (so the ideas can be tested there)
10. OMAC should keep playing the game so they can build their confidence

And some DO NOTs:
1. remove nw based attack times in war: it should be a strategic decision to hit a chain target or someone your own size. Possibly make the effects smaller in war, but do not remove.
2. Make too many changes without trying some out on genesis first
3. Do not make decisions about changes based on popularity (as in: how many advocate a certain thing is completely irrelevant, because most people aren't objective at all. Ofc you should doubt me too ;) )
4. Remove the honor loss from war. You'd make it easy for honor whores to just fake war to protect their honor. If you want to remove the 1%, then you should add some kind of honor decay based on how active the war is (make it dishonorable to be in a fake war)

what if you increase the ammount of honor decay, but also give an increased ammount of new honor generated in each attack?

Bring back Undead and Faery ..... not avians they suck

Remove ponys and bring back boats .......

Give Faery's bloodlust .................... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Also make undeads truelly undeads like in the past you have to die to become undead not a race choice.

t/m's have taken over the game ENTIRELY... Please pump Orcs so the balance between thieves/mages/attackers is evened out once again... My kingdom is considering all going DE again next age simply because they are soooooooo overpowered compared to all other races....



When I first played Utopia in 1998 I loved the game because it was possible to be in a ghetto kingdom and still be competing for top-positions in land and networth (honor wasn't invented yet). This age was my first round in 3 years, and I'm disappointed to see that the t/m overtaking has continued it's trajectory and Orc's have become completely redundant in the charts...

The biggest kick I used to get out of Utopia was being in an all-Orc kingdom and making +500 acre random landgrabs... NOT waiting for my stealth to grow to 100% and then NS all my stealth, 70 specs at a time... and then turning to mystics and FB'ing peasants, 800 at a time... this is what Utopia offers today... PATHETIC... PATHETIC... PATHETIC... PATHETIC...

Please give the orc his 6-point defender back.

Add two new sciences

Transportation - reduces attack times.

Medicine - reduces military losses in combat, reduces military and peasant losses from meteors, reduces peasant losses from FB.



Merge the Learn and Plunder attacks - to create a viable and damaging alternative to Trad march. Sages and schools would still maintain their ability to protect science losses.


Reduce the damage inflicted by Nightstrike.


Reduce the damage inflicted by Meteors.


Reduce the difficulty of taking CB's.


Reduce the difficulty of taking SoMs.


Make succesful SoMs 100% accurate.


Homes to house 50 peasants.


Stables to hold 100 horses.


Dungeons to hold 80 prisoners.


Completely nerf the honour points gained from doing ops and spells. Half it at least.


Increase significantly damage done by Raze attack in war.


Get rid of 12 hr and 20 hr bonuses. One bonus only after 6 hrs. Non stacking.


Reduce the explore pools to one quarter of their current size and replenishment rate. Paradised acres to come from the explore pool. War win bonus adds significant "NEW" acres to winners explore pool. (Not from losers pool). All successful Trad marches (in war & oow) create a few NEW acres for the explore pool.


It will still be possible to play a turtling T/M if you want to but your ability to keep growing will depend on your kingdoms success in war or having sufficient numbers of successful attackers in your kingdom to keep acres flowing into the explore pool.


Is this the kind of stuff you are looking for Lydias??

@ Cuchulainn

You are an attacker.
You hate ops on you, because your thievery and mage defense sucks.
You have low WPA/TPA. It annoys you to keep trying to get intel.
You find it too hard to get 2 SoMs and use a SoM calculator to get the exact numbers for you.
You don't like T/M taking your honor, because you can't break them.
You suck at being an attacker.

And your suggestions to improve the game are what Diego?? Your post is a waste of space. Not helpful at all is it? To anyone?

But just for your info. I have played very successfully at pure attacker and at A/T and at A/M depending on the age and the race / personality requirements of my kd at that time.

You shouldn't knock what you don't understand and you obviusly don't understand the stagnation being suffered by a once glorius game.

If you have nothing positive to contribute to the debate then kindly refrain from taking part. Your post will probably be deleted shortly if the mods are doing their jobs.

Mods?? Where are you?? This thread needs an enima!!

*replace "Building Efficiency" by "Average Building Efficiency"

The way this would work is that you ASSIGN a percentage or number of your peasants to work in a specific building type. This would result in a lot more diversity options for players. If you need more gc, you assign more peasants to banks. If you need more food, you assign more peasants to farms. If you need higher defense, you assign more peasants to forts. Etc etc. Only static buildings like Stables require a given number of peasants to operate.

*Add seasonal effects to Utopia

For example, 1 year of little rain: reducing bushel production by 20%. FL would compensate this. Other example: 1 month of heavy snowfall: decreasing attack speed by 20%. Other example: vulcano erruption, darkening the skies for 2 months. Orcs and Dark Elves have increased morale during this time, resulting in increased building efficiency, Dwarves are unaffected and Elves, Gnomes and Humans have reduced BE.

*Add a gc reward to the winning kd after war

Take 50% of the gc of the losing kd and spread it across the winning kd, much like honor.

*Make hostile spells contribute to increasing relations

No more 'abusing the button' without giving unfriendly. This would result in more wars as well as kingdoms would be less reluctant to get to unfriendly/hostile

God, I'm agreeing with VT2! Remove Artisan, or make it worthwhile, it's useless as is.

I'd like to see the forum redone, so Monarch and Page can actually edit messages not just delete them as well as allowing monarch to appoint more than one page if he/she wants to.

Shadowlight, it says it "Protects" your land from thieves, but as far as I can tell all it does is name who thieved off of you, it needs to do something to actually "protect" you from thieves IMO.

Races.... The Numbers... suggested changes.

Humans - Get rid of +1 def spec.

Elves - Allow access to dungeons

Dwarves - Building construction at 25% normal cost. (Not free). Thievery effectiveness -20%. Elite cost to $900.

Orcs - Draft costs -75%. Normal honour bonuses. Science costs +25%.

Gnomes - Cost of thieves -30%. Birthrates -15%. -25% bonuses from honour. Elite unit $350 (well it just shouldn't be cheaper than a spec)

Dark Elves - 75% of normal runes required. (No FREE spells).


These are just suggested changes... anything not mentioned stays the same as last age. I'm especially against anything for FREE being given to any of the races. Significantly reduced costs or expenses are okay but nothing should be completely free.

Bring back TradeWars 2010!! And make it online playable like Utopia/Earth 2025!

Yeah I agree, go back to land based gains, nw based doesn't make the game as diverse.

It makes it less easy to farm out people.
That's pretty much the reason we went back to networth-based.

Races:
* DE ,thieves cost 700, no fools gold , no lightning strike spells.
* Dwarf , drop theivery eff to 15%, build speed fixed to 16h . give fools gold.
* orc, remove honor penalty,


Personalities:
* Mystics , add also +15% rune production
* Artisan , flats BE bonus to 40%, 60% protection of massacres, raze and buildings agaisnt tornadoes and arson.
*warrior , remove ambush prot. , give better enchantged conguest attack
*war hero , remove conguest attack, casualties +30% .
*sage , remove learn protection. , schools 2X more effective.

Buildings:
* homes increse homes by 15, birhtrate*4,5
* farms , http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=579505 .
*mills , also increase building speed *2
* barrax lower attack times *1,75
* GS, also protects from massacre losses *2,5(peasasnt,Thief,mages)
* stables hold 70 horses

(overally i want to see more building types and better effectiviness in them., not that buuildings hold differenct bonuses)

Science:
( more science types )
* drop food sci where it was last age.

Thievery/Magic:
* Change gains curve from rob the towers op
* remove lightning strike from DE
* drop mana/stealth cost on intel ops by 1 or 2 . and make them easier.
* make wizards train faster after massacre hit(24h)
* make fog % based ,66% change to get it.

Attacking:
quicker war hits, 20%.

Stances:
* peacefull. 60% birthrates
* fortified. 30% quicker construction
* fort gives 15% def, auto fail on self spells
* agg. only 5% bigger gains

War:
* quicker war hits, 20%
* remove honor penalty
* increase honor creation
* 30% faster military training
* exept CF period, make one time penalties for wars where not seeing over 10 succesfull attacks at 48h.(ex. lose 4% honor and 10% gc )

misc:
* take a step forward to IRC, OMAC.
* More active and quicker responces at these forums, OMAC have to show them selves that they REALLY want to do something and good at alltimes.