Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

y'all realize how warped that all sounds to anyone not in that select circle right? an honor kingdom loses honor, demands honor from honor kingdom that committed an offence...land whore kingdom offers honor instead, deal gets accepted while monarch(Parth? just a guess here) is offline...

honor kingdom gets razed into war, gb commences on opponents before any investigation even, alliance waves opponents continously while honor kingdom runs massacres and whores more honor.

please correct me if I made any mistakes in this summary

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No, we didn't (yet, I assume, as I don't really log in much I might be dead), I guess the remains of ED is just too ghetto.

ED had about 5 players doing leadership last age and Ted is original founder, so they were well placed to make a decision regarding the outcome. As Zauper mediated he'd be in a better place to advise how talks went, but from what I was told after the fact ED didn't get very much choice regarding the offer made from "Fair Play", we wanted honour from FS (who instigated the GB) but it was refused, so I'm not sure how FS were punished in anyway.

Regardless of this situation, last ages situation, or whatever other scenarios there are, the fact remains that a large portion of the leadership of "top KDs" are just abject hypocrites who'll use any excuse and chance to ****play people and get what they want. From using a message from "ABS leadership" to GB a KD and make them not compete all age, to GBing a KD then running to friends the next age, to having nothing else to do in the game than GB smaller KDs using unproven accusations. Have seen a lot of scummy actions over the ages in utopia, but not many compare to BB/Pyro/FS over the last 2-3 ages, though I guess that's how the game goes when there's less than a handful of strong KDs left in the game.

The more and more i read, the more astounded and confused I get.

The only thing that makes any sense is what Sheister said. "Power is right." At least people know where they stand.

How did FS get punished? They were already being waved and had lost quite a bit of stuff. The issue is not what had already happened to FS, but that Pyro had taken some of that honour back. ED decided they wanted their honour back, which was the concern, and because of their history they wanted to punish FS as much as possible so of course they'd suggest it all come from FS. Eventually they decided as long as the honour came back from somewhere it would be acceptable. Yeah it's an awkward situation when you have resources changing hands in different directions. FS took it in the behind publicly on top of getting waved multiple times already. Pyro took some lashes publicly for helping without knowing history. and BB, because of their advising role, took some responsibility for it and decided they'd give up land/honour/resources for their actions. You think getting waved for free ~3x means nothing to a kingdom? Even if you're not fighting for honour, doesn't your hard earned honour and resources matter? You think taking a taunt banner that you're their property for a few days while getting whacked constantly is easy? You're taking a straight up farming. Almost all the whining I see on the forums has to do with one side feeling helpless to stop another from taking their ****. Needless to say, the BB players were not at all happy with this but they accepted it after an explanation because they had no choice.

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Originally Posted by lampost

The more and more i read, the more astounded and confused I get.

The only thing that makes any sense is what Sheister said. "Power is right." At least people know where they stand.

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I completely, understand. I used to try to make sense of things in terms of fairness and justice and so on.

Now I just let go and let it all happen....

Much less angst that way.

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Originally Posted by silverfox

No, we didn't (yet, I assume, as I don't really log in much I might be dead), I guess the remains of ED is just too ghetto.

ED had about 5 players doing leadership last age and Ted is original founder, so they were well placed to make a decision regarding the outcome. As Zauper mediated he'd be in a better place to advise how talks went, but from what I was told after the fact ED didn't get very much choice regarding the offer made from "Fair Play", we wanted honour from FS (who instigated the GB) but it was refused, so I'm not sure how FS were punished in anyway.

Regardless of this situation, last ages situation, or whatever other scenarios there are, the fact remains that a large portion of the leadership of "top KDs" are just abject hypocrites who'll use any excuse and chance to ****play people and get what they want. From using a message from "ABS leadership" to GB a KD and make them not compete all age, to GBing a KD then running to friends the next age, to having nothing else to do in the game than GB smaller KDs using unproven accusations. Have seen a lot of scummy actions over the ages in utopia, but not many compare to BB/Pyro/FS over the last 2-3 ages, though I guess that's how the game goes when there's less than a handful of strong KDs left in the game.

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Last age it was proven that leadership in the #1 kd sent someone at #2. Logs are there if you want them. It was a council member and all diplo to make reparations for it failed so it went to a conflict. Yeah it was messy. Most things that aren't 1 v 1 are. I was in BB and wanted a diplomatic solution but Emeriti just flat out said no to all offers. The only offer they wanted was to try to give some stuff back that would repair some of the damage so they wouldn't have to give up their age. Problem was there was a disagreement as to what repairing the damage actually meant when it came to resources and lost time pumping in post-war.

You think that Zauper and others would be hitting into that war if the accusations were not proven? Just because they don't share their proof with you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They don't have to share their proof either, this isn't a court of law. If you know Zauper at all, you know he does his due dilligence before making a move. The fact that he did make a move means what he has is 100% conclusive. Most of us are getting called scumbags, not really for the actions themselves, but because of the hate for FS directly. Anyone who could protect FS has to be a scumbag and as dishonorable as FS in their minds. I'd protect anyone from a gangbang if the same situation existed.

I said it to you and I will say it here also. Evidence does not count if you can't at least show it to the accused. And no, it doesn't matter how confidential it is. If you want to use it to justify a gb on a alleged gb then the accused should be given the opportunity to defend themselves.
Sure you don't have to as far as the game goes. But the accused and the community don't have to accept your verdict as valid either.
You read(assuming here) something that you interpreted as call for a gb. That may be true(I have my doubts). But it may not be. And you will never know, if you don't show the evidence. It doesn't have to be public. But everyone deserves the right to defend themselves.

I know some if not all do work hard to make this process as fair as possible, that definitely includes Zauper.
But anytime you don't have checks and balances it leaves too much room for abuse. Not saying you are abusing anything, just saying it makes blind trust hard to come by.

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Originally Posted by Pale

How did FS get punished? They were already being waved and had lost quite a bit of stuff. The issue is not what had already happened to FS, but that Pyro had taken some of that honour back. ED decided they wanted their honour back, which was the concern, and because of their history they wanted to punish FS as much as possible so of course they'd suggest it all come from FS. Eventually they decided as long as the honour came back from somewhere it would be acceptable. Yeah it's an awkward situation when you have resources changing hands in different directions. FS took it in the behind publicly on top of getting waved multiple times already. Pyro took some lashes publicly for helping without knowing history. and BB, because of their advising role, took some responsibility for it and decided they'd give up land/honour/resources for their actions. You think getting waved for free ~3x means nothing to a kingdom? Even if you're not fighting for honour, doesn't your hard earned honour and resources matter? You think taking a taunt banner that you're their property for a few days while getting whacked constantly is easy? You're taking a straight up farming. Almost all the whining I see on the forums has to do with one side feeling helpless to stop another from taking their ****. Needless to say, the BB players were not at all happy with this but they accepted it after an explanation because they had no choice.

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Pale, my question was how fs got punished for organising a gb. How exactly does this post answer that question? Your post just makes it sound more like the deal was 'forced' on ED, that they are in the wrong to dare challange your alliance and that you are somehow apologising for fs's actions. Nobody cares about some silly taunts, thats all a sideshow and a distraction from the issue. Maybe they wanted to get the honour from fs because they instigated the GB?
Your alliance organises a GB on ED and the prime instigator (fs) gets away with it! Why? I'll save you the response this time - because they could.

p.s so pyro who made the hits get punished in the forums and bb who only played an advisory role gave up honour and land? That seems a little unfair to you and protector. Maybe next time fs db's/gbs you can find a ghetto to pay for the land and honour taken? (sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

I know some if not all do work hard to make this process as fair as possible, that definitely includes Zauper.

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My experience also and would definitely second that.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

I completely, understand. I used to try to make sense of things in terms of fairness and justice and so on.

Now I just let go and let it all happen....

Much less angst that way.

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It's different if you're a kingdom hopper. I don't suffer angst, because I'm a rambler. Independent. A renegade running against the wind. The midnight rider. Heavy cruiser I tell you. Sunset superman....

You need to watch 'Harley Davidson & The Marlboro Man' and get that feeling back.

Watching FS try to school people on ethics is too hard on my gag reflex to follow this closely.

Watch out for FS vs SS in Age 67! Hopefully it will be under much fairer circumstances :)

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Originally Posted by lampost

Pale, my question was how fs got punished for organising a gb. How exactly does this post answer that question? Your post just makes it sound more like the deal was 'forced' on ED, that they are in the wrong to dare challange your alliance and that you are somehow apologising for fs's actions. Nobody cares about some silly taunts, thats all a sideshow and a distraction from the issue. Maybe they wanted to get the honour from fs because they instigated the GB?
Your alliance organises a GB on ED and the prime instigator (fs) gets away with it! Why? I'll save you the response this time - because they could.

p.s so pyro who made the hits get punished in the forums and bb who only played an advisory role gave up honour and land? That seems a little unfair to you and protector. Maybe next time fs db's/gbs you can find a ghetto to pay for the land and honour taken? (sarcasm)

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FS did not organize the double hostile and double hostiles are not gangbangs. Technically one of the members of BB did and that's why we took responsibility and alot of the blame/hits for it. We felt responsible for not looking into their history before advising someone to step in. As an isolated incident it definitely was inappropriate for ED to do what they did. However, after the history was revealed it was seen as turnaround. We apologized to ED for OUR mistake and gave them stuff as rep. You can argue whether this was forced or not but they did get reparations for being wronged. IMO, a double hostile wasn''t going to happen without a member of BB making that mistake and that's why we took the rap for Pyro hitting in. Our fault. So of course we're going to take the blunt of it. Everyone is so clouded by their hate for FS, nothing can possibly be anyone else's fault if it involves FS, so let's just take advantage of any situation to pisspound FS into the ground. You all are witch hunters at this point.

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Originally Posted by Pale

Everyone is so clouded by their hate for FS, nothing can possibly be anyone else's fault if it involves FS, so let's just take advantage of any situation to pisspound FS into the ground. You all are witch hunters at this point.

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Therr you go ... now u get it.

It's not hate, it's plain jealousy.

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Originally Posted by Pale

So that's what you're reading out of it? Are you serious? I've already said FS was at fault for bringing in help when it was revenge for the preious age. It's the other kds who are at fault for stepping in in a revenge situation. So both the caller and the called were wrong. You're either the biggest troll on the planet or unable to understand english if you think FS didn't know what they were doing. They weren't accepting turnaround as fair play for the previous age and that is their mistake. Where in any of my correspondence did I clear FS of blame here? Stop trying to twist my words.

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What is with dumb people, as soon as they dont know how to argue they go like "You dont know english!!!!!" or "You're troll!!" You sure you dont play in FS, thats kinda their tactic when "arguing". :) But thats what im saying FS was fully aware of what they were doing hence no mistake and nothing to learn from cause it was a deliberate act. And from what I can gather FS never did atone for their mistakes, they got away clean from everything as apparently BB took all the blame. Seems rather convient though.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

It's not hate, it's plain jealousy.

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Whats there to be jealous of, a kingdom that cant even keep 25 provs. ;)