It is impossible to believe in Evolution and not be a racist

Trick-question for chalsdk:

How do Arab Christians call their god?

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Originally Posted by Craigus

Can you please explain? I am not sure what this is referring to?
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and these big holes..

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Love to - Like Evolution is a fact, and that anyone who says otherwise is a fool. Ironic it acts as a religion in its own right. There is plenty of Big Gigantic holes in evolution. To take the FACT of evolution in good faith I have problems with - Just the same with religion, or another things.

Things that come to mind that is clearly problematic, "Why Female" - its simply not effective - and even more, how did one Gender pop up one day, and made kids? If it was so why is it not normal to have both sexes, or if you do, its only one part that is working.

so you got tiny bacteria that do not have genders.. and one day a female pub ups?? why? and even more, how does it mate?? The odds of finding a male is so small its none exist.

If Female happened later, its the same thing.

And since there is a Big bang/creation day in sceince - as a final date - I have read that there is a lack of time to randomly create life.. I can find link - dont have it right here. There is simply a lack of time to creative life by Random. -> Will find link.

I have been at university to be trained as a teacher in nature - and there I had a man who claimed that evolution is a fact, while our books had no such claims and it cant be made - that is what the book said, and I asked our teacher/prof to confirm to accept the brand new books we had! and so he did - in time. And my entire class was impressed. These wild wild lies are quite commen outside uni and other places becourse they are supported by the TV and others who dont care what they say, as long as its borderline true - why most TV today is crap - its not like the discovery channel is "Good & well backed knowede".

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Originally Posted by Craigus

My world view is shaped by the evidence, the evidence is not shaped by my world view.

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Thats awesome. As long as you keep an open eye out and an open mind.

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Originally Posted by Craigus

Look up the trials of Dover. They were attempting to teach Intelligent design in schools. During the trials they found many times that they forgot to replace the word "creation" with "intelligent design". Intelligent design is just a creationists attempt to sound scientific.

Here is a doco if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2xyrel-2vI

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Some sum it up - Creation and int. design is not the same thing.
Good Created stuf VS God helped/Guide evolution.
Dont accept darvinian evolution VS Accept it to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Craigus

If me, a layman, can provide these points which contradict your story, then I suggest you look into the evidence for evolution with an open mind.

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You have not - you still going on with mixing up int. design and Creation.

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Originally Posted by Craigus

Science cannot explain everything but science can obtain the most likely answers to our questions. The problem with creation is that it assumes the answer gained from the bible or Quran, then picks and chooses the evidence which supports their story while ignoring the contradictions. How does asking "how long is one day for god?" benefit anyone? you have to establish a god or gods exists before you can ask that question.

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Well - The bible dont claim alot about sceince.. unlike The Quran - and I am not gona defend that as it can not be - like drinking of wells with dead animals is perfectly Good.
However what the bible do claim, no one have jet to disprove. And peaple work HARD on it.
There is no Contradictions in the bible.

And no you dont have to firstly accept that God is there or not. If you allready have stated he is, its not importent. And the very core of this that I am not trying to make a age of the earth - the integent design does. How long was adam and eve in the garden ? dunno.. HE named alot of things, then got a wife.. Migth have been a trillion years, or 1 secound. How long is a day if your outside time?? Does time exist in the garden? how big is it? There is ton a things we dont know, we can argue all day, but its gona be useless, we simply dont know what the bible says.

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Originally Posted by Craigus

50% of Americans could not answer how long it takes for the Earth to orbit the sun. Should we take their word for it too? America has some great scientists, having great scientists doesn't automatically make the general population smarter. Many scientists identify themselves as Jewish while also being atheist. Lawrence Krauss is one of them. Well over 90% of scientists accept evolution, that figure is closer to 100 than it is 90.

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Most americans are not at universites or doing reseach, and that was the ones I was talking about - ill even take that most theologians dont know, even most at university, its NICE to know, but hardly usefull. --> My point was about the peaple who did reasech, not generic murican.

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Originally Posted by Craigus

I prayed when I was a kid, never got an answer. Wind has evidence which we can feel, explain and predict, none of the gods have evidence. With the thousands of gods in human history what makes you think that you were lucky enough to just so happen to be brought up with the teachings of the one true god. If you believe in a particular god, how did you dismiss all the other gods? God should be irrelevant in this conversation because we should only be looking at the evidence to find our answers. You can believe in or not believe in whatever god you like, all I ask is you look at what you can see in reality to determine the most probable answers.

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What I noted when I did become a christian was that God did give me a lot or replays, but I did just not notise them becourse I did not wish to do so. And what makes me think I got the right **** - well I experince God, not just the Idea of God, but direkt.

And if we assume that there is no God, or alike - Why is something wrong? Why is suffering wrong?

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Originally Posted by TommyB

Trick-question for chalsdk:

How do Arab Christians call their god?

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God in their native thounge - A few do Allah, but Allah is the NAME of the islamic God. And yes i know that is the same as "lord" - Funny that they dont use our name when in england then.. funny how there is nearly no christians in the middel east anymore..

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Originally Posted by chalsdk

God in their native thounge - A few do Allah, but Allah is the NAME of the islamic God. And yes i know that is the same as "lord"

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This is incorrect, Allah is the arabic word for god and is used by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike. The word is older than the Islam too so claiming that God and Allah have nothing to do with each other when it is simply the same word in another language is very ignorant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

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Originally Posted by TommyB

How do you know that an Agnostic never thinks about the question of god? Coming to the conclusion that there isn't enough evidence to proof or disproof the existence of god seems valid enough. I don't know if it qualifies as a "belief system" but it doesn't have to. It's a valid answer to the question, no one can force you to make a choice one way or the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

I however doesn't agree that agnosticism isn't a stance, not choosing is also a choice. And it would be rude to Agnostics to claim they havn't thought about it enough, because they may very well have and came to the conclusion that there is no way to know.

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You misunderstand. I didn't mean that Agnostics are agnostic because they haven't given it any thought. That's just the most popular excuse I've heard from people who choose to say.

The reason I don't accept it as a stance is because it's a politically correct cop out. They don't want to ruffle any feathers with their opinion, so they pretend to not have an opinion. You'll notice I say pretend. Even if it's just a naive inclination, I find it impossible that a person doesn't have some .1% sway on whether or not there's an infinitely powerful being above watching over everything you do.

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Originally Posted by Palem

You misunderstand. I didn't mean that Agnostics are agnostic because they haven't given it any thought. That's just the most popular excuse I've heard from people who choose to say.

The reason I don't accept it as a stance is because it's a politically correct cop out. They don't want to ruffle any feathers with their opinion, so they pretend to not have an opinion. You'll notice I say pretend. Even if it's just a naive inclination, I find it impossible that a person doesn't have some .1% sway on whether or not there's an infinitely powerful being above watching over everything you do.

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Some people 100% **intend** to forgo the use of opinion and stick to 100% facts, atheists do not do this, it could be said a true agnostic does this.

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Originally Posted by TommyB

This is incorrect, Allah is the arabic word for god and is used by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike. The word is older than the Islam too so claiming that God and Allah have nothing to do with each other when it is simply the same word in another language is very ignorant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

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Slightly off topic but the word "Allah" is actually the translation of the Hebrew Elohim, well one of the many versions of that word, with a stress on the singleness of God and not like the more commonly used, in Hebrew Elohim, that is plural form of God. That said, it is a prof against Islam that claims that "Allah" is the highest name of God, since clearly if you accept the Old Testament as valid, it is not.

Another endless and fruitless argument of religion on the internet? And for the record, it's entirely possible to believe in God and accept evolution. Christianity and Darwinian evolution don't contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Another endless and fruitless argument of religion on the internet? And for the record, it's entirely possible to believe in God and accept evolution. Christianity and Darwinian evolution don't contradict each other.

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Yes, they do, Darwin's theory is flawed.

You don't need facts to have beliefs. Some beliefs are based solely on the lack of facts.

You also seem to think you can have some control over the things you believe, which is false. You can certainly deny your beliefs, even to yourself, but they're still there and you still believe them. It's like being a Cleveland Browns fan. You can tell people you're not a big football fan and you can even make yourself not watch the games, but when you hear they won, you're happy.

To return to OP post - Why is something wrong or right? Why is suffering wrong? or is it right and why?

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Originally Posted by Palem

You don't need facts to have beliefs. Some beliefs are based solely on the lack of facts.

You also seem to think you can have some control over the things you believe, which is false. You can certainly deny your beliefs, even to yourself, but they're still there and you still believe them. It's like being a Cleveland Browns fan. You can tell people you're not a big football fan and you can even make yourself not watch the games, but when you hear they won, you're happy.

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Unless you actually have power over your self to decided for 100% truth you do not like them anymore and football etc -- yes, people can have genuine control over their beliefs.

Beliefs based on facts > beliefs based on fantasy.

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

Unless you actually have power over your self to decided for 100% truth you do not like them anymore and football etc -- yes, people can have genuine control over their beliefs.

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No. Beliefs change over external thing. At one point you prolly believed in Santa Claus and then some stuff happened and you were like "nah, don't believe that stuff anymore". I'd be interested if you can find a counterexample :)

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Beliefs based on facts > beliefs based on fantasy.

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Depends on what you mean by greater than. The passion and dedication people show as a result of their religious faiths is really remarkable. Such dedication to "facts" is pretty rare. Even hardcore men of science need to pick up the occasional piece of fiction to keep themselves entertained.

I've seen people get into actual over star wars. You won't find such passion surrounding carbon isotopes.

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

Slightly off topic but the word "Allah" is actually the translation of the Hebrew Elohim

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Either that or they are simply derived from the same origin. According to the wiki article the oldest evidence of the word dates back to ancient babylonian stone tablets ca. 1700 BC.

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Originally Posted by Palem

No. Beliefs change over external thing. At one point you prolly believed in Santa Claus and then some stuff happened and you were like "nah, don't believe that stuff anymore". I'd be interested if you can find a counterexample :)

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Many people would describe that example as you, consciously or unconsciously, making a decision to not believe it anymore instead of having been forced upon you by external forces and against your will.