New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

your post is essentially 100% wrong.
you really missed the point my man.... you can't acknowledge that theres tons of couples/whitelists that DO log for each other and might not even BE two separate people????????? really?

are you operating under the impression that i was saying this will fix 100% of cheating problems, ever?
since it only stops cheaters that were abusing the WHITELISTE system, and not cheaters using wireless cellphone network separate from your home network... it shouldnt be implemented? Stopping some cheaters > not stopping any cheaters.

"For those of us who have enjoyed playing with friends and family we know in person, this game is over. "

This change means you cant interact with your family member. ONE of your family members or friends. I've had plenty of my buddies in real life in my KD, all college friends, playing from seperate apartments. I've played in the same KD as my brother who lives 200 miles away... etc.

If you want to play with family and freinds in your KD, by all means invite them to your KD. theres no issue, the one person that is whitelisted with you has to make adjustments... adjustments that are in the best interest of the community at large.

"I'm sorry if you have been stuck in a crap kingdom."
My KD would steam-roll your KD, do your research first man, you seemed to have lots of FACTS but incomplete data!!?!?

Of course some whitelisted were actually cheaters, no doubt. But punish honests ppl because cheaters is a dangerous way.

Let's push the logic to extrem : some are multiying bu using 1) computer 2) I phone. No way to be caught.

So, banish I phone ppl or computers users to prevent it ?

What about those running one provo at work and the other at home ? Can't detect ...and those cheaters can nicely keep chaining same provo in war, send aid each other when honests ppl can't anymore ...don't see the improvment...

In fact those stupid enough to be honest and whitelisted their wife/husband ( my son in my case, gggrr, all those having teen at home know how it can be hard to SHARE something with them)) are surely punished ...cheaters, I'm not that sure.

EDIT: this was in response to Buyaku. repmes you have some thoughtful points, i was not calling you selfish.

Stop being so emotional. You are also being selfish.

Like i said, if you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that the white-list system is EASILY abused by the majority of couples and people that were on it, you will never be able to look at this change OBJECTIVELY.

It is in the better interest of the community, because it will push out some of the couples that x-logged for each other, and push out some of the guys that whitelist 2 provinces and play them both themselves. If family members that are whitelisted dont want to adjust to the changes and find ways to have fun.. and wind up quitting. Well, call it casualties of stopping all the other whitelisted players that were ABUSING the system.

Look at the big picture. If you are going to talk about how something is bad for the game, dont base the statement on the situation of YOUR kd alone and your network of people that play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDodge

To sum this whole thread up:

Honest Players of Utopia: 1
Cheaters: 0
Couples... (casualties of a war on cheating, assuming they never, EVER log in for each other): 0.5

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you're wrong. To sean and brian eveyone is cheaters. there are no honest players. so it's a lose lose

To Se...are you serious? I'd say the rules that have been around since they took over have been, if anything, more lenient than Mehul's.

Btw the system is bugged : you send aid, it's said blocked (denied) the recipidient has nothing in his news ... but the goodies actually came in :)

But was not my point : despite all frustrations provided by the game in his current shape, I'm so much in love with it and in rememberance of what it was once, that I will keep play at it.

But my son is lost almost certainly as you will lose some others whitelisted.

I missed the fact that we are so many ppl remaining at Utopia that goal was to kick out some of us instead trying to get some new one.

Okay - I play with my hubby in the same KD. We read the rules that were coming up AND also emailed support just to be safe. We are fully able to supply whoever is in charge of this party any type of ID, bills with both names, separate email addy's, birth certificates and even phone numbers where they can call us and have an individual chat if necessary. Not a problem!

I think maybe people are getting a bit emotional before the horse has left the gate here. Since hubby and I read the rules, we chose to abide by them before the system was ever doing its thing fully. At least we tried (No we don't xlog and have never xlogged since he started playing. Nor would we ever). We went through a war together, and I think there might have been a couple of mess ups but we were both effective at our roles. I'm a UD attacker, he's a Halfer/Rogue. The hardest part was me getting semi-chained down to 400 acres and him watching that and not able to help. That's an emotional response ... nothing more. Kinda hard to watch your loved one take it in the chops yanno? But there were 15 other provinces there ready and waiting to help me and the others that did get the receiving end of the beat-up stick. So it worked out.

Yes, I do see an issue with ops, especially if I decide to take on a more mage type role next age ... BUT, I think with good management and clearly defined roles for a couple, it can be worked out and fun still can be had.

Just my 2 cents on the whole thing :). Do I think this system will stop any large scale cheating? No.

Could the mods do everyone a favor?

Please, please stop acting like you're always right. This isn't an argument. People are simply stating that this makes it impossible to play with your sig other or roomate. This is a fact. They will leave the game, and it is giving people trouble in war especially with all the bugs.

Find it in your hearts to listen for once and tell the devs about this, it needs to be removed so that they can work out the kinks.

I see lots of complains and whining ... but no solution!!!

Here is my throw at it. Give a 2~3 hrs leeway period between each restriction period preventing players that are couples from being a liabilty in a warring kd.

In my opinion (and this doesn't affect me because I'm a solo player) but I kind of feel like people playing together from 1 IP address is sort of an advantage in a way. Thus, I feel like this is the devs way of trying to 'balance' that advantage.

What I mean about an advantage is, if you're a solo player and you burn all your stealth and still haven't found a good target you can either take the best target you've found or hope a kingdommate is on and ask them to get the intel for you; whereas if you have a partner playing in the other room, you can just yell over "hey, grab me an SoT of this province" and then the partner yells back "60k to break" and then boom.

So in a way, playing with partners (even legitimate non-cheaters) has always been a slight advantage over solo players.

Make a system that stops cheating, and i'll accept losing couples. You guys are pushing people out of the game to stop fake whitelistings... and that's all you're doing. It's wrong, wrong, wrong.

In a situation like this, you want the pros to outweigh the cons... but honestly, they just don't do it. This change is not good enough to warrant losing players in an already dying game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peteyb22

In my opinion (and this doesn't affect me because I'm a solo player) but I kind of feel like people playing together from 1 IP address is sort of an advantage in a way. Thus, I feel like this is the devs way of trying to 'balance' that advantage.

What I mean about an advantage is, if you're a solo player and you burn all your stealth and still haven't found a good target you can either take the best target you've found or hope a kingdommate is on and ask them to get the intel for you; whereas if you have a partner playing in the other room, you can just yell over "hey, grab me an SoT of this province" and then the partner yells back "60k to break" and then boom.

So in a way, playing with partners (even legitimate non-cheaters) has always been a slight advantage over solo players.

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Petey, just because you're the only player using your IP address doesn't mean you can't get help from kingdom mates. If I need help, I go to IRC and ask my buddies to help me out. This is something every kingdom can set up. All you need is players willing to idle on IRC.

Effective communication outside of Utopia is an "unfair advantage" and must be punished with haste. These cheaters using IRC and msn and skype and any other dirty cheaters sneaky devices like bots and websites need to be stopped! My kd always gets beat up by some kd and they tell me i need to get on IRC! I say "NO! Cheaters! I will never use your IRC!" They say my kd could be better if I used IRC to "effectively communicate". I mean REALLY?!

There are so many kds out there with this "unfair advantage" it makes me sick! They are who we should really be worried about! They are the REAL cheaters!!! Leave the couples alone!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWRRRRRRRRRR

The game was killed long ago by "anti" cheating gimmicks. I came back to play the game without cheating. I played on BF for years trading provinces from one KD to another. Mehul would delete us and we would start up again.

This new anti cheat you have going here is just more of the same BS with a different cover. If people want to cheat they will. Systematic problem with trying to catch cheaters with a net is you "cheat" the honest players out of having fun and enjoying the game.

I spent around $300 to put a KD together that included my son and daughter. My son lives in his own place but my daughter lives in my house. We had always wanted to play in the same KD without having to log off, remove cookies, wait 5-10 minutes before the next guy logged in. You gave us a way and now you throw the "Net" out to catch cheaters. Well you didn't catch any cheaters in our KD, you ended a KD.

You say two people that play from the same house can be in the same KD. That is impossible. If we are both attackers and we are chaining province B, only one of us can hit that province. The other player can't. If one of us is playing a T/M and they are giving MS to everyone then the other guy can't attack anyone.

I see you gave a lot of thought to this just like Mehul used to do with his mass deletions. That worked out great, how do you think this will work out now? I can tell you right now you lost 3 players and pretty much ended a KD. You also lost any future money I would have spent to play this game. Take it any way you want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Landro

Petey, just because you're the only player using your IP address doesn't mean you can't get help from kingdom mates. If I need help, I go to IRC and ask my buddies to help me out. This is something every kingdom can set up. All you need is players willing to idle on IRC.

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Completely understand. I do use IRC. But that doesn't mean that everytime I need something there is going to be one of my kingdommates there.

All I was saying is that two people living in the same house have a slight advantage over someone playing solo. You agree with that, right?

There seems to be some problems with the anticheat mechanism however...
Since we knew that these anti cheat measures were coming out today, my roommate and I specifically decided to focus on different people (we are in war, so we do need to be able to make attacks).
It seems that I am blocked from attacking anyone I hit previously, because technically "someone" from my IP (aka me) hit them in the past few hours. Thus, I cannot chain anyone, because I can't send more than one attack on a province....
No offense, but the point of these games is to have fun and not being able to play with friends is retarded. My roommate is my friend, but now I'm feeling sorry for having gotten him hooked to this game, since we are both completely crippled and unable to enjoy the game as much now. What is the point of not being able to chain in war?

The outcome of this doesn't really concern me as my KD doesn't have any couples or roomates, however there are no advantages a couple playing in the same KD would have, that non couple KDs do not. The arguement doesn't make sense.

If we were talking 10 years ago then yes, there would be major advantages. I have half the people in my KD's phone numbers, the other half I have their email addresses. Half of those people's email messages get delivered directly to their phones nowadays. When my KD gets waved, we send out txts and emails. When we attack, we send txts and emails to t/ms to cast pitfalls, ns, or bg. Communication is so easy these days, its basically like being in the same room with them. I have a KD mate who lives in Indonesia and I live in the US. If he wants to attack and needs a pitfalls cast, he sends me a txt, and halfway across the world I get that msg instantly. I see no advantage that legit couples, roomates, or families have over anyone who cares enough about the game to pick up a phone.

I do feel sorry for people who are affected by this. I see a lot of angry people in this thread, who aren't really making a good case. I think what needs to be said (maybe it will help coming from someone who is not all worked up over this) is that now couples, roomates, etc now have an unfair disadvantage, compared to everyone else. If your KD is a ghetto, then yes, I'm sorry you are going to get eaten up by organized KDs who are going to drive you nuts. However, any organized KD has plenty of ways of instant communication (irc, email, msn, aim, icq sms text, ichat, skype, facetime, telephone, shall I continue?) which mimic having someone close by that you can, as someone put it, yell to "Hey 60k breaks em". All the organized, non couple or family members KDs will go on playing the game the way it was meant to be played, with teamwork, strategy, and communication. Those that have these couples now no longer can play together in a warring KD. If your KD doesn't war, business as usual. If your KD does war, contrary to Bishop's earlier post (Sorry, I actually usually agree with you) of hit someone else, no big deal, it is actually a huge deal. There's so much sharing of intel, ops, and attacks between a KD, because that IS the nature of the game. The couples may as well pack it up, or play in different KDs, because one of the two will just sit on the sidelines and look pretty.

So if this does help catch cheaters, great. For the kingdoms who have couples, I'd love to war you because thats one more province I don't have to worry about =) In all seriousness though, I feel bad for you guys, because the devs and mods apparently don't see the significant disadvantage this puts you at.

Utopia currently needs -
Mods that have a sense of professionalism about their job an leave their egos at the door when posting in the public forums
Devs that can code
Business advisor that knows how to increase its customer base instead of alienating the current customers they have

I am a solo player so these changes in the security do not directly affect me, though they will affect my kingdom. I have no idea how much money this game makes it owners but I do know that these current changes just lost them about $1000 (probably more). I think I am going to use Utopia as a model in how not to run a business, and yes, I run a very successful business. When I had a couple of white employees steaingl from me I didn't fire all my white employees, I fired all the thieves. Had an oil company try to not pay me for my services once. I didn't punish all the oil companies though, I just got rid of the account that refused to pay me. Guess that's too logical though.

This day shall be marked as the day the dev's squatted, pulled down their Calvin Klein Classic boxer briefs, and took a big steaming **** on the couples of utopia.

Where are the developers and mods' responses to this? I mean honestly, IF I wanted to cheat, I could think of several ways to do it. Would I? No.

TO BISHOP AND DHARAN
THINK about THIS: People who have been effectively cheating on this game have been doing so since its creation. Now, why would some one who knows how to cheat even take the time to PROPERLY request the Whitelisting option (that you so conveniently smeared and painted it perfectly brown...). Seriously, it takes far too much effort for them and for the multis I remind you, like to use more than 1-2 provinces. IPSO FACTO a COMPLETE waste of time for them. Thanks for for the steaming ****.

A BETTER idea... Why not call this ****listing? Looking forward to your valuable input. Glad to have contributed money to some people that would so conveniently **** in their hands and wipe my face with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vega210

The outcome of this doesn't really concern me as my KD doesn't have any couples or roomates, however there are no advantages a couple playing in the same KD would have, that non couple KDs do not. The arguement doesn't make sense.

If we were talking 10 years ago then yes, there would be major advantages. I have half the people in my KD's phone numbers, the other half I have their email addresses. Half of those people's email messages get delivered directly to their phones nowadays. When my KD gets waved, we send out txts and emails. When we attack, we send txts and emails to t/ms to cast pitfalls, ns, or bg. Communication is so easy these days, its basically like being in the same room with them. I have a KD mate who lives in Indonesia and I live in the US. If he wants to attack and needs a pitfalls cast, he sends me a txt, and halfway across the world I get that msg instantly. I see no advantage that legit couples, roomates, or families have over anyone who cares enough about the game to pick up a phone.

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But new players aren't going be comfortable giving out their phone numbers to people they do not know personally. Not to mention maybe some of us don't have international text messaging in our budget.

*skims through to find people with something of substance/questions aside from complaints

Quote:

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Originally Posted by repmes

In fact those stupid enough to be honest and whitelisted their wife/husband ( my son in my case, gggrr, all those having teen at home know how it can be hard to SHARE something with them)) are surely punished ...cheaters, I'm not that sure.

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Counter example:
Someone gives you 3 candy bars. Later that day, they realize they gave you too many, and take one away. Did you get punished? No, you have two candy bars that you didn't have yesterday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuriho

you're wrong. To sean and brian eveyone is cheaters. there are no honest players. so it's a lose lose

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You're wrong. Don't speak on behalf of the devs. They don't speak on your behalf.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tightpants

Could the mods do everyone a favor?

Please, please stop acting like you're always right. This isn't an argument. People are simply stating that this makes it impossible to play with your sig other or roomate. This is a fact.

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That is not a fact that is an opinion. It's very much possible to play as a couple. You don't want to take the extra effort to make that happen and that's your choice.

That said, I'm more than open to the possibility of being wrong, with the provision that the said parties actually provide good solid evidence and not biased, rage-induced opinions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sertheng

It seems that I am blocked from attacking anyone I hit previously, because technically "someone" from my IP (aka me) hit them in the past few hours. Thus, I cannot chain anyone, because I can't send more than one attack on a province....

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Some people have reported early bugs with the system. Apologies for any inconvience that these bugs cause while they're working out the kinks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vega210

The outcome of this doesn't really concern me as my KD doesn't have any couples or roomates, however there are no advantages a couple playing in the same KD would have, that non couple KDs do not. The arguement doesn't make sense.

If we were talking 10 years ago then yes, there would be major advantages. I have half the people in my KD's phone numbers, the other half I have their email addresses. Half of those people's email messages get delivered directly to their phones nowadays. When my KD gets waved, we send out txts and emails. When we attack, we send txts and emails to t/ms to cast pitfalls, ns, or bg. Communication is so easy these days, its basically like being in the same room with them. I have a KD mate who lives in Indonesia and I live in the US. If he wants to attack and needs a pitfalls cast, he sends me a txt, and halfway across the world I get that msg instantly. I see no advantage that legit couples, roomates, or families have over anyone who cares enough about the game to pick up a phone.

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Not every kd has such connectivity with their kd-mates. The rules need to be universal. It would be wrong to assume that every kd should require that kind of connection with their players.

Quote:

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I think what needs to be said (maybe it will help coming from someone who is not all worked up over this) is that now couples, roomates, etc now have an unfair disadvantage, compared to everyone else.

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It's impossible to say whether or not this is too disadvantageous for couples without fully knowing how long that other person will be blocked for. Right now I'm assuming the prov will be blocked off for a fair amount of time. If that's not the case and you're blocked for interacting for like 3 days or something like that, yes I'd be inclined to agree that it's too much and not fair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryshad

Mods that have a sense of professionalism about their job an leave their egos at the door when posting in the public forums

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I don't know if Bishop gets paid for his Support work (I think he doesn't but I could be wrong), but with that possible exception, none of us get paid. We do this because we love this game, i.e. it's not our jobs.

That said, we're giving a very angry group of people answers that they don't want to hear. Of course we're going to be made out to look like the bad guys here. I can personally say I've been nothing but kind and polite in my responses (or at least I'm trying. If I did say something rude in some round about way, I do apologize as that wasn't my intent) and yet I get nothing but hostility in return.

Yet despite all that, no one has been banned or even so much as received a single infraction in this thread. We get it, you guys are angry and (perhaps) rightly so. Is it really so much to ask that everyone calms down, gets all their facts straight, tries to work with the system for a few days and if it's really such an awful idea we stop and reevaluate it then and base it off collected, well-understood facts?




If I missed a legit thought/question please let me know. Also, tone down the flaming please and any further trolling will not be tolerated.

I'm digging the PR that has been shown thusfar. The people against the Whitelisting are probably the same people that ran off a large number of legitimate players to begin with. Entice old players back into the game with a silver platter and hang them with it. Can we get some response other than message deletions? Thank you.

TO PALEM AND ALL DEVS/MODERATORS:

1. Complaint:
In fact those stupid enough to be honest and whitelisted their wife/husband ( my son in my case, gggrr, all those having teen at home know how it can be hard to SHARE something with them)) are surely punished ...cheaters, I'm not that sure.

Response:
"Counter example: Someone gives you 3 candy bars. Later that day, they realize they gave you too many, and take one away. Did you get punished? No, you have two candy bars that you didn't have yesterday."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- Bad choice of answer. This relates to people who were already in. What about the people who actually rejoined Utopia because this option was made viable so people could legitimately play together. ALSO consider THIS: SEVERAL PEOPLE PAID SO THEY COULD BE IN THE SAME KINGDOM. Consider it well.

- Never quote philosophy. Philosophers will tell you the one thing that no professor will profess. They know nothing. This quote is terrible and does NOT fit with this situation.


2. Complaint:
you're wrong. To sean and brian eveyone is cheaters. there are no honest players. so it's a lose lose

Response:
"You're wrong. Don't speak on behalf of the devs. They don't speak on your behalf."

Two Cents from Your Community:
-PR Mistake Number Two. Never tell your clients, the ones who allow for this game to happen this
ONE
SIMPLE
THING
And it is an EASY rule to follow as well as a TERRIBLE rule to break:
- Never, under any circumstance, tell the client(s) that they (US) are WRONG! Ever. A business quote to take for heart, because "It makes Cents"
- As to the matter of them speaking for us. That's what the Devs did. Deny it how you may try.


3. Complaint:
"Could the mods do everyone a favor? Please, please stop acting like you're always right. This isn't an argument. People are simply stating that this makes it impossible to play with your sig other or roomate. This is a fact."

Response:
"That is not a fact that is an opinion. It's very much possible to play as a couple. You don't want to take the extra effort to make that happen and that's your choice. That said, I'm more than open to the possibility of being wrong, with the provision that the said parties actually provide good solid evidence and not biased, rage-induced opinions."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- In order to successfully play as a warring kingdom (or any kingdom for that matter), and as a person wanting the full experience of the game with some one else, you cannot have Limiters on that block play. Aid to each other is blocked, if both people live in the same house and are attackers, you cannot both be a part of a chain during a war. To ANY top leading Kingdoms I would ask, "Do you win wars by chaining?" I guarantee the top warring kingdoms, every last one of them, chain to make their effective wins. Exceptional disadvantage during war times for kingdoms that may have more than two or three couples playing in one kingdom, especially with regards to a respective kingdom of the same size.

- What could be an even and FUN war turns into a nightmare for the kingdom with couples. We have one whitelist APPROVED duo in my kingdom (spending HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO YOU so THINK!) that is already suffering due to the sudden implementation. The kingdom that we are warring, and that of which HAD the upper hand, I fear is suffering due to multiple WL'ers in their kingdom.

- Money being handed to this site for whitelisting in the same kingdom: Fact enough? There will be a lot of heat for this change. Also a fact.


4. Complaint:
"It seems that I am blocked from attacking anyone I hit previously, because technically "someone" from my IP (aka me) hit them in the past few hours. Thus, I cannot chain anyone, because I can't send more than one attack on a province...."

Response:
"Some people have reported early bugs with the system. Apologies for any inconvience that these bugs cause while they're working out the kinks."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- It's hard work trying to prevent honest players from playing and yes we are angry.


5. Complaint:
"The outcome of this doesn't really concern me as my KD doesn't have any couples or roomates, however there are no advantages a couple playing in the same KD would have, that non couple KDs do not. The arguement doesn't make sense. If we were talking 10 years ago then yes, there would be major advantages. I have half the people in my KD's phone numbers, the other half I have their email addresses. Half of those people's email messages get delivered directly to their phones nowadays. When my KD gets waved, we send out txts and emails. When we attack, we send txts and emails to t/ms to cast pitfalls, ns, or bg. Communication is so easy these days, its basically like being in the same room with them. I have a KD mate who lives in Indonesia and I live in the US. If he wants to attack and needs a pitfalls cast, he sends me a txt, and halfway across the world I get that msg instantly. I see no advantage that legit couples, roomates, or families have over anyone who cares enough about the game to pick up a phone."

Response:
"Not every kd has such connectivity with their kd-mates. The rules need to be universal. It would be wrong to assume that every kd should require that kind of connection with their players."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- This method solves this how....? Same connectivity? Get with the times. Most of the people that do play this have other methods of communicating. I'll let you in on a little secret: Why did Steve Jobs remove the Apple I from the cafeteria at work? Because holding onto the past cripples you and prevents you from reaching the future. This does not prevent people from texting each other. And another little secret... if they have internet, they can have Skype or ICQ. It is only blocking progression of the game to the future. Without progression, there is only regression.


6. Complaint:
I think what needs to be said (maybe it will help coming from someone who is not all worked up over this) is that now couples, roomates, etc now have an unfair disadvantage, compared to everyone else.

Response:
"It's impossible to say whether or not this is too disadvantageous for couples without fully knowing how long that other person will be blocked for. Right now I'm assuming the prov will be blocked off for a fair amount of time. If that's not the case and you're blocked for interacting for like 3 days or something like that, yes I'd be inclined to agree that it's too much and not fair."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- It is EXTREMELY detrimental to current kingdoms warring right now. Even wars are toppled. This takes Utopia back to Dial-Up. Back to the future.




ALL OF THAT SAID. I sincerely appreciate the time that you all devote to the game as well as the forums. The fact of the matter at hand is that you are LOSING PAYING customers. Cheaters wont bother paying I assure you. Whitelisting WAS legitimate but now it is seriously as I have put it, ****listing. I would rather Cheat and **** than "donate" another dollar at this point. This is a disgusting and terrible way to handle a problem such as cheating. What, do people not "report it" now? Easy to manually delete those provinces. This game has been dying. Adding the whitelist option opened this game up to growth. Putting a limiter on it puts it back to dying. Not just IMO. Delete these messages from the people that make this beloved game possible only helps to further run off massive amounts of players.

Soon, all that will be left are the cheaters sitting in a dark room, drinking mountain dew and eating stale pizza.

P.S. All of our opinions are FACTS to any business owner. Without clients, there is no business. Try and say that there are other games out there. Beauty of capitalism is that there are.

Lol this is only about getting money from ads, companies pay you for how many hits u get from different ip address. Since it doesn't pay you guys with brothers or couples playing with same ip address. So You make it harder for them to play together.. The one thing that makes me pissed off is that i spent good hard earn money making a kingdom and more than half of us use smartphones or a tab from a cell phone provider to play this game, but once again since a cell provider might use the same ip for a certain region, and me and a friend play in same kingdom live in same town.. We might not be able to interact? Only reason for that would be you get payed as if it one person from these ads.

And for all of u that think playing under the same house is a unfair advantage.. I guess u would think that my kingdom mates cheat sense we use our phones and call or text each other when we need them online..

I'm confused why the notion keeps being stated as absolute fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to play in the same kd with a family member now, which is quite ridiculous. The system has been on for half a day and you want to state facts about what is and isn't possible for the entire server without even taking the time to work it out.

Byakuya, it is really much worse than you think. In private it has been made clear to me that I am unreasonable here, the pain my kingdom suffers is somehow my fault, and that apparently the behavior that has upset 3 - 4 random strangers here is perfectly fine. They apparently don't even notice the abrasive responses they are making. They don't see anything wrong with how they have conducted themselves. In fact, he suggested I was emotional and needed a break. I found it all to be very disingenuous.

Really this has turned into a very disrespectful communication with their clients. It infuriates me. They're not interested in being educated on proper public relations. They're going to half-fast it their way. There is only one way to teach people like this, and that's through exemplification. I'm going to recovered whatever money I have stored with these pricks, and I intend to never give them another dime for this game or any other they run again in my life. This is why you don't treat clients like you have treated me. There are plenty of other ****ty game companies that will shut up and take my money without all the attitude.

"So if this does help catch cheaters, great. For the kingdoms who have couples, I'd love to war you because thats one more province I don't have to worry about =) In all seriousness though, I feel bad for you guys, because the devs and mods apparently don't see the significant disadvantage this puts you at."

Yea you would be loving us right now. One was a chain target and now he can't even attack to get land... yay he is fish food. So what is he going to do explore? Joy…

To those who ask, “in war time when provinces ban together to chain or op the same target for a specific goal, it wont be allowed?”
Answer- Nope you can’t do crap. I am a t/m and he is an attacker. Once I do an op or he does and attack we can no longer do anything to the other province.

So basically:
The aid part is kind of lame to begin with. Just send it to someone else and then they send it to the other person in your house. So nothing fixed there.
People that knew how to cheat to begin with still can. So nothing fixed there.

So who suffers? People who quit this game discovered they could have fun with friends and family finally! So we come back to play and now we can't even play a decent war? We have to tiptoe around each other so that we can do anything in war? I don't care what you say about learning how to play separate roles... It makes playing together next to pointless. It puts the players at such a disadvantage as I am currently learning.

Yea I am sure some people who whitelisted abused the system, but punishing those who did not? If you had cheaters before whitelisting... Then you know what? You'll still have them.

Plus seeing Bishops attitude towards anyone that has an opinion that doesn't agree with him. Lame. I can't believe how you treat the people who play this game. Especially if people are paying money. Personally I wouldn't drop a penny on this game anymore.

You can check me I don't care. I played this game fairly and I am so frustrated that I can't play with my family anymore.

Don’t worry I already see anyone’s input that involves keeping whitelisting is going to fall on deaf ears. Your decision has been made. Those who whitelisted are all cheaters and log in for each other, learn to play at a disadvantage.

There you get your wish! Thanks to this I no longer really want to play. I had fun playing with my family while it lasted though :)

The system was not put in place to prevent whitelist abuse, it was put in to prevent large scale cheating by interaction of provinces at the same IP.

I don't think u guys understand how many people play with phones and tabs alone.. I will say give this a few weeks and if it effects us, that use our phones from interacting you'll see the number of poeple playing be cut in half

Playing from a proxy by phone could get you deleted before and has already been an issue, at least now you know it's a problem and can fix it before it comes to that.

Ok, so I am going to be directly affected by these changes as my wife plays in the same kingdom as I do(we are currently white listed). She is an elf/sage and I am a faery/sage. I have a few questions that I would like to have answered.

1) If I am spreading meteors on the opposing kingdom we are warring, what would be the time limit for her to hit a province that I have put meteors on? It hasn't directly helped her in any way. If I were to put pitfalls on a target for her, that would be a direct help and I can understand that. Would she not be able to hit any province that I put meteors on? So after a few hours and I have meteors on every province, she cant hit anyone in their kingdom?

2) Bishop posted earlier that there would have to be adjustments to kingdoms strategies to have couples playing in the same kingdom. Could he (or anyone) elaborate on this. What kind of strategies or options do we have.

3) If I aid another province in the kingdom and they in turn send it to her, is that going to be flagged as cheating? Can we both aid a province within our kingdom?

If it is going to get too complicated, than I think that Nancy and I will be quitting. A lot of people know us on IRC, Messenger and in these forums, if it is going to get too complicated and we cant enjoy the game together, then its time to call it quits. We just finished a 7 day war and won, this was the first war win for our kingdom in almost 2 ages! If we cant enjoy this together, we will probably find some other game that we can enjoy together.

Please help us with our options... Thank you.

DHaran. Get OUT OF THE STONE AGE. People use cells. Most of the people that started playing this game and I GUARANTEE THE MAJORITY THAT STILL DO are now out working in professional fields and some of those jobs require them to travel. SO NOW are you INSINUATING oh so SUBTLY that THEY will be punished as well?

Quit being TART DHARAN. I dig the name but geeze. You are ostracizing a large portion of your community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DHaran

The system was not put in place to prevent whitelist abuse, it was put in to prevent large scale cheating by interaction of provinces at the same IP.

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You pretty much posted the solution to the problem right here - bring back whitelisting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DHaran

I'm confused why the notion keeps being stated as absolute fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to play in the same kd with a family member now, which is quite ridiculous. The system has been on for half a day and you want to state facts about what is and isn't possible for the entire server without even taking the time to work it out.

---

Do you really not see how it can create problems? They can play, sure, but only limitedly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Palem

That is not a fact that is an opinion. It's very much possible to play as a couple. You don't want to take the extra effort to make that happen and that's your choice.

---

It is a fact that this is causing problems for people, and it is a fact that people will leave over this.

Let me put this simply. This change prevents people from doing things that they would normally be able to do. Can they possibly make it work? Yes, but it will take a lot of effort and it will end up being less than optimal. From what I'm hearing/seeing, it's far less than optimal, but I'm trying to stick to the facts here.

TO PALEM AND ALL DEVS/MODERATORS:

1. Complaint:
In fact those stupid enough to be honest and whitelisted their wife/husband ( my son in my case, gggrr, all those having teen at home know how it can be hard to SHARE something with them)) are surely punished ...cheaters, I'm not that sure.

Response:
"Counter example: Someone gives you 3 candy bars. Later that day, they realize they gave you too many, and take one away. Did you get punished? No, you have two candy bars that you didn't have yesterday."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- Bad choice of answer. This relates to people who were already in. What about the people who actually rejoined Utopia because this option was made viable so people could legitimately play together. ALSO consider THIS: SEVERAL PEOPLE PAID SO THEY COULD BE IN THE SAME KINGDOM. Consider it well.

- Never quote philosophy. Philosophers will tell you the one thing that no professor will profess. They know nothing. This quote is terrible and does NOT fit with this situation.


2. Complaint:
you're wrong. To sean and brian eveyone is cheaters. there are no honest players. so it's a lose lose

Response:
"You're wrong. Don't speak on behalf of the devs. They don't speak on your behalf."

Two Cents from Your Community:
-PR Mistake Number Two. Never tell your clients, the ones who allow for this game to happen this
ONE
SIMPLE
THING
And it is an EASY rule to follow as well as a TERRIBLE rule to break:
- Never, under any circumstance, tell the client(s) that they (US) are WRONG! Ever. A business quote to take for heart, because "It makes Cents"
- As to the matter of them speaking for us. That's what the Devs did. Deny it how you may try.


3. Complaint:
"Could the mods do everyone a favor? Please, please stop acting like you're always right. This isn't an argument. People are simply stating that this makes it impossible to play with your sig other or roomate. This is a fact."

Response:
"That is not a fact that is an opinion. It's very much possible to play as a couple. You don't want to take the extra effort to make that happen and that's your choice. That said, I'm more than open to the possibility of being wrong, with the provision that the said parties actually provide good solid evidence and not biased, rage-induced opinions."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- In order to successfully play as a warring kingdom (or any kingdom for that matter), and as a person wanting the full experience of the game with some one else, you cannot have Limiters on that block play. Aid to each other is blocked, if both people live in the same house and are attackers, you cannot both be a part of a chain during a war. To ANY top leading Kingdoms I would ask, "Do you win wars by chaining?" I guarantee the top warring kingdoms, every last one of them, chain to make their effective wins. Exceptional disadvantage during war times for kingdoms that may have more than two or three couples playing in one kingdom, especially with regards to a respective kingdom of the same size.

- What could be an even and FUN war turns into a nightmare for the kingdom with couples. We have one whitelist APPROVED duo in my kingdom (spending HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO YOU so THINK!) that is already suffering due to the sudden implementation. The kingdom that we are warring, and that of which HAD the upper hand, I fear is suffering due to multiple WL'ers in their kingdom.

- Money being handed to this site for whitelisting in the same kingdom: Fact enough? There will be a lot of heat for this change. Also a fact.


4. Complaint:
"It seems that I am blocked from attacking anyone I hit previously, because technically "someone" from my IP (aka me) hit them in the past few hours. Thus, I cannot chain anyone, because I can't send more than one attack on a province...."

Response:
"Some people have reported early bugs with the system. Apologies for any inconvience that these bugs cause while they're working out the kinks."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- It's hard work trying to prevent honest players from playing and yes we are angry.


5. Complaint:
"The outcome of this doesn't really concern me as my KD doesn't have any couples or roomates, however there are no advantages a couple playing in the same KD would have, that non couple KDs do not. The arguement doesn't make sense. If we were talking 10 years ago then yes, there would be major advantages. I have half the people in my KD's phone numbers, the other half I have their email addresses. Half of those people's email messages get delivered directly to their phones nowadays. When my KD gets waved, we send out txts and emails. When we attack, we send txts and emails to t/ms to cast pitfalls, ns, or bg. Communication is so easy these days, its basically like being in the same room with them. I have a KD mate who lives in Indonesia and I live in the US. If he wants to attack and needs a pitfalls cast, he sends me a txt, and halfway across the world I get that msg instantly. I see no advantage that legit couples, roomates, or families have over anyone who cares enough about the game to pick up a phone."

Response:
"Not every kd has such connectivity with their kd-mates. The rules need to be universal. It would be wrong to assume that every kd should require that kind of connection with their players."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- This method solves this how....? Same connectivity? Get with the times. Most of the people that do play this have other methods of communicating. I'll let you in on a little secret: Why did Steve Jobs remove the Apple I from the cafeteria at work? Because holding onto the past cripples you and prevents you from reaching the future. This does not prevent people from texting each other. And another little secret... if they have internet, they can have Skype or ICQ. It is only blocking progression of the game to the future. Without progression, there is only regression.


6. Complaint:
I think what needs to be said (maybe it will help coming from someone who is not all worked up over this) is that now couples, roomates, etc now have an unfair disadvantage, compared to everyone else.

Response:
"It's impossible to say whether or not this is too disadvantageous for couples without fully knowing how long that other person will be blocked for. Right now I'm assuming the prov will be blocked off for a fair amount of time. If that's not the case and you're blocked for interacting for like 3 days or something like that, yes I'd be inclined to agree that it's too much and not fair."

Two Cents from Your Community:
- It is EXTREMELY detrimental to current kingdoms warring right now. Even wars are toppled. This takes Utopia back to Dial-Up. Back to the future.




ALL OF THAT SAID. I sincerely appreciate the time that you all devote to the game as well as the forums. The fact of the matter at hand is that you are LOSING PAYING customers. Cheaters wont bother paying I assure you. Whitelisting WAS legitimate but now it is seriously as I have put it, ****listing. I would rather Cheat and **** than "donate" another dollar at this point. This is a disgusting and terrible way to handle a problem such as cheating. What, do people not "report it" now? Easy to manually delete those provinces. This game has been dying. Adding the whitelist option opened this game up to growth. Putting a limiter on it puts it back to dying. Not just IMO. Delete these messages from the people that make this beloved game possible only helps to further run off massive amounts of players.

Soon, all that will be left are the cheaters sitting in a dark room, drinking mountain dew and eating stale pizza.

P.S. All of our opinions are FACTS to any business owner. Without clients, there is no business. Try and say that there are other games out there. Beauty of capitalism is that there are.

P.S.P.S. DHaran You failed to address a single point.

And to the money comment by Golden:
I see what you are saying. They are just too blind to realize that they are cutting off their arms. Destroy the fan base, destroy the game. No game. No money.

Why is aid blocked? Seems silly.

Also is it cool with you mods if i make a second account and don't have them directly interact?

this game is no longer family friendly :(

it is family unfriendly :(

I just want the whitelisting to go back. I only came back to play with my family. I am NOT whitelisted. I have no need because I live by myself. However, my family is what brought me back to this game. I played for MANY ages and went by many many names.

My first : Gelblin (AGE 3), then others ;Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, Soul Society, Patriarch Byakuya, Grimmjow.

I have gone by countless other names in between. My reason for quitting this game is because I hated random'ing and being separated from players I had grown fond of. I came back only because I could play with who I wanted to: Invite system and Whitelisting.

Taking out Whitelisting's openness (which was supposed to be a rigorous system to be approved right?) and placing a dunce cap has ruined the game (again) for me and for my famz and friends.