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First war the enemy kd started a dragon and never send and didn't slay dragons, one flew away find some action else where. Second war enemy kd starts a dragon and after 36 hours still no sign of it but they did slay first dragon, only took 20 odd hours to slay. Flogger can you explain this new war method of using dragons?
Both kds had enough specs to slay in 3 times over and still have good def btw.
flogger:
Question regarding intel gathering. When you are going to be chaining down a halfer or another TM, it becomes increasingly difficult to get an SoM, whereas, an SoT is much easier to get. Many state you can use an old SoM with a new SoT to calculate what they have home by subtracting away the armies out... but I cannot see how they can consider tell if TW is factored into the SoT or not which would throw off the defense calculated.
i.e. Taking an SoT would give you the overall defense and be able to calculate a DME based off the units and def... but if TW is on, that DME calculated from SoT would not be correct. How does one calculate accurate defense home with TW provinces (the above DME calculation works fine for any race taht doesnt have TW as an option) with a new SoT + old SoM.
I've checked Angel calculator and done my own calcs on halfers that have TW on first by using new SoT + old SoM and after getting the calculated values I have a halfer take his SoM where the value is not very accurate. Any ideas? Or are we stuck with having to get SoM's updated all the time when chaining down provinces with TW :/
You are overthinking things :)
SoT shows total defence and if you get an SoM you can calculate how much defense is out. (its raw numbers multiplied by def efficiency -> [4*elites+2*solds]*def. efficiency) for halfer (def eff. is on SoM)
The last number is stable so after each attack you can get a new sot and deduct that number.
Or if you are even lazier you can deduct Defense shown on first SoT from def shown on first SoM and have the same stable number.
Eh I dont think we are talking about the same thing here. Your way would not work with what I'm asking. If we are chaining a halfer... his DME changes as he is hit (goes up) so you can't take the DME off the SoM that is old as it is not true anymore. I can gather the correct amount of elites/soldiers/d specs by taking the new SoT and subtracting out troops away from old SoM... that still doesnt give you a way to calculate accurate defense home.Quote:
Originally Posted by skoyl12
New SoT will give you a calculated DME (through Angel or some other tool or hand calc), but that DME is just taking into account (total defense) / [(elites*4)+(soldiers*2)+(d spec*4)] so if they have TW on... that DME will be off so you can't just take the amount of defense home * calculated DME.
I wouldn't be needing to take an SoT if I can get their SoM since it's 100% accurate anyways... My scenario is that a halfer sends army out, you grab an SoM early on and then pursue to chain him down (so he will have some crazy tpa like 15-20 raw tpa as being chained). There is no chance you can grab a new SoM to see his updated DME/defense... so you grab an easier SoT but need to use the old SoM to calculate his defense home now.
putting random numbers
Defense before your hits from accurate SoT 100k. Defense home from SoM before any hit 70k. Based on what i wrote before defense out is 30k (modified). Lets assume initial OME was 110% and DME 125%. (from accurate SoM). Based on that 70k *1.04 breaks
You do 2 hits, some defense dies and DME raises. We dont care how many died and lets say DME raised by 5% (which is too much btw). When you get an accurate SoT lets assume it says 90k.
Now it interests us what happened with army out. On first SoM raw def out was 30k/1.25=24000 after the hits the defense out would be 24k*1.3 (new DME)= 31200
Now if you had a som it would show that you need 90k-31200= 58800 (*1.04 off course)
With my sugestion you will send 90k - 30k (def from first SoM) = 60k (*1.04 again)
You are oversending a little but you cant fail and because of the SoT every factor is considered (TW less forts maybe etc)
edit
This can fail is if you alter the defense out after the 2 hits. That can happen by ambush or NS. In that scenario the defense out will be smaller that the one calculated at start and you risk a bounce. The second scenario that it might fail is if your target runs huge amount of forts and his DME drops a lot from the hits.
orcs have racial bonus on gains. is there a need to invest high stacks in military science? they say its multiplicative, so i guess i benefit a less from me then?
SOT takes into account all relevant modifiers to defense. Why would you need a new som if their army out didn't change?
You are correct with regards to troops out. Where you run into issues when trying to calculate the exact army home as the target is being chained since DME changes. SOT does not display DME so you have to calculate it. Do they have TW up or not? Because that is not taken into the DME. So the value can be misinterpreted to give and inaccurate calc for army home.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
You can do as skoy said to just by subtracting out the defense calculated from the original SoM to make you not bounce... But I would rather be able to calculate exact army home because many times that extra 2-5k offense can be the difference between another multitap.
Btw my question is only for races with TW. All other races you can calculate DME accurately from SOT and use that to subtract the SOM values for exact defense home.
I have a question. I'm an attacker and just came out of war really fat. Doubled in size from around 1k to around 2k acres, but my military numbers are down from where I started. On top of that only 30% drafted (thanks to persistent T/M + growth). I don't have much in the way of econ buildings (about 10% banks, no arms) and am running low homes (currently down to about 3% since I started low and wasn't rebuilding them much in war). What are the best ways to 'recover' from being in a state like this?
For more on my specific situation I am undead warrior and our kd will be rebuilding for at least a week since some provs got hammered pretty good. Is a build swap worthwhile? I'm not planning on growing any time soon since I need to wait for some of the other attackers to catch up. I ended up reducing pay to minimum and swapping out some of the more war related buildings (GS, WT) for additional banks and some arms, since I basically need to draft and train an entire army. Was the build swap a good idea, or should I have just tried to ride it out to avoid the cost of swapping buildings around? If so, what % banks/arms would you build? Undead elites are stupid expensive and I figured we'd be in rebuilding mode for a while so that's why I ended up going with the swap. Thoughts?
Are you still in eowcf? If so, release soldiers and specs, set wages to 50% and make a build with lots of banks (and if needed guilds/armouries). Redraft soldiers after 48 hours (emergency and patriotism), retrain them about 19 hours before leaving eowcf and change build about 16 hours before leaving eowcf. You'll make a lot of gold and be war ready.
Yes, still EOWCF, although I'm more interested in what to do next time since it's a little late to turn back from the strat I've already chosen. I did end up setting wages to 50% and doing a small build swap. What is the logic behind release soldiers? I always thought they didn't even count towards military wages. Also not planning on releasing any specs. What is the logic behind releasing specs -- is that release o-specs so they can be retrained to elites? I'm not planning on anything like that until I'm fully drafted and trained... It seems counterproductive to eliminate military when I have so much left to train.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nim
The point of releasing excess soldiers/specs is that the can help repop your province faster to earn extra gold. Forget what it is, but it is something like 2.75 GCs per a peasant per a tick, without all those fancy mods :)Quote:
Originally Posted by marklar13
Definitely release soldiers, certainly offense specs could be released if you can retrain them to elites at a later date. As an attacker you should be able to as you can go pretty high banks/arms for CF. Defense specs is a whole different story. I don't like releasing too many because I have usually always made plenty of money for training, and liked my credits for use in war. Providing you won :)
Swapping is always a good idea, providing you have the time, but I assume most kingdoms take the full four days. Banks/Arms definitely as an attacker. Guilds to build wizards up if you gained a lot can be helpful.
Training time is 14 hours with IA up, build 14 with BB up.
A good rule of thumb during eowcf would be to release down to 30% draft (when you are max popped) and switch your buildings around to accommodate good training.
Put your buildings into something like:
8-9% farms
30% banks
25% arms
30% guilds
Those numbers can change around a bit depending on what you need more between training costs and wizzie pumping. Being a fat attacker after war you typically need both so I use the above %'s ? a few.
Use a drafting calculator www.k3ltic.com/utopia/drafter to calculate how much time you will need to get to the DR you need for training time (14 hrs before you leave eowcf with IA). Typically I will put in like 65% for the Draft Rate (with emergency + pat) which would put you around 70%+ when you come oow and be in good shape for hitting/war if you need. If your kd is going to go right into fort, then you can lower that amount so you have more time in max income.
This would typically be the best way to train the most you can as well as maximize your income. I usually leave eowcf with a good amount of surplus of gold no matter how large you are after war (unless I am having to explore).
Thanks for responses. I was at 30% draft when fully popped anyway to start eowcf so I guess releasing wouldn't have made a huge difference. My population and was pretty decimated from fireball and ms, but the eowcf birth rate bonus is huge. Sounds like people would be suggesting a larger build swap than what I did. I only swapped 15 or 20% of my land (added more banks and running 10 to 15% arms). I'd like to get to a wizard pump again at some point but I didn't want to try to do too much at once. At 1 WPA now, attackers are expected to be around 2 WPA for war in our kd.
I generaly release down to having no unfilled jobs. An employed pesant gives you 2.75 g/tic + modifiers. An unemployed peasent gives you 1/3 of that. You just need to runt he nubmers including cost to draft/train on how many tics it will take before releasing a soldier/spec/leet becomes a benefit instead of a cost. The othe benefit to releasing that is harder to quantify is the positive impact on BE.
Thanks. That was all really helpful info.
What Nim said
With these new potential changes, what do you see as a better core. Also what pers fits them best in a core type role.
Halfings or Elves.
Thanks in advance Flogger!
Core for a top kd or a 15-30th ranked kd makes a big difference. I just had to work 36h straight so haven't had time to really delve into changes. My guess is halflings will help you gain land/ A/T/Unbreakables more easily. Tact seems good on an elf if going the hybrid route with a lot of them. Clear sight will help and you'll be sped up, but you're probably best off running a bunch of mystics and trying to war kingdoms without much nightmare protection. Halfling is versatile, you could literally go with any of the personalities out there (yes I ran halfling war hero 2 ages ago and people seemed concerned with it) +50% TPA and immune to sapphire should be able to op most anything. You'd have 2.14x more TPA than your enemy before any mods or higher TPA (which halfling have the room for due to pop bonus). Just restricted to NS/riot duty with no prop. Not saying I'd run a kd based on them, but a few for riots/robbing other thief mages could be useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo