Most KDs don't pull whatever stunt that comes to mind, since it could hit you back at an inconvenient time. Common knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
Nah, I was the dwarf who dodged being razekilled. Was fun.
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Most KDs don't pull whatever stunt that comes to mind, since it could hit you back at an inconvenient time. Common knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
Nah, I was the dwarf who dodged being razekilled. Was fun.
Do you have any evidence that you actually offered this deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
Maybe the twisted version in your head does. We are very reasonable, we offered a CF long time ago, all you have to do is accept it. If you really compare this conflict with last age's conflict you are just blatantly ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taraxacum
Is that like how your leadership decided not to accept a CF offer for two weeks last age? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
Aranfein, this is not a 1 on 1. We quit this a while ago, we did not attack nor op ED and we offered them a CF. ED put up a fake hostile tag so they can farm us out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Zauper, ED could have negotiated a CF any second last age. This conflict, we really tried to negotiate, but demands are simply insulting and retarded. So yes, that is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Sorry, but you're an absolute cretin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
Not only is all of the trash you're posting directly in conflict to what FS monarch was telling ED last age (about how FS had every right to keep hitting ED till end of the age if they wanted to, even if ED was in war with someone else), but your actual argument is so stupid that it is unbelieveable.
So by your logic KD A could double up their banks and have them totally underdefended/be fat as hell and KD B waves them, all they need to do is go "WE'RE NOT HOSTILE" and it gives carte blanche to KD As alliance mates KD C to double hostile KD B (whos troops are out and resources spent) so they can protect KD A.
You come across in all your posts as naive and idiotic, which isn't a great suprise considering what you're trying to argue against (wonder if there's anyone who isn't in FS/hates ED who actually agrees with you on any points, doesn't seem to be cause even Feint who hates ED is siding with us). Being waved and double/tripple tapped 16 hours after a KD decides that they're no longer hostile so your KD is fair game, without getting any from of notice is bull**** & done because bunch of neckbeards won AWAR and think they now run the server.
how many ages long do you keep your logs? i havent been in top ever so i dont know how long i should, but if you doubt anything im saying - you can just look at our earlier wave on ed this age which was cfed after much less than a wave.. i also find it intriguing coming from you, as im pretty sure you perfectly know every detail of ed vs fs fight of last age - and im pretty sure ive told you that its just keeping on because ed refuses to give anything for free..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Well I'm from FS, what else can you expect ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Still, this is not a 1 on 1, as we (FS) are not participating in the fight anymore and hitting elsewhere. For a 1 on 1 you need 2 kingdoms, if I am not mistaken. Maybe simple logic is just not for you...
Do not insult other users. Bans handed out.
I keep my logs indefinitely until a computer dies. I'm currently going through my 66MB logfile from ED looking for an offer like that and coming up short. In fact, there is no message to that extent that I can find between April 1 and April 8 (the '750 honor' convo). I think that's around when i get back.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
I was on vacation for the earlier part of the conflict, so I'm not really sure what happened in it.
Seems like the shoe's on the other foot now for all parties involved. Hypocrisy abounds.
How about your logs with Francis ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
lets assume im all out lying and havent offered them anything - isnt it ed as the defender who needs to make some offers? anybody care to show me anything where ed makes any offers other than 'empty' cfs? when you repeatedly get 'empty' cf offers for +1 weeks, you just freak out in the end - just take a moment the full log of that '750 honor' convo, and see how it develops..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
My logs with Francis begin on April 21st, and '750 honor' conversation occurred on April 8th -- 2 weeks prior.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Those logs focus on the data around who explored when, which isn't entirely relevant to this? I think the conclusion we (Francis and I) drew was that FS explored ~4k acres and randomed for another 3k in that time period, after ED told them that they weren't going to explore to match and if FS wanted to explore they weren't interested.
I can post it if you care :p
It's a two way street. They can look at it and say 'FS wasted our time by not committing to fighting, exploring, etc' (which is all true -- no agreement you'd war them if they matched your growth). Which is what they say. So they look at that and go well, why does FS deserve anything free? If they insist, we'll hold a grudge. You guys insisted, they held a grudge and went after you this age -- fairly so. And are ok with a reasonable offer after only 3 days. Seems like they're more reasonable than you?Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
At the time of the 750 honor conversation, you were up ~20k acres (and like 100k?) and ~10k honor? I'd likely CF for free in that situation, that's the equivalent of already being up multiple free waves?
Having said all that, you're right -- it's not the aggressors job to present offers. Although, at some point you have to accept either that you're bullying someone and there could be consequences (in future ages?). At the same time, the logs seem to say that you guys believed you were in conflict when neither side was hostile, and no hits had been exchanged for 24h+. How do you reconcile that with your approach this age?
We never denied exploring AFTER ed refused war. But that would be mulling over the same old **** ... i was hoping for some insight in cf talks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Francis didnt saved his logs and anyhting sent in pm's got lost in forum wipe.
Werent they up like 20k+ acres and 10k+ honor when we decided to roll over this age ? + whatever they had incoming since we stopped retaling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
e: i re-read your post, removing the logs about exploring. Francis and I talking about the CF stuff was kinda irrelevant since it was ~3-4 weeks into conflict?Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
This is really all we said about CFs:
Quote:
Apr 21 16:41:26 <Francis> seriously, what is it there to be so butthurt over it
Apr 21 16:41:40 <Francis> why cant we walk away in peace after ending conflict
Apr 21 16:41:47 <zauper> i think
Apr 21 16:41:55 <zauper> from their perspective, they don't really care about it much anymore :p
Apr 21 16:42:02 <zauper> and it's just that both sides keep arguing that keeps them arguing
Apr 21 16:42:05 <zauper> inertia, if you will
Apr 21 16:42:36 <Francis> its alrdy out of control
Citedella: They are not yet up 20k vs you (18k via hits? Not sure if you guys used much LL considering all the mystics or not). Can't speak to honor, think it's in the 8-10k range. So yes, approaching the same place as last age when we go the 750 honor discussion -- and yet ED is open to a reasonable resolution at this point. A full wave, which is your definition of reasonable, would leave them up as much as you were last age when that discussion took place.
we have approached ed before this conflict, and asked for prolonging the cf we had.. they refused and we have told them that if they wave us, the options are - we give them a free wave and cf, or they dont accept this and try to feed on us, but war is not an option for us at this point.. we didnt try to run away without making any concessions like they tried last age, and we have made our fair share of attempts to end this - but they thought they can push us around as much as they like and get away with that..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
They offered you what you went to them looking for?Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
Like I said previously -- in top conflicts, we often see the equivalent of 2-3 waves for CF deals, especially later in the age. Given the feelings about eachother, asking for a little more than that isn't that extreme. Their ask was 4 waves, correct? (It's also hard to take honor OOW which could contribute)Quote:
[15:12] <Parthenogenesis> I know they had some provs restart, but that was a while ago. They just had a big fat farm war and an eowcf. If we gave them time, hypothetically, they would just try to outgrow us. Its the game they played last age.
[15:13] <protector> Francis asked me if I knew your KD, said something about you'd likely look to be vulturing them oow. I knew you/helluva so I said I could ask if there could be made some arrangements
[15:14] <protector> Lets say you do give time, could make it a formal agreement they dont add more land in the mean time and use it to prepare for you?
[15:14] <Parthenogenesis> Im surprised he asked you. I know him well. I talked plenty with him last age, he could have come to me.
[15:14] <protector> I dont think he knew who you are
[15:14] <Parthenogenesis> could be
[15:15] <protector> Want me to tell him to come and talk to you directly instead?
[15:15] <Parthenogenesis> like I said, I have very little love for him or his kd, so Im sceptical. We can discuss if there is some deal we could agree to tho.
[15:15] <Parthenogenesis> God no, I hate talking to him.
[15:17] <protector> kk ;p
[15:17] <protector> He told me any day extra is welcome, so I dont know what you'd want to give and under which conditions
[17:10] <Parthenogenesis> hey
[17:10] * Looking up protector user info...
[17:10] * Looking up protector user info...
[17:18] <Parthenogenesis> We have a proposal, if youd like to forward it. They can have a short extension, on some conditions. Both KD's agree to no growth. Comes sunday, thy yield button with at least 2 hour margin before daychange decays it. That will give them 2.5 days extra for prepping or so.
[17:22] <Parthenogenesis> In utotime, we're talking...lets say june 13 up until daychange, where they have to yield button.
I was actually hopig to avoid that line of conversation ... its kinda offtopic. I will adress it tho and you feel free to add anything if you think its important.
Apr 21 16:21:31 <zauper> ok so, on apr13, you guys have gained 2.5k acres from conflict. So they've explored or hit outside for 2.5k acres, and you guys have explored ~5.2k acres.
Key line, we were both growing. Also it is not mentioned here but their main complaint was about growing ub tm's which was disproved later on, growth on elves came way later when war was completely out of the picture.
That land was gained on orcs who were under pressure to not get caught with troops home at potential wave. We were both doind same thing, only we were more succesfull. But frankly at that point we were still within like 5% nw land and that was peanuts
I removed those logs, sorry, I had misread :pQuote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
no, I am grateful, they contained link that allowed me to track down cached version of that thread.
I will go through it to track down ingame msgs about cf talks.
Here are some logs about this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Not entirely sure how to reconcile that. Last age, FS says that they consider their conflict (and OOW retal conflict) to be a war, and ED can't get out by going into conflict elsewhere (or presumably by not hitting), but this age FS can?Quote:
<Parthenogenesis> Hey I got a question. We're obviously interested in moving on, so, lets for the sake of argument say we get into a war. What would you do?
<Francis> i consider what we have as a war already, it wouldnt be advisable to have 2 wars at once
the difference is, they were hoping to run away without making any efforts to make a cf, now they try to take us into same position but its still them who blocked possible diplo solutions.. if they had stopped retaling last age and let us take our unretaled hits, we would have moved on right on the spot just like we did earlier this age..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
So if you're making 50 hits/day, and they're making a max of what, 15 hits/day? that's not essentially unretalled hits? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
For those interested, starting stats -- ED has +120k units, but 20k less in training (10k in training vs 30k in training) and obviously significantly lower twpa considering relative NWs/acres/etc.
[quote]
<ED> We have: 62k acres | 10,086k nw | tpa+wpa+sci 1,525k nw |*385k peons | 884k units (+13k solds) | 1,465k income (662k TOG) | 864k wages | 20,822k gc | 2,791k runes | 3,582k food
<FS> They have: 58k acres | 9,567k nw | tpa+wpa+sci 1,754k nw |*394k peons | 766k units (+29k solds) | 1,421k income (71k TOG) | 627k wages | 11,613k gc | 2,033k runes | 3,088k food
[QUOTE=Zauper;15342645]So if you're making 50 hits/day, and they're making a max of what, 15 hits/day? that's not essentially unretalled hits? :p
For those interested, starting stats -- ED has +120k units, but 20k less in training (10k in training vs 30k in training) and obviously significantly lower twpa considering relative NWs/acres/etc.
i belive those are stats from this age after their initial wave, but i fail to find the point where they have 10m nw? they had 62400 acres when they waved us with 10.2m nw, but they were 10.8m nw a few hours after on same land (obviously they had a lot more in training or were hiding most of their nw within in-progress buildings - feel free to go to munk and analyze the data..Quote:
<ED> We have: 62k acres | 10,086k nw | tpa+wpa+sci 1,525k nw |*385k peons | 884k units (+13k solds) | 1,465k income (662k TOG) | 864k wages | 20,822k gc | 2,791k runes | 3,582k food
<FS> They have: 58k acres | 9,567k nw | tpa+wpa+sci 1,754k nw |*394k peons | 766k units (+29k solds) | 1,421k income (71k TOG) | 627k wages | 11,613k gc | 2,033k runes | 3,088k food
[QUOTE=LoRD_SaMPuaN;15342648]My grab was when they were rebuilding, good catch. That's with a sizable chunk of their land being cycled, not sure about yours (and it is after teh first wave, another good point). Not active enough to get realtime stats :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
We didn't block possible diplo solution at all. In fact I have logs with Ahlene where we dropped the terms of CF to the point she seemingly brought them back to you (or alluded to the fact she did). Seriously, you're reaching now. I can post those logs as well.
Learn2Argue
And lets not forget we were in fort, I wouldnt throw too many estimations as to who had how many troops in training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Couldnt find part with ingame pm's, it was lost :/ only reference to diplo done was one by me stating they refused to concede to anything ... thats pretty worthless as far as proving my point.
Verm and citadela are... Dudes?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
=]
I thought FS wasn't attacking or opping ED?
Odd..
No one else has ops on them, so the LL must have been from FS?Quote:
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 19 acres of land have disappeared from our control!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 14 acres of land have disappeared from our control!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 7 acres of land have disappeared from our control!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 We have found thieves from Yawn (FS) causing trouble within our lands!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 We have found thieves causing trouble within our lands. Unfortunately, we know not where they came from.
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 We have found thieves from Back from the Dead yet Again (FS) causing trouble within our lands!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 We have found thieves from Back from the Dead yet Again (FS) causing trouble within our lands!
<Thauerion> Jan3YR8 We have found thieves causing trouble within our lands. Unfortunately, we know not where they came from.
ed has made 2 full waves since we have stopped and offered cf, and its been more than 24h since we made no hits - why arent they accepting the cf and fighting pyro instead of keeping hits on us? obviously we will fight back at some point..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
I thought you weren't fighting them anymore? You can't have it both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
You also could have accepted their EOACF offer before pyro waved on your behalf...
Wow....just wow...
FS has reached a new low
Clearly it wont be the lowest low.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwuzi
I know, and everyone else is worried about "iffy game practices"..pfft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo
The real problem is the iffy gender identities around here...Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle