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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiedema
I ran 13 RTPA (Most of the wars, sometimes more)
5-6 RWPA
77% Draft
BE (80-85%)
30% Homes
5% Farms
25% TDs
5% Guilds
25% Towers
20% Forts
150% Wages on pre-war, 180% wages early war.
Had about 190-195 DPA.
Rogues and HA have lower Def then FA mate, + i really need high RTPA to break the enemy FA's ;)
-35℅ sci is crazy, it's a negative sage bonus. Sage was the most picked personality this age... Do people think UD race bonuses this age are that strong? I don't think they are, time will tell.
I have seen the 2nd post unless you didn't update the numbers with the text comment. Essentially all attackers (except dorf) have more offence to break t/ms. I never said anything about quadding t/m's I said double. A pure ospec UD army can break a t/m easy, now throw in say a conservative estimate of a 60/40 spec to leet army, you should be able to double a t/m when you get plague from your first hit. I can generate a lot of numbers (its what I do for a living) as well and ofc make them support my case (thats why numbers aren't great facts). I can tell you that from experience its been easier than ever to break t/ms and all your doing is making all attackers have more offence. If the idea is for them to run more D because they have more O, this is counter intuitive with current mechanics as t/m's can get rid of the defence of a prov VERY easily... and attackers will get chained its inevitable so... if your a 500 acre prov that can still break a t/m throw in a massacre then get get your easy max gains. Or you know shore up your defence and when you get chained you become useless and still fed on by t/ms.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
I think its fair to say that 180-200 dpa is normal T/M goal (for average players)... in the current age its also very easy to hit 220-250 opa. All your doing is making the opa go higher next age.
Fair enough on the formula, its basic example is misleading as you are aware.
It's easy enough to max sci now, sure you making it take a little longer and now giving sages less protection... how is this good? I should have said why they nerf not weak, so I apologise for that.
Dwarf sages where really good this age. But sage got nerf ed and dwarf lost cs. But it doesn't make dwarf worthless as a race. Just change up how they are used. As of right now undead is just crazy strong and no kingdom won't run at least some undead. Orc took a major nerf and is basically unplayable now. I am not one to complain but I don't understand the point of increasing offensive numbers every age. It doesn't make the game more fun or even have more strategy involved. I don't get it but I will adapt and work with anything.
My sims say otherwise. With max sci human barely overtakes undead. And then it's like a bit more off and QF vs -75% off losses, perma AD, plague. Not a hard choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
Agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhearted
Kingdoms are becoming more and more and more Attacker heavy since there is no point of playing TMs. Especially not with the runes shortage this age as well.
Get 18-20 attackers and 2 big TMs just to help with SoM/ SoT help on enemy tms early war and massacre kill the tms 1x and 4x enemy attackers GG...
8 Def as an HA
12 off as an ORC/ UD today...
I mean an Dwarf have higher Def with elits/ DSpec today and an Human.
Why you wanna go TM when Sages is about same in Magic/ THievery science as well :P
you don't need to chain a t/m into oblivion, just enough that they need to start attacking and forcing them to release so they can't do any more damage or receiving on off hits from chained attackers. Or you know just chain them from top to mid range so they can't ever be UB for the war and generate any sort of econ or protected acres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Must be nice to be in a KD that can LL that much, to be honest I haven't seen the many runes around in a long time (personally I think FB and NM is a far better use of runes but I probably don't know this game very well).
I'm assuming you play in growth KD's (FYI small % of people play here and these changes effect the entire population not just the elites). I think the most effective wave I've been apart of is taking down 3 attackers heavily on an opening wave (not common to do all war) If a KD is comprised of only a few t/m yes 3 for 1 is fair because once the other KD has no more t/m's they have no way to achieve any NW anchors and ability to control the top. We can throw out scenarios all day to suit our arguments do you want to ride the carousel with me for the rest of the day?
My instincts usually tell me not to compensate a race weakness with a personality strength, but my undead sage bell is ringing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
I've played longer than David :) it would be nice if people stopped ragging on the old Devs. You wouldn't still have a game without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Agree with Bishop here. Prior to us the game was run differently, but to assert it was run by rookies is very wrong. We are thankful for what the previous developers have done and are excited for the future of the game. There is no need to be negative towards the previous ownership. We are all about building a positive future, let's keep it that way.
So, after devoting 19 PPA (Sometimes more) to non-military roles, you complain that you cannot defend your land ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
Personally I think old devs where finally taking the game in the right direction. War based game with game mechanics to protect the warring tier which makes up 90% of the player base. New ownership time will tell but I think they are going in the wrong direction. Thing I don't get is why not just commit to war based game. If you had two servers a war based server and a growth based server. You would have probably 3k players in the war based server and maybe 300 people in the growth based server. War based server would probably attract alot more players also. Ask any war kingdom why they lose players. It's because they have to interact at some point with the growth tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
use your people to take runes and save them up(20% towers kd wide helps...and run production is up next age anyway). if the enemy is chaining your t/m you dont leave them completely solo to recover, help them semi survive Also semi chaining a bunch of t/m into the mid tier is a TERRIBLE option they will evetually become unbreakable it just takes longer and in the mean time u supercharger their tpa/wpa. my kd has OFTEN run feary rogues on just low enough def to tempt kds to do that. fearies job then all war is prop/retrain/ll. if i can keep 20% of your kd busy with a t/m' i dont care about i gain a massive advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerviper
Massacres dont exactly slow down a feary you semi chained. When u take a 7 raw to a 12 raw then what mass down to 5 raw with 6-7 hits? thats gonna stop a feary from proping an undead/orc whose grown 30%? doubtful.
my kd is a war kd we're currently #15 in land and have basically hovered in the 10-20 size all age...we sit in that size MOST ages. Last age we ran orc warrior +elf heretic and took down 5-6 attackers opening wave every war...we'd of taken more but with every person in the kd 5 taping if orc and 4 taping if elf we simply didnt have enough generals to take down more people. And your right trading 3 for 1 is reasonable your right if you only have 3-4 t/m's than taking them out is smart. But thats kinda the point if you want a pure t/m size them so they cant be taken out, or mix in hybrids that become a priority. The obvious direction the devs are going is that having 6-7 100% safe t/m's in each kd and then a bunch of attacker that barely matter isnt the right direction. If you want someone in your kd like below...well let me address thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Slayerviper
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
If your sole job is to break enemy t/m's AND have enough wpa to protect yourself than you should easily be double-tapable by attackers. Rogues in my kd ran 3-4 wpa and 7 tpa and filled their roll exactly as needed since we didnt go for pure t/m' oping. They mind you were able to stay single tap-able AND run enough offense that if/when chained they had offspecs to act as chain finishers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacky-T
If you want a t/m on 13 raw tpa and 5 raw wpa ANd u want them 100% safe from attackers whats the point if having attackers. you goal was to op enemy t/m's you run the risk of geting hit. otherwise if you can be safe whats to stop me from *****ing that i need 18 raw tpa to op you AND i also wanna be safe from attackers?
the orc resource loss penalty is brutal. Its way harsher than that -35% sci the UD have. the only thing that really really matters for a heavy attacker with big offense in war is land so they have the pop space to keep attacking. whats the point in their +gains bonus if they get to use the bonus for a couple of hits than they take 30 attacks with the resource loss penalty. honestly id go as far to say orc would be unplayable with this penalty. it would be 100% ud attaker age.
Yes i complain ;) Was great usage :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Quacky-T
14 + 6 = 16-17 PPA that i could use for Def :) Great to use and with our setup helped us out to win every war this age and the last 4-5 the age before that in the end as well.
Persain
"This" :)
How many wars have you won in a row ? :) It's all about a teamwork, if the HA's can break every enemy TM early war, you have to pick do 1x on the HA or deep chain the attackers with 220-240 OPA :)
With higher early RTPA as well, you gain more / op with prop as well and lower the NWPA.
True i am greatful for your work Bishop, just sometimes you don't listen to the public and it's been no alpha testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Since we are the alpha testing every age with 0% tries in an test server.
Exampel the last two ages with the science.
Or the HA's been useless for 10 ages.
Human
Bonuses
+30% Income
REMOVED: Immune to Income Penalties
+10% homes coverage
Penalties
-15% Spell Success (down from -10%)
+50% Rune Costs (down from +100%)
Spell book: Greater Protection, Quick Feet
Elite: 10/5 (down from 11/5, 1000gc, 9.5NW
Orc
Bonuses
+20% Battle Gains (down from +25%)
Free draft
+30% Enemy casualties when attacking (up from +20%)
Penalties
+10% Resource Losses when attacked (down from +20%)
REMOVED: +15% Military Casualties
-25% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA) (down from -10%)
Spell book: Fanaticism
REMOVED: Blood Lust, Reflect Magic
Elite: 13/2, 900gc (down from 1000 gc), 11.5NW (up from 11)
Undead
Bonuses
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Attacks convert Offensive Specialists into Elites
+1 Offensive Specialist strength (down from +3 off spec strength)
REMOVED: Defensive losses automatically convert to soldiers(Permanent Animate Dead)
Penalties
Basic Thievery (Intel Operations Only)
No Elite Training
REMOVED: -35% Science Effectiveness
Spell book: Town Watch
Elite: 15/1, 11NW (up from 10.5)
UD should be playable as something else than just attacker (realistically, current change UD only allows for WH/Tact/Warrior). People should have a challenge trying to play UD/sage, UD/heretic or even UD/rogue-mystic if they want to. -35% sci effects make these 4 options IMPOSSIBLE.
Avian
Bonuses
-35% Attack travel time (up from -25%)
Cannot be ambushed
+75% Birth Rate (up from +40%)
REMOVED: +1 Offensive Specialist strength
Can Train Elites with Credits at the cost of 2 credits/elite
Penalties
REMOVED: -5% Combat Gains
Cannot Use War Horses
Spell book: Greater Protection
Removed: Fanaticism, Blood Lust
Elite: 11/4, 775gc, 10NW
Increasing their strengths, removing some of the "bland bonusses". Reducing offense and increasing speed. Avian is lightning fast but shouldn't be easily breaking fully turtled TMs (if you want that, run orc/UD). Playing with minus gains destroys a race (I experienced it when human had it).
Dwarf
Bonuses
+25% Building Efficiency (up from +20%)
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits to Raze Buildings
-50% Building Construction Time
REMOVED: +1 Offensive specialist strength
+1 Defensive specialist strength
Penalties
Can't use Accelerated Construction
+100% Food consumption
Spell book: Mystic Aura, Added: Quick Feet
Elite: 9/7 (down from 9/8), 750gc (down from 850 gc), 9.5NW
Dwarves need a reason not to run full elite. Ospec bonus is just an OOP thingy, and dwarves are already strong OOP due to free build.
Halfling
Bonuses
+10% Population
+35% Thievery Operation Success (TPA) (down from +50%)
-40% Thief cost (down from -50%)
+1 Stealth per tick
REMOVED: +2 Offensive Specialist Strength
Penalties
REMOVED: -5% Building Efficiency
-10% Birth Rate
Spell book: Aggression
Removed: Mage's Fury
Elite: 7/8 (up from 6/8), 800gc (up from 700 gc), 10.5NW
The BE nerf makes halfling/rogue hard, esp with TD coverage bonus cut to +50% from +100%. Increasing their thief cost and elite cost makes them slightly harder to fully pump (especially if you want full elite).
Faery
Bonuses
+40% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+40% Sabotage Operation Damage
+1 mana per tick (removed: in war)
+1 off spec strength
Penalties
-5% Population
-10% Income
Spell book: All Racial Spells and Tree of Gold/Mages Fury
Elite: 5/10, 850gc (down from 1050 gc), 11.5NW
Faery will still not be a very potent attacker, but at least has some buff to its offense so it can ambush/exchange some hits. Having fae on 5/10 6/0 makes it very dimensional and just a pure turtle. I feel Faery needs MF more so than halfling.
Elf
Bonuses
+2 Defensive Specialist strength
+30% Spell Success (down from +35%)
+25% Spell Duration (instead of damage)
+50% Rune Generation
-35% Military Casualties
Penalties
+50% Military Wages
Spell book: Pitfalls, Invisibility, Fools' Gold
Elite: 8/7, 800gc (down from 900 gc), 9.5NW
Fae is the damage dealer, elf is the tanky duration TM. I like Elf as it is, can run a range of different perses and still be viable.
Personalities
The Cleric
-40% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Immune to The Plague
Access to Greater Protection, Animate Dead
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Heretic
Wizards do not die on failed spells
Thieves do not die on failed operations
Successful spell casts get 35% of rune cost refunded
+20% Spell Success
+20% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness.
Access to Nightmares and Blizzard
Starts with +100 Wizards and +200 thieves
Access to Revelation
The Mystic
All Guilds are 100% more effective
+75% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity, Revelation
Starts with +400 Wizards
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are 50% more effective (please define again, is it effects or coverage?)
+100% Thievery Science Effectiveness (up from +75%)
Access to Gluttony
Access to Revelation
Starts with +400 thieves
The Sage
Protect 50% of scientists on abduct attack (up from 30%)
Scientists are 30% more effective (up from 25%)
Increase base Scientist spawn rate by 30% (up from 25%)
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 50% extra scientists (up from 20%)
The Tactician
-20% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Warrior
+10% Offensive Military Efficiency
Enhanced Conquest range
+ 1 General
Access to: Bloodlust (spell effect changed to: +5% own OME, +10% enemy casualties, +10% own casualties).
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The War Hero
+100% Honor Effects (down from +125%)
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Added: -66% training time
Increase honor gains by generating honor in all land attacks (in or out of war)
30% higher honor generation in war
Access to War Spoils
REMOVED: Pitfalls, Fanaticism
REMOVED: +10% Battle Gains
REMOVED: Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks (increasing this amount by ~20%)
Starts with 800 elites
Normally some provs bank maybe 200K-300K (anything more screams LS and laugh) on a prov and its very easy to burn those up... and yes steal the enemies runes, they can do the same to you remember tactics happen in real time and don't only apply to one KD. People need to run more towers this age due to nerfs but they cry about building space... and pending on Kd strat running a but tonn of towers can be more of hinderance pending on a KD makeup. Usually when a t/m is focusing all their energy on LL it just means they are wasting their resources not damaging the enemy (also draining the entire KD of runes which is a huge waste) on noes you took some acres off a fat attacker :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
I dunno about you but we've fought bank type t/ms and dropping them to half their size was crippling as it compromises a KD's strat they suddenly don't have the top prov strength they would normally abuse econ wise. it was also just an example that there are more than one way to damage t/m and a KD composition without your chaining to 500 acre example (which is dumb imo). If done remotely right the t/m should be hittable all war by chained provs, let me know how that prov is doing after 4-6 massacres it don't matter what they were at they become a shell. Again throwing scenario's, you say 20% of a KD pure focus I disagree on this needed attention with proposed changes all it takes it eac attacker to 1 hit on the t/m(s) then 1-2 max gains on another attacker(s), your not really diverting that much KD focus when you suddenly have lost 1-2 very much needed province in the long term war (I assume wars last longer than min time). So your all for propping when the province is already overpop? Interesting.
Good on you for the 5 provs every time. Makes me wonder if you bully KD's that had no chance or are very lucky when it comes to getting easy wars. Elf heretics were OP last age though.
This is another good point. And it's even worse with science basically a given constant rather than a deep and interesting dimension to the game. A Rogue previously might have chosen to invest more in thievery science and so exploit his advantage. Now sages and rogues will both max thief sci and then retire to the sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
The new science system is really dumbed down. One of the things that I always loved about Utopia was science; it might have been broken in some ways, but the new system removes everything I liked.
.65*1.25=0.8125Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Wasted personality.
I like this a lot more +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
we're currently at 12, would be closer to 25 but we had one bad age where i tried to hybrid undeads lol. Anyway thats fine you use teamwork so do we, thing is our kd ran hybrids all this age and your halfer would have been barely breakable as you designed it that way. any kd facing u with pure attackers would/should be able to break you as your running low def JUST so u can op t/m's. And see the thing is the intial reasoning you brought out your prov was qqing that u didnt have enough def. i.e.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
i.e. like age 20 or so with an 8/1 +15 pop orc and a 4/6 feary, 4/5 halfer, and 5/5 elf? go back to that number and lets see assuming 15% pop science andQuote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
age 20
20% homes 4ppa, 4 wpa, 7 tpa=>~16 pop on def or 80-96 raw def
+15% pop 0% homes, 4 ppa, 3 wpa, 2 tpa, 8 dspec=>16 epa or 128 raw.
age 71
20% homes 4ppa, 4 wpa, 7 tpa=>~16 pop on def(-1.5 for fairy) or 128-145raw def
0% homes, 4 ppa, 3 wpa, 2 tpa, 8 dspec=>11.75 epa or 152.75 raw.
so offense has gone up?
I would like to propose that you set the limit of provinces for each KD to 22 provinces per kingdom. It will remove the immediate disadvantage many KDs have that are less than 25 provinces without dismantling any KD cores.
I hate agreeing with Bishop, but he's absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Whether you agreed with the things they did or didn't do is irrelevant now. They carried the torch from one point to another and we still have Utopia because of it. In my opinion there have been some decisions made that probably cost a large part of the player base, but had Mehul just shut the doors on the game so many years back...that wouldn't be a better option.
I used to play a game called Paintball.NET. It was a simple, cheesy, fun as hell game. But it had a small following and couldn't have been profitable. They didn't have somebody to pick up the reigns like we've had here. I consider myself fortunate that Utopia hasn't met the same fate, even if some of the decisions have led to a loss of the playerbase.
Yes, I'm sure we'd all like to see tens of thousands of players again. And maybe we will. But be thankful for what you've got.
Bishop might have a problem listening to the public (read: opinions he doesn't immediately agree with) but the things you mention have nothing to do with him the way I understand it. He's a moderator, not a dev.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathlyric
Sounds like an experiment. I have something in mind ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Thank you for the continued sculpting Dave & Jeff. I usually don't offer suggestions, but I'll take a hard look and see if anything strikes me.
Edit: on reflection I think humans need a little more pizazz. I was thinking a tweak to stables/horses to reflect the powerful cavalry humans tend to be associated with in both fantasy and historic reference.
I got no problem with Bishop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum
He was a perfect fit for this crowd and did what he had to do to maintain order and some semblance of civility with very annoying people.
He should be proud of the job he did.
I like Bishop. He provides extra challenges by putting us on difficult islands each age, making me 100% plague susceptible, increasing spell failure (apart from ToG, oddly enough I dont think I failed ToG once this age) and allowing one of our enemies to sit in vm for 2 months :D
Trolling is part of this game, perhaps the most important right now. and no one trols like Bishop can ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elixer
My revision. Will go into more depth in case some people miss the purpose of changes.
Undead- At first glance it seems very strong, but it balances out. Off specs are easy to ns so controlling their offense will be easier and not dependent on chains. AD could assist in overpop, otherwise it's a strong tool for training others because first 48h of war the AD will have good soldier returns, falls off more once undead are chained and have less to kill. Unless a kd takes the time to pump elites oow or is able to get them in war, their offense will stay similar to orc so its not all powerful. Being chained is their strongest point atm. Once they are down, and if you have converted a good amount of elites, you will have the best offense for chained provs, unless you go less offense to stay off land defense(don't get caught army home ;)). Wouldn't change anything. I think they are good for whoring because they could be a bit more nw efficient for offense.
Human- Meh. they aren't very good for warring or whoring in my opinion. If left alone they can provide income and turtle power(slightly), but fireballs are pretty easy to cast on them along with shelling from ops and new combat gains formula.
Dwarf- Good econ turtle. Has decent versatility for the most part, mostly for defending against ops/attacks.
Orc- They are a trap. I'd make the losses go to either defense or offense, or lower it a bit and make it for defense and offense. Currently they are very frail, especially in a hostile where you can hit them army home. Anon will be a must if losses stay as is, otherwise it will be extremely easy to kill their offense. Very few reasons to run orc.
Avian- imo best attacker race for warring along with undead. Training elites(and specs?) with credits gives it good versatility when chained or left alone. Capable of being shelled ofc, but that happens regardless.
Elf- Best turtle imo. harder to chain now with -losses. Can afford to grow some since they have the +wpa. Vulnerable to rogues as usual so nothing out of the ordinary. The +wages are going to be the hardest part for elves. Will mean players will have to micro a bit more or run more defense instead of elites to keep army in order.
Faery- Fair changes. +sab damage will be the biggest bonus for next age due to increase in offense specs from undead(since they will be most played attacker still). Increased elite defense and lower pop evens out. Glad they lost CS, way to powerful on faery.
Halfling- would't change anything, even though the +ospecs strength is kinda lame. Unless there are few mystics and/or elves they won't have the pop to be any sort of a/t effectively.
Science change is needed, thank you.
Pers- they are about the same as normal.
Gains- will be interesting to see how effective it will actually be.
As for your goal to change the game from super offense and playing more defensive, you have succeeded. Hybrids, while they will take a beating right at the start of war, will prevail in drawn out conflicts. With undead offense being controllable with means other than hitting armies home and deep chaining, hybrids will be able to fight back much better now and not rely solely on chaining. Orcs are extremely easy to control now. A few hits army home in hostile and their offense is gone, plus ambushing. Add in stealing horses on both of these and they wont be able to use their bonuses as well. So a kd of mostly hybrids can actually out play heavy hitter cores now, will require micromanagement ofc. Reason I feel avian will be the best attacking race is because of its versatility. They will ofc be peon controlled and such but what fat attacker isn't, but they have a more stable offense compared to undead(nonchained) or orc because they cannot be bushed and ops don't effect elites as heavily. They can also hold armies at times to slow chains more, speed helps with lining up armies in the right way. Imo a good kd of hybrids will dominate heavy undead/orc attacker cores. Mystics, as from this age, are still useless imo. Only thing that really made mystic good this age was CS, the +wiz production for everyone didn't help either as mages have to run 9+ raw wpa in order to mage effectively. No cs makes them huge targets now so kds will need a good amount of mystics or no mystics. Rogue will reign supreme in terms of t/m ability, good to have a mix of halfling and faery for the raw power and damage.
All in all I like changes currently. This really adds in more strategy when it comes to hostile/warring. And as long as you have halfling rogues you'll be able to control the t/m side and not have to focus so much on chaining t/m provs in order to disable them, which will free up space for hybrids since you wouldn't need hits on t/m to control them.
This is a bit incomplete, but i am pressed for time. hopefully it helps though.
im liking the revisions thus far...i might even consider not retiring after this age at this point. i still think ud is VERY strong though. i know people are stating otherwise and such..and i agree with them 100%...but fact is...super powered elites...free training of elites..easy to do as active attacker..no food needed..lowered losses.. plague spread and immune..thats alot of huge perks. sci negative hurts..and thievery..but its nothing they havent gotten through in the past. to me the biggest thing about ud..and to me one of there greatest assets is plague. 9 times out of 10 its hell of a lot easier spreading it than curing it..and getting plague really can ruin your day in wars. i know plague isnt something new..and such..but to top on top of plague massive elites and such..to me is overkill. plague..either you get lucky and cure in 3 casts..rarely happens or you cure in 30 casts..or it disappears in 1 tick..or it lasts 24 ticks. curing it with ops..wish it were as easy as spreading it.
I know plague bugs a lot of people, and I usually take undead or cleric(war hero in ages past) but when I do run a non-plague immune province I tend to ignore plage. Particularly when facing undead core I don't cure plague via NB.
I never tell others how to run their province, but I notice when we have a rune shortage and folks asking for runes to cure plague. This is a strategic benefit to the undead core and it comes down to deciding if plague is worse than offensive ops. It's an individual decision IMHO. Yes, it's almost worse than tanking a dragon. :-)
Btw @ devs. I like the science change to food science.
I'll refer back to my suggestion that Hospitals decrease chance of catching plague rather than chance of curing plague each tick. That would be a huge counter and worthwhile imo.
I wish I would see someday new and different stuff implemented to increase the strategic aspect of the game.Every age its pretty much the same thing with adjustments on the races and personalities with the occasional mechanic changes but all in all its pretty much the same.
Find the best suited race/pers for cores and t/ms and your good to go and when it comes to wars there`s little u can do with a "fail" setup when it comes to strategy in that regard.I feel like for the most part there are little tactical options available and everything is relying on a KD`s ability to communicate,organize and execute aside from composition.
So many people complaint about UD 15/1.
Realistically they will have 10 epa max. Added to this they will probably run maximum 4 ospa to maintain 8dspa and 7 pop space for thieves/wiz.
(10*17+4*11)*1.5 = 321 opa. All leet and spec fully mounted.
This is also 58 dpa army in without mods so say ~ 75 dpa max.
That is eaily tripleable by almost all attacking races army in!
You fear the UD breaking tm's with 321 opa? Let them and watch the UD have 1 army out anoned get chained to the ground. Tm's aren't supposed to be unbreakable.
Or do the math of a faery TM.
16 epa. 5tpa 8wpa = 29 pop space same as UD.
(16*10)*1.55 = 248 dpa.
So to hit a faery an UD has to use almost all off just to break at equal size and if they do leave them opened to being 4x by all attacking races and 5x by warriors.
Ppl need to stop whinging. Yea it's a huge off but look at the drawbacks and how easily you can destroy them if they choose to chain a TM.
I like bart's suggestion on orc, ud, elf, rogue, sage and warhero
Heeeeey how about that smack in the face orcs just got! Give them bloodlust, then add another 15% losses on top of that! Shame to force a building on a race, 30% hospitals or you're out of the fight after day one. No point to choosing orc with its dead last sustainability now. How hard is it to not go to an extreme to make a simple fix? Oy, poor orc, you'll finally get your shot at the bottom of the race breakdown...
Does Orc have to be OP all the time? They have the best initial offence output (as UD will never quite match until later on in a war due to conversions) but are actually susceptible to being hurt more so than usual. Maybe a slight Orc nerf is more of an issue because UD is so strong... maybe knock UD a notch or two then the orc downfalls won't seem so bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
I like how people assuming t/m's and attackers are always on the same size... you do know that there are generally bigger attackers than TM's and these changes enables big attackers to not only hammer a t/m easier but still make additional hits on attackers for acre intake. As usual spout all of our scenario's that suit our view points... anything can be countered and anyone can be destroyed easy. I find t/m's are easier to drop more than ever... now its even easier (been playing since age 50). It should require effort, not the half assed methods of today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty87
In the last couple of ages when I did play it was easy to drop 2-3 tms in war and that was with a smaller attacking core and yes "losing" all our attackers didn't result in war losses. Most people are so short sighted on short war win strategies... Don't even get me started on bounce wave tactics and UD ffs....anyways beating a dead horse. I'm done.
I'm all for a proper nerf to orcs, but this was extreme and reckless. Kinda like orcs themselves though! Ha!
But seriously, what sense is in 30% greater military losses AND extra resource loss AND a thievery penalty? Orc gets wonderful initial output, but then fall flat and they do it to themselves, don't even need to be chained or opped. Just let em attack a couple times.
Undead
Bonuses
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Attacks convert Offensive Specialists into Elites
Defensive losses automatically convert to soldiers(Permanent Animate Dead)
+3 Offensive Specialist strength
Penalties
Basic Thievery (Intel Operations Only)
No Elite Training
-35% Science Effectiveness (remove)
Add: no access to anon
Spell book: Town Watch
Elite: 15/1, 10.5NW