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The bet and the payment conditions were separate. Kuhan put $100 on AMA, Proteus accepted. The third party crap was only to work out payment, the bet is still a bet. There was no "if, then" condition that if a third party did not hold the money then there is no bet. I don't know why we're still talking about this. Everyone knows Proteus punked out and his word has no value, so we should just move on.
Not only him, me as well, and you can't call me a Proteus-fan...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Okey csarmi this is how it went down
KuHan
ProteusQuote:
Paypal $100. I bet Elit's kd wins.
U in? How do i know u will pay if u lose?
As you can see, the bet was accepted. Then started the discussion of how to recieve the payment. It doesnt say that there was a need for a third party to make the bet valid.Quote:
Kuhan yes I am in. If you want we can both transfer our money to ASF and he will pay the proceeds to winner.
Does this really need to be discussed anymore?
Proteus won't pay up and we all know why. Because he doesn't want to.
If you don't want to follow through on your bets, don't make bets.
sloppy
if I did such a "bet", I'd pay (even though I wouldn't "have to")
Don't bet what you can't afford!
It appears that ASF was the condition for Proteus' acceptance and you did not post whether KuHan accepted that condition there for making the bet null and void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Okey, post me where Proteus states that its his condition cause all I can see is that Proteus accept the bet and then answer Kuhans question.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
This. Are some of you just purposely acting dense? This is as clear as anyone can make it, so if you still dont get it, copy and paste what DHaran just said into MS Word, set it to font 48 with BOLD, print it out and read it to yourself until you get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
It's that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntico
And if all you armchair lawyers can stand aside and listen to a REAL lawyer, that would be good. He doesnt come to your job and tell you to take the sailor's cock out your mouth, so I would suggest you don't tell him how his job works either.
I just wants the real story brah. $100 is a lot of money to lose your honour (if there was any) over.
Woah I see the genius in Kuhan now. ASF can never show his face again in public or it will cost Proteus $100. This is some next level sh1t.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Hey what does bad faith mean in legal terms? Bearing in mind this was a gentlemen's bet, not even a contract (but Proteus chose to bring contract law in).
I borrowed the sailor's cock line from Jimmy Carr. Genius, he is.
wow.. simply wow.. spent the last 2 hours in reading and laughing to this thread.. unless Proteus is still in school, trying to finish his extended diploma while supporting his family at the same time, i dont see why in the world cant he just pay off the 100$.. it would have taken the same time and effort to come up with that money rather than coming up with legal and technical excuses for why he should not pay up.. i mean, he already admitted defeat when he lost the bet, why the hell would he risk and sacrifice his honor and position accumulated throughout the years amongst the forum members or utopian players in general all for a mere 100$...???
i cant think of anything else than putting Proteus in a scenario like i described earlier on... pm me if you want a part time job, but i'm not sure if i can trust you tho =(
Kuhan are you "Evil Wizzard" ingame? I've seen this guy take #1 province with dwarf. I'm pretty sure that that is who he is. I wouldn't bet against him. Pay up.
Even if I'm wrong about who the dude is, Proteus took the bet! the only argument that I can see from Proteua is that there is no legal way to make him pay.
Jimmy Carr is funny. He is no Ricky Gervais though.. Hitler interprets Nietzsche.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
I tried to bet credits. Strangely no one wanted to win them!
If Cats/Pewpew war anyone wanna bet 50 credits on it?
I wanna put my money on pewpew
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodz
I'll bet you utopian credits, but I'll add a few stipulations which I won't go into detail with you atm but the catch is if I win you have to pay me and don't expect me to pay up if I lose. You still keen?
In the gambling world we call that doing a Proteus :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Syntico
That's insulting. I am being upfront about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
I bet you a hundred dollars that you're a big kookah
technically, since the Jolt server already holds the credits in escrow, would a credit bet bypass the "K" ?
this is proteus:
http://www.lememe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gif
Proteus, the question is not whether in law you had a legally binding contract or not lol. There's a pretty slim chance Kuhan would have any success in a civil action. But that doesn't mean you didn't make a verbal agreement and perhaps by some personal or moral obligation you ought to pay him. there's no doubt about the essence of what you had in mind at the time you were talking big.
oh come on now tetley.. we're just getting into this trolling phase of Proteus's case (damn it rhymed), so dont drag it back to the discussion phase..
You guys are all idiots. It is capable of being a binding contract. For a binding contract to be formed all you need is an offer, an acceptance and consideration. All of the 3 conditions are satisfied and hence, contract= binding. Ok don't take my word for it, go look up the Restatement of Contracts yourself or your relevant domestic legislation OR better yet, just consult devolution, silva and migz.
Offer: Proteus: i Bet $100 to anyone in this forum that Sanc beats AMA
Acceptance: Kuhan: I call it!
Consideration: Money ofc
End story. Condition of ASF being contactable is not in the contract. ASF is a suggested method of payment and not capable of voiding a contract.
PS: I would post cases myself but I cba to look up californian caselaw on contracts especially since there is already the restatement of contracts being authority for it and its Saturday night.
PSS: In case you were wondering why it is California law that applies, if you can't answer it, go back to law school and relearn why.
And one last thing, Nice try on the gentleman's bet. The original intentions were serious enough to backfire on you.
The logical reason would be that it's because where Kuhan's forum profile says he lives BUT, as with all things relating to the internet this is fuzzy at best. They way I see it there are 3 possible jurisdictions,Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
1: California where kuhan is.
2: the location where the bet took place(which relating to the physical world would be wherever the server the bet was made of resides(whether the bet first happened on utonet or here I don't know).
3: wherever Proteus resides.
It's extremely doubtful that unless proteus is a resident of the United States that a california court could actually bring jurisdiction on a foreign national, much less prompt said citizen to appear before the court to relieve judgement, if anyone appeared it would most likely only be to dispute the court having jurisdiction.
It is far more likely if you want a successful outcome to take the procedure to wherever proteus resides.
Now $100 is far too little to even bother with any of this over so this is all just speculations anyway.
I demand he is bought to California to face Arnies justice.
Would it be California because that's where Kuhan lives or would it be where the servers are based because that's where the bet was 'made'?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
pheonix and others defending proteus - a public verbal agreement (it was in public) is as close to a handshake as you can get
i recently (few ages ago now) made a private bet with lightning about the results of our war, when we lost, i paid up and sent her the agreed items of the bet for losing. There was no middle man, there wasnt even a public declaration on forums or anything so it was even less "valid" in your eyes than this situation. But i paid. Why? cause a bet is a ****ing bet, if you have the balls to make the bet, you better pay up when you lose otherwise your a lying scamming person with no substance.
and no thats not my opinion its fact.
proteus owes kuhan 100$
Syntico, J.D. has already checked in. Listen to the man, will ya.
FinalFantasy, my brain just exploded.
Incorrect. A contract is finalized wherever the acceptance is. Where the offer is made is irrelevant. Wherever Proteus lives is also irrelevant. As long as Proteus can be served you can sue him and get judgement.
Citizenship is irrelevant when you sue in a Civil court. Just serve it.
Sure you can serve it if you find him but unless he lives in the US he will most likely not show up for court and the judge will hand down a summary judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
But then the problem starts, you will have a major pain getting his nation of residence to recognize the jurisdiction of the Californian court(and thus it's right to hand down a judgement) and if said nation don't recognize that the court has a right to hand down a judgement you will have no legal recourse to reclaim the money.
This is why nationality matters, not whether you can actually serve and sue someone of another nationality in civil court .
Generally no nation will recognize the rights of any court to hand down judgement other than it's own justice system with a few exceptions(and the major ones I know of are the European Union, the Scandinavian nations an(who have an agreement with each other separate from the one the EU requires between member nations) and the International war crimes tribunal in Hague(which all civilized nations recognize except the US(they have even promised to invade the Netherlands and retrieve any american the tribunal tries to bring proceedings against)).
Judgement from a US civil court matters very little to someone in say, Germany or Sweden, the US may be able to extradite someone to face major criminal charges but a petty civil charge they will simply ignore.
You got me there about extradition. Unless Kuhan magically lives in Nevada where there is a debtor's prison, Proteus is close to untouchable
ATTACK HIS CREDIT RATING!Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
:P
A good counter question is would Kuhan have payed. Or would he have said proteus never would have payed. KUHAN WANT TO BE ON SOMETHING!?
I prefer to bet in utopia credits, they seem to have no value to me! Despite costing me money!
KuHan has admitted in this thread that he would pay up if he lost, so hes given his "word" but as we can see with Proteus that isnt much worth these days apparently :P
I have no idea how credit rating works over in the US/Canada but at least here you have to show cause for it and as I said earlier no one is gonna care what a civil court in another country thinks, unless you secure a verdict against somone in their own country you have no way of getting to him legally.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodz
I think goodz was kidding
possibly but you never know ;)