They couldnt do it even if they wanted to, its just an excuse they hide behind "We think its boring"Quote:
Anyway most of the warring kd's don't have any intention to dice since they find it boring.
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They couldnt do it even if they wanted to, its just an excuse they hide behind "We think its boring"Quote:
Anyway most of the warring kd's don't have any intention to dice since they find it boring.
"Whoring kd's use their inferior setup as an excuse for losing wars, they couldn't even win if they wanted to", you can use that argument both ways i guess...Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Afaik last time sanc went for a warring age they went 1-5 or 1-6? And their ud/myst strat proved great strategical insight.
well thats 1 kingdom who probably had activity issues as far as i can see?
saying warring kd's cant whore even if they want to is weak argument
who was it again that just passed rage on the charts despite all the leet players claiming they would farm out previous to the conflict ?? its warring KD if I am not mistaking ... I find it rather amusing that after all the smug comments made against bio early in the age they still dont receive recognition for anything they do ... now after war with rage all of the sudden warwin is what matters ???
srsly ppl ...
Didn't know dicing required a ton of skills? Please enlighten...Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
It's a shame that there's such a segregation between the 'whoring' and the 'warring' community. To put it in to perspective though, I've warred HaJ kd's that had better activity and more coordination than Rage did.
Am I saying those HaJ kd's are better than Rage? Surely not. But a good start would be to have the activity and coordination required to succeed given the right tactics.
Most KD's are only one leader shy from being good at both. Just look at Fury.
Lol you kidding? The first withdraw from us could be considered a loss. After hitting into fortified and you having the initial war waves and a bank, it was just a matter of time before we'd run out of troops. Knowing it wasn't over either way, we withdrew. After war you gave us button and we declared shortly after.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdorje
That entire war, at no given moment, you had a chance of beating us. Our offence was still solid; solid enough to take down your larger dwarves, who where even turtling most of the war.
Your cow was forced to turtle to avoid being taken down. At no time your cow supported your kingdom. Trade balance remained the same the entire war, nor did it assist slaying your dragon. The sole reason you warred us twice was because of your attempt to win province crown, as you had no chance of beating Rage in land/nw. We withdrew because we didn't want to reward you for sacrificing your kingdom for over 50k acres just to get your chance on.
The only thing that prevented your cow from not being farmed, was the fact you had diced all age, and we had been fighting a major part of the age, unable to build a solid number of wizards.
The first war can be considered slightly in your favor. The second was a clear loss for you. You'd have only won if we'd stay in war, farming more acres from you but on the downside giving you prov landcrown.
The only thing I'd like to add is that you guys are all massive geeks.
Rofl it's soooooooo funny how you guys all have the same mentality that wws are irrelevant to land/nw (which is true), yet you get so mad when some other kd beats you in war and brags about it in forums.
Clearly, wws is more important than being bigger than another kd. Do i remember what place sanct or inzzo finished last round? No, but i remember inzzo wding to sanct rofl.
The only exception is if you crowned obv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macros
Nerds. Geeks collect transformers toys n shat. 40 year old virgin was a geek, but not a nerd.
Some people are crossing over to the turbo nerd category tho on here, which is almost as bad as geek imo.
Basically it's like this (nuahk got it pretty much right):
Whoring and losing wars feels like **** when you don't crown. Cuz then you are just a big kingdom who lost wars to ghettos. Crowning makes whatever wars you fought along the way meaningless, unless you won a war which got you the crown, which would be ideal.
Who the hell would ever go undead mystic? Certainly not us. And undead is a growth race, not a warring race.Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedL
Don't lie jd, you know UD/Mys is your favorite setup!Quote:
Originally Posted by jdorje
lol
How did we beat you then?Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
You people are seriously bad at math. Next time start watching the kingdom page instead of making numbers up.Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
[quote] Didn't know dicing required a ton of skills? Please enlighten...
First of all where did i say that it did?
Blame the warring community, they are the ones always bragging about how they are awesome at warrring and people that whore dont know how to war. Its easy to talk big now when utopia is on its death bed :) Ghettos like yours think they are something cause they finally manage to get up higher in the chartsQuote:
It's a shame that there's such a segregation between the 'whoring' and the 'warring' community. To put it in to perspective though, I've warred HaJ kd's that had better activity and more coordination than Rage did.
I think their history speaks for them, certainly was a high calibre kingdom.Quote:
Am I saying those HaJ kd's are better than Rage? Surely not. But a good start would be to have the activity and coordination required to succeed given the right tactics.
But its nice that kingdoms like yours get your spot in the sunshine as well, inflate your egos a lil :)
LOUD NOISES!!!
I admit when I first started playing I thought the top kingdoms were unable to war and hid up at the top to feel better about themselves! This is obviously untrue! Kingdoms at the top are very active and know the game inside and out! They would be able to destroy 95% of the kingdoms that don't go for Land/NW crowns in a war (though in all fairness 90% of that 95% are complete ghettos). There are plenty of very good kingdoms that prefer to stay relatively small and war instead of whore land. Some of those kingdoms, given the same approximate size would be able to put up a very good fight and beat a top Land/NW whoring kingdom! I don't think there's a single kingdom that could completely destroy a top Land/NW whoring kingdom in a war though, given that they were both ready and of the same approximate size!
Granted, I don't know too much about the grand history of top kingdoms, having spent 6.9 years almost completely oblivious to the happenings at the very top of the ranks, so I'm sure somebody will prove what I stated incorrect... Please remember I said that the kingdoms were of APPROXIMATE size, and BOTH WERE READY! no jumping on the other in pump mode like fury vs OS (allegedly)
did you play in sanc that age? do you know what happened? and u dont even know the proper set up we had. so stfuQuote:
Originally Posted by WickedL
Back to the war at hand!
How are things going..?
sanct is doing better than expected.
better than expected = could win
or
better than expected = not getting crushed
dorje seems motivated, so theyre performing well. When you take leadership out of the hands of scrubs like Allanon, only good things can happen. The downside is that dorje is gonna burn out after this, and the next conflict sanc goes into, they'll suck massive balls.
Im not worried at all. As i explained we had some troubles in the start and troubles pretty much continued up til tonight. Spread armies mostly. Trying to time them back together a bit and begin our old NM waves morning and night. Sanctuary will lose activity, we are picking up and we will pick up even more. Both calle and me been working 12h per day and not really had time for warring and stressing everyone to hit and tell them where to hit but im quite content that the KD manage to war sanctuary meanwhile we are slacking and still not lose. Here is summary from our side.
Sanc 89k acres start - Simians 85k acres start (fyi)
** Summary **
Total Attacks Made: 253 (34409 acres)
-- Traditional March: 223 (32212 acres)
-- Conquest: 1 (66 acres)
-- Ambush: 23 (2131 acres)
-- Massacres: 1 (5385 people)
-- Failed Attacks: 5 (2% failure)
Total Attacks Suffered: 215 (33821 acres)
-- Traditional March: 207 (33745 acres)
-- Ambush: 1 (76 acres)
-- Failed Attacks: 7 (3.3% failure)
The Kingdom of (Simians)
Total acres exchanged: +588 acres (253/215)
Dorje, you will lose soon ;-) Better WD all ready!
The Troll King has arrived.
everyone thought Rage had it in the bag, maybe Sanc will pull one over as well and win this! haha. stranger things have happened
Are you another of those guys of whom have not played in years and still continue to roam these forums like you're relevant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Frankly, I have no idea who you are but I appreciate the fact that you know of my ghetto as we're quite a new kd. Nonetheless, it stands as is. I've competed against and warred some HaJ kd's over the past couple of ages and I've also warred the supreme skd namely Rage and I conclude with the opinion that those HaJ kd's had better activity and more coordination than Rage did.
Now, of course you can argue this point if you're actually playing somewhere and have competed against both recently... but I highly doubt you have so I can only assume you're all talk.
A word of advice from a ghetto monarch, if you've retired, you're better of fading away and never to be heard of and seen again. That way at least when someone somewhere decides to speak of great accomplishments, they might remember you and yours. Being all Mr. Irrelevant bodes you no good. I can of course be all ghetto right now and demand your loc etc. I'm sure that's what they do at least. But it doesn't change the fact that this little ghetto of mine's have warred these SKD's and have never once heard your name pop up in any diplomatic talks/conversation. The conclusion of that of course is obvious.
Have a nice day sir, and see you around on the forums.
burned
ud mystic lol. did u even have enough tpa to take sot?Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedL
Semi Auto burn
Lets go with some war strategy discussion.
Generally, when people pick chain targets, they like to pick guys who have troops out for a long time, so that all their defense goes away.
This can be a nice strategy. The key here is for the avians with their 6 point leets and their 4 pt dspecs to then when they get chained, stay fully turtled and then their orcs should only be able to 1-2x your chained guys. Then you're winning the fight at the bottom.
Most people think controlling the top wins wars, when often the most important is controlling the bottom. Starting off a war doing this is very important.
However, after you've done that, often times the best chain targets are the guys who are getting their armies home right after your wave. It sounds like sanctuary is only 1x'ing from dorje's post due to low troops. Low troops also means they might have provinces on 3k acres with 30k peasants.
Find the province closest to that description, with the fewest acres incoming and ambush his incoming acres. They're tact so this likely won't work that well, but if you can get a guy to only have about 300a incoming, and then create a soldier pool and pass it to all your hitters as they hit so you don't take their peasants while you grab them, you can then chain someone down to 700a and they'll still have 30k peasants when their armies return in an hour.
Once they're home with their armies and 30k peasants, thats when they're forced to release most if not all of their offense, and those provinces cannot hit your largely turtled chainees. Most of the times you can't really get provinces completely out of networth range unless you can kill their offense. This is the best way to do just that, and that's how you make sure to beat orcs in war.
Perhaps the worst thing one can do is chain a province without a purpose. This is hard because once provinces start 3-4x'ing and having a lot of land incoming, chaining someone is usually fairly useless.
A failed chain is one in which you chain a large province who was only 1-2x'ing because he was large, and he has enough land incoming or you didn't chain deep enough for him to release offense. Worse off, often times when he comes home after being chained, he'll then be able to 4x your guys for more land than he was hitting for before.
Spending alot of energy chaining someone (which inherently means you have provinces hitting for less than max gains making them vulnerable to being chained) who can then 4x you back for big gains can quickly have you losing wars.
@flogger
High peasants low incoming land usually make the best chain targets in my experience. If you can ambush and get in all the hits during a wave right before his army returns, then ideally that'd be the best chain situation, ending up with extremely high peasants on low acres while all offense is at home. The wave would have to be perfectly timed tho for right before their army returns, otherwise peasants will be dropping hourly and incoming land is usually enough to get your army out (or after releasing some def/thieves). Against orcs, i think its a must to kill their off like u say, u do not want orcs at the "bottom" with incredible opa.
I liked your bit about sending soldiers to mates to prevent from getting peasants on attacks, never thought of that.
But really, is Simians running tacts on their avians over cleric? *sigh*
Wasn't my idea, was the best idea Chrissi ever had. I think simians is merchants.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhaN
Simians biggest problem is sanc appears to all be uniform in size, and Simians doesn't have enough provinces to chain 450-550k acre provinces (meaning they don't have a ton of provinces around 350k NW). Whereas Sanctuary with their 450k NW provinces should be the perfect NW to chain down simians 450-700k NW provinces. Simians NM and NS won't really help them here since that will just lower Sanc's NW even more and take them deeper out of NW range. NM and NS is good when you're topfeeding, not so much when you're bottomfeeding.
In order for Simians to win they need to gain control of the bottom by keeping enough defense at home so that sanc's smaller provinces can only 1-2x their smalls. It can be done, dwarves did it to our orcs in some fights last age, and Avians should be better at it than dwarves. Per their CE, it looks like both sides are just 4x'ing eachother, which plays right into the orcs hands.
Ive had some experience warring against orcs in the last two ages, it was always the worst idea chaining them down first. What my kd ended up doing was just fireballing them and letting them get fat, while we chained down hybrids. Obviously, sanct v simians the base is all one race so u cant do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
Even if an orc has virtually 0 defense at the bottom end of average size, theyre a major pain in the ass. So good points on coordinating to kill their off, i think its a must against orcs.
Also, im not sure why simians went merch? Isnt this ideal for kds coming oop big, or kds that are dicing, or kds with bad econ (which avian doesnt seem to have relative to ud or orcs)? How much does merch help in a long drawn out war really? Are you getting the necessary solds to train? I guess what im trying to say, unless ur dicing, how do u not pick cleric with avian, seems like a no brainer to me...
Merchant has three main advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhaN
1) in wars it lets you outpump to start wars (drafting deeper and having more troops to start, for example merchants can go 11 EPA and 9 DSPA where often non-merchants struggle to get 8 EPA and 8 DSPA). Combine that with a race that hits faster and that results in the ultimate farming situations where people can hit and run and take huge acres.
2) Compare how Rage ended its 4 day EoW period to how Fury will end its. Rage came out really pumped, whereas Fury will certainly struggle and be vulnerable for quite some time. Merchant is more adaptable and more able to fight multiple fights in a row, since 4 days allows it to almost completely recover.
3) The main advantage is early. Its not a coincidence that Rage and BIO were the only merchant kingdoms and got out to a huge lead to start. The first few weeks of the age the merchant kingdom can dice and get free waves off every non-merchant kingdom. Stubborn non-merchant kingdoms fight back and thus get in early wars and fall even farther behind than the dicing merchants. Often times Tact or Sage can beat Merchant in a 1 on 1 fight when both sides are of equal size and have weeks to prepare. At the top, rarely do the Tacts or Sage ever get to the same size as merchant though as a result of points #1 and #2.
Chaining orcs down to 0 defense is the right play. We struggled greatly in our last war once whoever it was we were fighting had 0 dspecs themselves, but 15-20 EPA with 4 pts of defense on their leets, and could send out .5 EPA and 4x our 0 defense guys. Because then they were left with like 50-60 DPA, that our 0 dspec orcs could only 2x. After a round or two of that, their chained guys ended up much larger in NW, so our orcs were only able to 2x AND doing it out of networth range, which means they were effectively dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhaN
I was banned by Dharan because i forgot to remove locations.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhaN
But dont worry. Dharan will get waved for that! No joke..
Did simians come oop dicing tho? They came oop looking to war a top kd, so maybe thats their reason for choosing merchs i guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
I still dont see how merchant is better than cleric for avians (unless youre specifically going for a top ~1-3 finish).
well Cleric can't get a 1-3 finish, so thats why I'd say merchant is better, but it depends on your goals. The other reason is like I said before, if an avian merchant and an avian cleric kingdom fight, usually the avian merchant kingdom will have a lot more offense and defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuhaN
I prefer to start with 30% more offense and defense opposed to losing 3% less of it per hit (Average troop loss is about 6% on offense or defense, and cleric saves you half of that). Takes 10 waves for the two to be equal, and wars often don't last 10 waves.
Flogger dont forget that Simians was larger then BiO in the start and we were same networth as Rage was. We wanted merch to be in range of the very top.
We waved and warred #1 KD that was HoH. We CFed BiO+rage since we knew they would fight each other. Being at 3rd position we warred #4 wich was Fratzia and won there also. It would not have been hard to whore. We had the CFs we needed and everyone else came almost daily and asked for one. We went merchs so we could war abs and mexico side. The recovery time is very important. We had some orcs setup and such last ages and after 3-4 top wars you lost stamina and you been outpumped. This age is different.
We can probably keep warring in the top this entire age.
We are warring FTW here.
Sanc started at 89k acres
Simians started at 85k acres
At this moment when i post Simians is 85k and they are 84k.
Flogger explained our situation very good earlier.
The networth gaps is a problem. We will see in what way we will handle it all.
So a merchant will have 30% more off/def? Even so, how does this help a mid sized war kd, as kds generally just war other kds around their networth? Itd be pretty suicidal to war an overpumped kd at the same size as urs.
This may be irrelevant for simians tho, as theyre a top 10 kd.
Ah good stuff anri, answered my questions pretty much. Thanks troll king ;)