Anything interesting happening?

Yes, it's rather funny to do something that was massively used and acceptable last age. Odd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by #cromulent

(@Procy) gonna call the fair play alliance?
(@Procy) get some outside razes?
[&Benjamin] lol
[&Benjamin] **** off
ChanMode: Benjamin sets mode [+b] *!*@uto-3A69DCC2.stuff
? This *!*@uto-3A69DCC2.stuff ban affects: @Procy
? Kick: Procy was kicked by Benjamin (Benjamin)

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Watch out guys. Fair Play alliance is needed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godly

Resetting a prov is not abusing a bug and has already been coded around by the devs (making aid a hostile action so cant reset, having a 72 hr protection on reset provs). At best case, you could claim it's a mechanic abuse, but then again, just me playing utopia is a mechanic abuse because I will find every possible way to get an advantage over the worse players. A "mechanic abuse" is what utopia is all about. Devs make changes, we figure out how to best play around it.

Futhermore, Bishop hand picked the key provs in our war and just released their def to 0 intentionally instead of giving them a fighting chance by releasing some offense, some defense -- essentially just to attempt to farm them out to pyro. I wonder how much crying cJ did to get that specific result. Had he released say half offense half defense, they would have still been able to 4x pyro and only 2x in return. Obviously this wasn't enough for pyro to have a chance.

This is a clear overstepping of boundaries by a dev. He basically entrapped us by making the coding change and not informing utopia, and then instead of just laughing at us that we fell for it, he also is attempting to chart shape by giving pyro the best possible chance of winning.

Every kingdom in utopia abuses mechanics. Do you inform Bishop when race X is OP? No. You pick it and own the server. Is it against the spirit of the rules of the game when you get GBP to feed a cow to be UB by 100% of utopia? Based on the very loose definition of spirit of the rules (i.e. whatever Bishop feels like today), YES. The INTENT of GBP is to protect beaten down provs, not exploit it purposely to grow cows. Yet, it's been done. It's never been actioned. And if anyone complained about it, Bishop would say "oh well." I could list off another 100 ways we as a community "abuse the mechanics" in utopia and will never get actioned for it. 2 rounds ago we had a crown winner based on abusing of war mechanics. 3 rounds ago we had a crown winner based on abusing of war mechanics.

They make the changes, we break them. Actioning this is a completely new, terrible precedence. Just because it's happened to a kingdom that is not yours doesn't mean it won't happen to your kingdom in the future. You may think that you have come up with a really slick strategy, but instead of being rewarded, it might not really be a valid strategy according to the utopia police.

Last round, a kingdom complained of people resetting their chained provs in war to have them come back after 24 hrs of protection in great shape. Bishop's response? Get people from outside to raze them.

Wake up, people. This isn't about abusing bugs. This is about Bishop's power trip. He's pissed off that he made a stupid change and people figured out how to break it. If you just want the noobs to play utopia who can't figure this stuff out, just say so. But last I counted, utopia is down to 20 kingdoms with 25 players. You may blame advertising. I blame you.

Current list of punishment for using a tactic that is not a bug abuse and therefore not cheating:
- The entire tactic foiled by a coding change not mentioned in the changelist: our provs arent in functioning state for 5 real days (24 hrs in initial protection + 24 hrs waiting since aid is now a hostile action + 72 hrs for protection on new provs). This should be punishment enough.
- All leaders who reset suspended for 72 hrs
- More military released than what was aided (military paid for with real cash).
- Still negative TB on the provs that got aided
- Total of 7 provs taken out of a war for a measly 8k soldiers
- Loss of 2 reset credits purchased with real money that weren't used how we wanted them to be used. (This should be refunded).

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Suprise, surprise. CR cheating again, eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ezzerland

Yes, it's rather funny to do something that was massively used and acceptable last age. Odd.

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"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past are certain to miss the future." John F. Kennedy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark Knight

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past are certain to miss the future." John F. Kennedy

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JFK was such an amazing man :(

So much for read but, im glad finally Godly changed his nonsense avatar. Still he change it to something worse, break forum rules so im going to report him for it...

Quote:

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Edit 2: I am not impacted by any of the action taken by Bishop nor do I play for any of the kingdoms involved. I do not at all understand why this was complained about last age, but was acceptable, and suddenly now is not.

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Its how you use the function that is deemed as abuse. By your and other logic fake warring would be perfectly fine cause hey warring isnt against the rules cause Bishop said so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drixx

I think the whole "cheater cheater" stuff is quite a bit overblown in this thread.

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The punished kingdoms spent quite a significant time last age waving their e-peens around and screaming fairplay for great justice, and then they get punished... it makes these kingdoms stink of hypocrisy so I think any and all that "cheater cheater" stuff is well deserved.
Maybe it wasn't obvious that it was a rules violation but it should very obvious that it is deep in the twilight zone and definitely a case of skirting the borderline for abuse..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drixx;15286174They were punished ex post facto, which I disagree with but I'm not the one who decides the rules nor am I the one who decides whether they should be enforced ex post facto or not. Last age they let a much larger abuse go without fixing it or actioning it at all, so I find it a little odd that 2 provs aiding for a slight military advantage for several other provs was met with such a harsh response, [B

especially[/B] given that rationally it is much more abusive to do what was being discussed in the thread last age where Bishop said resetting was not abuse.

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People keep referring to that thread and buying the original story of the monarch on the receiving side, as I remember it the monarch on the other side replied to the thread with an equally plausible story, so what actually happened in that war and whether there was any intentional abuse isn't really clear.

Also it's not really ex post facto because "the spirit of the rules" rule has been around for a long time

Quote:

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Players attempting to manipulate rules and quirks of the game in ways obviously not intended may be subject to deletion. Because of their nature, these types of circumstances are considered on a case-by-case basis. Users should avoid actions they believe are against the spirit and intent of the game.

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Did these kingdoms manipulate "the quirks of the game"? Yes they did.
Would it seem to be in a manner obviously not intended? Yes I would think that it seems obvious that 24h protection wasn't implemented so that kingdoms could systematically abuse it feed resources and reset.
And so we're down to the case by case part. There's a clear difference between 1 or 2 provinces resetting in manner where it isn't obvious that it was done with the intention to abuse the system.
In the other case it's a kingdom which manipulates the quirk in a systematic and widescale manner so there can be very little doubt that the manipulation was done knowingly, intentionally and maliciously.

For people who don't know history: long time ago ABS accuse utonet admin for spy ABS private channels. No evidence for it and i never hear for any secure problems in utonet but its was used for reason ABS to Setup his own irc server. Server are own from Hawk= current player in Havoc/CR and ex ABS leader. All rest admins are ABS leaders. So basically they have full power if want to spy your private channel and take your location and other info. If you play in small ghetto most like no one is going to bother spy you but if you start compete your security are under high risk.

My advice is: every kd using ABS irc server to move to other irc server. No point risk your security.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elit

For people who don't know history: long time ago ABS accuse utonet admin for spy ABS private channels. No evidence for it and i never hear for any secure problems in utonet but its was used for reason ABS to Setup his own irc server. Server are own from Hawk= current player in Havoc/CR and ex ABS leader. All rest admins are ABS leaders. So basically they have full power if want to spy your private channel and take your location and other info. If you play in small ghetto most like no one is going to bother spy you but if you start compete your security are under high risk.

My advice is: every kd using ABS irc server to move to other irc server. No point risk your security.

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Same logic could been applied to Utonet, both arc and Eeeegor played in Playboys at some point and both are ircops. Now I dont think that was the case but hey..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korp

Same logic could been applied to Utonet, both arc and Eeeegor played in Playboys at some point and both are ircops. Now I dont think that was the case but hey..

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Its was Eeeegor acused from ABS about spy them :P
People can use other irc server different from abs/utonet if want. I have used different irc server in past for secure reasons. Still there is one main difference from utonet and abs. Utonet is official irc server for utopia. They cant risk making any lame move like it or every one is going to leave utonet and its kinda like game killing direct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korp

Its how you use the function that is deemed as abuse. By your and other logic fake warring would be perfectly fine cause hey warring isnt against the rules cause Bishop said so.

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This is a flawed argument for many reasons, but I'll use it where it is a good example. Fake warring used to be permitted. When it was changed to not be allowed, it was announced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ezzerland

This is a flawed argument for many reasons, but I'll use it where it is a good example. Fake warring used to be permitted. When it was changed to not be allowed, it was announced.

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It was never permitted just that they didnt act upon it previously. But you seem to miss the point, this situation here is where you take one context to justify ones action in a different context. Ie, Bishops "Its not against the rules is" can not be applied to this siutation since the context is different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godly

No I'm laughing at this:

Also, it's so strange that at freeze mode, every single province of my kingdom received the following message. It was to all provinces, and not just (M) or (S). Perhaps, this person was a multi from some kingdom trying to find out setup/personalities.

Game Date Pre Age
Real Date Fri, 21 Mar at 02:16 GMT+00:00
Sender Banana the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Recipient Knight Dr Cancer the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Subject Hi
Hi, any slot for me?

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ROFL this was gold

I find pyros allies farming them millions after millions of gc for free before top battles interesting. Its not against game rules. But i think it should be known exactly how they fund wars with help of allies. They come here and throw mud at others and blaming others for using a game mechanic that was no rule against. Just in the same way as farming gc on 0 tpa targets from friends is no rule against. Bishop can you action it this age maybe, no, ohh maybe?
Lets start playing god for real Bishop. If you gonna sanction something then sanction those that release to 0 tpa to feed friends gc. I can come up with more things. But picked Pyros special since they are trying to burn others on a stake. Sanction it.

*insert whine here*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anri

I find pyros allies farming them millions after millions of gc for free before top battles interesting.

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Did you report?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elit

For people who don't know history: long time ago ABS accuse utonet admin for spy ABS private channels. No evidence for it and i never hear for any secure problems in utonet but its was used for reason ABS to Setup his own irc server. Server are own from Hawk= current player in Havoc/CR and ex ABS leader. All rest admins are ABS leaders. So basically they have full power if want to spy your private channel and take your location and other info. If you play in small ghetto most like no one is going to bother spy you but if you start compete your security are under high risk.

My advice is: every kd using ABS irc server to move to other irc server. No point risk your security.

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Apparently it was an ex PBs player that joined abs that leaked everything, nothing to do with utonet admins at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TommyB

Did you report?

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Not against the rules to do it. Just like what CR did was not against the rules. Its just borderline.

I rest my case

FWIW I don't keep logs and stuff but I can confirm Hawk used to spy on me and his co-monarch (Tonya's) PM's. We used to say things on absnet just to throw him off the trail and we'd talk for real on utonet. We caught him in doing so with disinformation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anri

Not against the rules to do it.

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Your example is a pretty clear violation of the spirit of the game IMO. Just report and have it checked if it annoys you. Unless it's just made up of course.

Can't be helped if you don't want to do anything about cheaters and prefer to QQ on forums instead...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by American Badass

You need to get a clue before you speak:

[20:59] <@Memster> you know what Zauper... I hate you
[20:59] <@Memster> "The funny part was that cr/havoc came up with strategy and RBLfake rage copied it blindly, kinda sad when you don't come up with your own strategies, copy a lame one, and get owned." -- Proteus
[20:59] <@Memster> :(
[20:59] <@Memster> he thinks you're smart, and we dumb
[21:00] <&maximouse> lol
[21:03] <&zauper> lol
[21:03] <@Memster> If he is going to congratulate a plan
[21:03] <@Memster> At least congratulate the person (kd) that is deserved!

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The funny thing is that only someone like you would think that would be something to brag about, as it seems the rest of LS does there as well. I wouldnt be bragging but embarassed, no wonder you never make progress or learn anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drixx

I'm not actually in his kingdom. I run a different kingdom. I've already spoken privately to you, but there is an observation that seems necessary:

Last age, what was going on was kds would get a province of theirs heavy chained to point where it had no military and thus couldn't take or hold onto any land or do any damage to the enemy kd. Provs which were, for all intents and purposes, out of the war. The reset in that case took a province from being completely out of the war to being able to come back into the fight with huge military, without the need to even receive aid.

You did not consider that to be abuse. That was tantamount to buying warwins, and I said as much and made a suggestion thread, and you implemented a solution I suggested.

Havoc aiding out from two provs and then paying to reset them (and in a war, no less so the oop was 72 hours and not 24) is considerably less swingy to a conflict. It's nowhere near the amount of added military and resources as what was going on last age.

So you took an objectively worse case and said it wasn't abuse, even though it amounted to buying warwins so long as a kd was willing to pay $2.40 per chained prov they wanted to buy back into the war with.

But a far smaller usage caused you to change your position completely about whether it was abuse or not.

The only meaningful difference I can see is that Havoc plays in the top and the smaller kd who was abusing last age was way down the charts.


--------------------------

That said, my kingdom will always follow the rules, and even though I believe that this is an ex post facto application, which real world legal systems recognize as wrong, we still just dropped nearly $100 into the game to reset our kd and be on the right side of the rule change that you made.

I would suggest in the future that people not be punished ex post facto simply because if you (as the sole arbiter of what is right/wrong) are on the record that something is acceptable, and then change your mind, people should not be retroactively punished for doing it before you changed your mind about whether it was abuse or not. The whole idea of ex post facto laws are actually a huge part of what sparked the American Revolution nearly 250 years ago.

And before anyone trolls; yes, I am aware that this is a game and not the real world, but the analogy is useful and fits the situation.

---------------------------------------------

@Proteus - LOL. It's really amusing when you say something so incredibly wrong and everyone knows it but you. Also ... pay KuHaN his money. You can't be prestigious if you don't pay your bets.

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Now I see what all the problem was there, you have been wanting to become a CR 2.0 and will do anything at any cost to win (even go so far as to pay real life money to have an advantage over other players as integral to your metagame), I guess when you cant beat people with your brains the next best thing is to try and use the bank account. From a guy who claims to champion fair-play and ethics, here is another embarrassing moment for you.



Funny thing is I bet you and CR used mostly War Hero, wonder where you got that idea CTFU.

looks like CR is still pissed at Pyros for using support mail function.

If you think something breaks the rules, doesnt hurt to take 2mins to write and send an email. If it doesnt work, so be it. If it works, so be it.

-cJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheOne

looks like CR is still pissed at Pyros for using support mail function.

If you think something breaks the rules, doesnt hurt to take 2mins to write and send an email. If it doesnt work, so be it. If it works, so be it.

-cJ

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I'm still pissed at pyro players making quips about "fair play" When last age they

Farmed 150 million gc from an ally 3 days before a conflict with us
Farmed out millions and millions of science to same ally after conflict
Threatened to hit into war because they still had a dragon aimed at you
Pretty much just lameness all around.
You twist words I said to you while playing sc2 to serve your agenda
You make baseless claims against hawk and personally attack his character
Your paranoia turns every little thing you can concieve into us being evil. (We knew where pyro was at begining of age, knew you were going to suck, and completely planned to wave you pre-age because you were pyro and **** pyro. I believe this is your mindset atm?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flogger

FWIW I don't keep logs and stuff but I can confirm Hawk used to spy on me and his co-monarch (Tonya's) PM's. We used to say things on absnet just to throw him off the trail and we'd talk for real on utonet. We caught him in doing so with disinformation.

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So convenient that you don't keep logs eh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick_mi

I'm still pissed at pyro players making quips about "fair play" When last age they

Farmed 150 million gc from an ally 3 days before a conflict with us
Farmed out millions and millions of science to same ally after conflict
Threatened to hit into war because they still had a dragon aimed at you
Pretty much just lameness all around.
You twist words I said to you while playing sc2 to serve your agenda
You make baseless claims against hawk and personally attack his character
Your paranoia turns every little thing you can concieve into us being evil. (We knew where pyro was at begining of age, knew you were going to suck, and completely planned to wave you pre-age because you were pyro and **** pyro. I believe this is your mindset atm?)

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1. get your numbers right
2. there were several other kingdoms taking science, and it was from a prov that was going to be razed killed within a few hours. whoever asked us whether they could learn, we said yes.
3. so threatening is something wrong now and needs to be actioned? then CR threatened to hit AMA if AMA dodged CR, and it was mentioned in public by many of your kingdom mates. in addition, get your ethics right. So did i apologise for it after it? yes i did so openly. Did you guy ever apologise for threatening? no you didnt. did pyro cancel drake after smashing simians in a war? yes we did out of good faith, but Simians decided not to.
4. you said in the sc2 game that you guys discovered something real sick and there's a possibility of being actioned for it. maybe i should re-watch the stream i recorded and post it?
5. i clearly intentionally didnt type hawk's name, as I still respect him while referencing him as the admin of absnet. I even said thanks for hosting us while we will be moving on. There are other leaders (whom I wont name, except for flogger as he has publicly said), that told me that ABSnet can be spied on. Did I conclusively say that CR spied on us? No I didnt. Did I say we'll be taking precautions and moving out? Yes I did.

If you really want to make this into a flaming thread about past history, should I list down some of the dirty stuff CR did last age which was never publicly revealed? Such as dealbreaking Legacy twice during the age? Such as planning to wave pyro early-mid age and deal break us? What about CR was the 2nd kingdom to hit Fratzia (after Pyros hit them), and doubling hostile them.. and then took all the good gains and walked away when 1 of your leaders said that we will work out a 3 way hostile? Nope you didnt do that, you just decided to let Fratz slow us down.
How about 2 ages ago, you were supposed to war us (after Pyro-ED) and we arranged acres cap + kingdom land structure for both kingdoms.. But you guys were afraid to war then and explored Mango past the size that you all mentioned you would do so (after you guys were being LD by EJ).

How about Pyros should be angry because you all publicly flamed some kingdom members of Pyros + Pyros + myself in IRC after being actioned? I still respect some members of CR such as munk, zauper and a few others as they either dont publicly display their hatred against Pyro (for this admin action) or they probably know that Pyro did nothing wrong by reporting it. However, some of your guys just go on massive QQ and blaming others before looking at the mirror.

Every war that CR is in, there's massive QQ threads. When was the last time that CR experienced a non-qq war?

You guys have the most experienced roster in Utopia and should be showing a good example to the community on how to act in the game.

It is such a pity that because of all these issues, looks like some friendships bridges would probably need to be burnt. Always had fun talking to Nick_Mi + Hawk on IRC.

-cJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick_mi

I like the part where Palem reasons pay to win as bad in a game that has sitting(pay for it of course)

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I'm pretty sure sitting was introduced to reduce/remove the amount of xlogging. Sitting doesn't generate anything either

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zauper

Was it against the rules when Sanc and BB decided to reset provs into fae in consecutive ages because they realized fae made for a better setup?

Was it against the rules when we reset a prov during protection because we realized he had the wrong personality?

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I'm pretty confident neither of those cases are similar to what you/Rage did... they where also both done in a time where you had a 72 hour protection and not a 24 hour one. Different time, different mechanic. Apples and peaches

While every situation is obviously different, capricious enforcement of rules is pretty bad. It leads to a lack of confidence in authority figures and general disdain for the set of guidelines. People have to be able to proceed with some degree of faith that stuff that was okay before is going to be okay after.

Furthermore, consequences should be proportional to the crime. Why not release an amount more equivalent to the amount of aid that was given out? Why not wait until their troops were home so that all their def wasn't released? If you felt something needed to be done, couldn't it be managed better?

Sure, it was a loophole, and the reset mechanic does not exist to allow people to immediately aid and reset. But isn't that the point of the changes... to de-incentivize it so much that it becomes worse than having done it in the first place? So mis-using the loophole is already handicapped enough by the new reset timers?

Lastly, if this "violation" was so egregious, why was there no communication of this to the player-base? You clearly saw some opportunity for mis-use or abuse, which is what led to the code changes in the first place... so you would have had some awareness that people might go for it. Why not let people know ahead of time that it wasn't going to be acceptable?

Wouldn't it be better to close the loophole that you knew existed rather than hang someone once they stepped through it?

It is easy to spot the bad things that people do, as people only look/see/remember the bad stuff.

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheOne

1. get your numbers right

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It doesn't matter what the number is. If you stole any GC from your ally, how is it any different than what we're allegedly doing ? We both allegedly are going for a leg up using means that shouldn't be available (inter-kingdom aid).

This is my point about top kingdoms doing 100 different things that fall under the spirit of the game clause that could now be actionable under the new Bishop regime.

I'm not personally saying that what you did should be actionable and I certainly wouldn't report it to Bishop because that would just be dumb. But also reporting us is dumb. And Bishop is even worse. He should know better than to action something like this. In 17 years, I've never seen a worse decision. Going into people's accounts because the balancing fix wasn't severe enough? You've gotta be kidding me. Anyone who thinks what Bishop did was good for utopia has no clue what just what you've lost. Strategies are no longer evaulated on "is it a bug?" They are evaluated on "Does Bishop like what you did?" "Does Bishop think you're a bad person?" "Is this strategy against the spirit of the rules?" Well what exactly is spirit of the rules? Because the utopia I know is a war strategy game where your job is to kill, steal, lie if you want to (AMA dealbreaking), to beat everyone else. There are no ethics. There are just overreactions... and this is one of them. Now when people come up with a good strategy, they have to inform Bishop ahead of time so he fixes it before you can use it. There is no more innovation.

And the reason I think everyone is pissed off at you cJ is because you got the admins involved instead of just dealing with the cards. Did we QQ to Bishop when we found out about your gold trade? Nah we just owned your face. You're just a pansy dressed like a man.

And as far as BB being the most ethical kingdom, they hacked a prov. End of story.


I'll close with this from the rule book, since everyone loves to quote it and try to come up with reasons why people are doing "bad things"
Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

Is it deception if you inform a kingdom that you have a CF with them and break it? Is this meant exclusively for money fraud? How do we know how Bishop is feeling that day? You could lose some military for it if the super police don't like your attitude or your tone. You can choose to be sheep or you can stand up against it before it happens to your kingdom and cJ reports for 100 different things in hopes one of them gets a prov suspended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tetley

While every situation is obviously different, capricious enforcement of rules is pretty bad. It leads to a lack of confidence in authority figures and general disdain for the set of guidelines. People have to be able to proceed with some degree of faith that stuff that was okay before is going to be okay after.

Furthermore, consequences should be proportional to the crime. Why not release an amount more equivalent to the amount of aid that was given out? Why not wait until their troops were home so that all their def wasn't released? If you felt something needed to be done, couldn't it be managed better?

Sure, it was a loophole, and the reset mechanic does not exist to allow people to immediately aid and reset. But isn't that the point of the changes... to de-incentivize it so much that it becomes worse than having done it in the first place? So mis-using the loophole is already handicapped enough by the new reset timers?

Lastly, if this "violation" was so egregious, why was there no communication of this to the player-base? You clearly saw some opportunity for mis-use or abuse, which is what led to the code changes in the first place... so you would have had some awareness that people might go for it. Why not let people know ahead of time that it wasn't going to be acceptable?

Wouldn't it be better to close the loophole that you knew existed rather than hang someone once they stepped through it?

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RTFM? It's punishable by deletion; I'd say it was pretty well balanced punishment. Again, it's not a 0-sum equation. Break the rules and be prepared to lose more than you gained/put into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheOne

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

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I think BB and AMA are very close in this list :)
Just BB are so peaceful kd and AMA is kinda scary :P


p.s.
Godly,
AMA never del broke you. Its was Havoc broke his deal with us serve pre notice on notice when deal dont give you this right.
To sum it: Godly is cheater and deal breaker!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheOne

It is easy to spot the bad things that people do, as people only look/see/remember the bad stuff.

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

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Yes, create the thread. Regarding BB, they played fair last ages from my perspective but they also have a bad history in many ways. I can mention several things that was borderline. (Flogger warring HoH and wding right before EoA to give them crown, yes, Flogger played together with Ravenant before and Flogger told me they had EoA cf, you can call it friendly war, but when warring a KD so much bigger before EoA to give them warwin, its not about being friendly, its about giving HoH the charity crown, it is probably worse then what my own KD did, because BB never got cornered into doing it, they just set it up to hand HoH the crown). Little do we speak about this, because, its BB, they all so fair over there, they only hacked provs and powerplayed etc. Id like only to highlight that none of the KDs above has been fair in the past but is trying to change and some of them played for for the last 2-3 ages at least. More then we can say about pyromaniacs that use allies to fund thier own wars to have a better chance of winning the wars. I dont buy all of your BS cJ and i think more and more people have learnt to see thru it. Does not matter how much bold and underlined text you use. Also, from what i know, you have no idea of what has been going on in the top before you came there so stop acting as if you know **** about it. You can talk about last 2 ages etc all you like, but dont pretend you know what went down before this and in what way it went down. The top been poluted forever and BB nor Simians, AMA, pew or anyone else up there is free from ****play. All done it, some done it better then others, some tried to hide it or managed to hide it better and some just done it right infront everyone else. Almost like Pyro thinks no one will notice how they farm allies for gc to get edge in top wars. cJ, its okey if you want to post all good deeds you done, id like to see that list.

You still dont get it do you, we want to make the future of this game better, what happend in the past does not matter and you certainly do not know much about the past so you are the last player that should say something about it.

Using a game mechanics to thier strength has NOTHING to do with fair play to avoid dealbreaks and all of that. Mechanics is a whole other topic. Dont twist your head to much over it. I know you cant tell the difference.

Maybe you can go report the one that sent you 25 messages to Bishop, if you figured out yet why it was done. Its a flaw in the system as well. big lol on that one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godly

It doesn't matter what the number is. If you stole any GC from your ally, how is it any different than what we're allegedly doing ? We both allegedly are going for a leg up using means that shouldn't be available (inter-kingdom aid).

This is my point about top kingdoms doing 100 different things that fall under the spirit of the game clause that could now be actionable under the new Bishop regime.

I'm not personally saying that what you did should be actionable and I certainly wouldn't report it to Bishop because that would just be dumb. But also reporting us is dumb. And Bishop is even worse. He should know better than to action something like this. In 17 years, I've never seen a worse decision. Going into people's accounts because the balancing fix wasn't severe enough? You've gotta be kidding me. Anyone who thinks what Bishop did was good for utopia has no clue what just what you've lost. Strategies are no longer evaulated on "is it a bug?" They are evaluated on "Does Bishop like what you did?" "Does Bishop think you're a bad person?" "Is this strategy against the spirit of the rules?" Well what exactly is spirit of the rules? Because the utopia I know is a war strategy game where your job is to kill, steal, lie if you want to (AMA dealbreaking), to beat everyone else. There are no ethics. There are just overreactions... and this is one of them. Now when people come up with a good strategy, they have to inform Bishop ahead of time so he fixes it before you can use it. There is no more innovation.

And the reason I think everyone is pissed off at you cJ is because you got the admins involved instead of just dealing with the cards. Did we QQ to Bishop when we found out about your gold trade? Nah we just owned your face. You're just a pansy dressed like a man.

And as far as BB being the most ethical kingdom, they hacked a prov. End of story.


I'll close with this from the rule book, since everyone loves to quote it and try to come up with reasons why people are doing "bad things"
Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

Is it deception if you inform a kingdom that you have a CF with them and break it? Is this meant exclusively for money fraud? How do we know how Bishop is feeling that day? You could lose some military for it if the super police don't like your attitude or your tone. You can choose to be sheep or you can stand up against it before it happens to your kingdom and cJ reports for 100 different things in hopes one of them gets a prov suspended.

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tldr: stop cheating Godly.

Anri, just go and lose yourself a war...

What's your win rate, 15%.... for the last 2 years?

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

BB hacked an account, AMA dealbroke. If you ask me, that puts both kingdoms at the bottom of the list. What did we do? We used a tactic that the admin claimed is legal. Much cheat. Such wow.

Godly, I can bet with you that there's at least >5 mails regarding this mechanic abuse. And there were definitely many non-Pyros that mailed too. So yeah target me all you want, but at least I will say openly that I did mailed. I saw something which is against the rules of 'Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.'

Maybe you can ask Bishop on how many actually reported?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godly

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

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Oh, i didn't realise your guys respawned after being razekilled and that this actually occurred last age when that quote was relevant. I thought this happened this age after your guys abused the reset mechanic to funnel aid out.

http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images...s/rolleyes.png

Why would 5 kingdoms send out mail? Answer: You told them to. Why would anyone else even notice this let alone care? You're such a joke.

Godly would make a good used car salesman!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godly

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

BB hacked an account, AMA dealbroke. If you ask me, that puts both kingdoms at the bottom of the list. What did we do? We used a tactic that the admin claimed is legal. Much cheat. Such wow.

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I dont see how you dont understand this, its not against the rules to reset. But abusing the reset function as you did is. You claim to be a smart guy how can you not comprehend this simple fact?

Dont forget that you abused game mechanics last age as well thou it wasnt actioned on.