Havoc vs BB BUM BUM BUM !

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Originally Posted by flogger

People had asked me early this age why I mocked human bank so much, and the first exchange sorta sums it up. If you play a turtle bank race, can get hit turtled and your enemy still has offense to bush 4 def elites and you lose 31k troops to your own 11k in the exchange...... its probably a pretty bad banking race. Its main redeeming quality is that its likely to lose so much land that it can meteor effectively afterwards.

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a) Is there a hospitals disparity or just the ambush that accounts for the difference? If it's just the ambush, couldn't the problem be solved by anoning?
b) Another consideration is that an unbreakable human cow is perhaps better than a UB dwarf because of TOG.

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Originally Posted by Pillz

Time to put up or shut up, flogger.

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You guys are funny jokers. :) You notice BB and then ask them to make the first move?? :)

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Originally Posted by tetley

a) Is there a hospitals disparity or just the ambush that accounts for the difference? If it's just the ambush, couldn't the problem be solved by anoning?
b) Another consideration is that an unbreakable human cow is perhaps better than a UB dwarf because of TOG.

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a) Big hosps disparity as with the larger cows we had to defend against bouncing, and their war build was going for a more UB strat without hosps. We also hit all home vs them hitting with us out, plus ambush kills are usually fairly high. Our banks are pretty much clerics with dwarven hosps.

b) Tog on 20k pez and no banks isn't terribly much when your wages are 250k. Eventually the pez will grow where it might be a factor, but not likely before we're in war, and not when he still has ample GC stocks.

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Originally Posted by flogger

a) Big hosps disparity as with the larger cows we had to defend against bouncing, and their war build was going for a more UB strat without hosps. We also hit all home vs them hitting with us out, plus ambush kills are usually fairly high. Our banks are pretty much clerics with dwarven hosps.

b) Tog on 20k pez and no banks isn't terribly much when your wages are 250k. Eventually the pez will grow where it might be a factor, but not likely before we're in war, and not when he still has ample GC stocks.

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Had Havocs bank been sage with some good sci ( he should had been at 20% be sci at least by now, and 30% gains sci to outgain the dorf bank) and carried enough hosps (mystery to me why he didnt) the difference in losses would had been alot less.

Ur dorf sage have 21% more BE then their human mystic right now with dorf BE bonus, so I assume ur science isnt all that sexy? u raised ur dorf a while after they raised their human giving him more sci pump time?

Had he gotten 10% more be sci as sage, say 75% vs ur 85% then ur hosps would had been quite equal (-40% losses for dorf vs -35% for human). And the losses wouldnt had been so huge so that u sit with 95k more troops then him right now, and Havoc afraid to war because u would farm him out.

Had he been at 20% pop sci as he also should as sage ur pop would had been more equal and thus the starting amount of army too. And u wouldnt had been able to break him all home without suiciding.


A human sage bank played somewhat right would had been able to match ur dorf sage bank. So I dont agree that dorf cow is that much better then human cow. I think they are pretty equal given the right setup.

Just because ur cow is setup and played alot better then Havocs cow doesnt mean dorf cows automatically is superior to human cows.

But of course dorf sage beat human mystic, just as human sage would beat dorf mystic ;)

Ok that post was a bit of a mess and maybe not to well structured, but im sitting here auditing 3 different companies while writing so I blame it on work ;)

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Originally Posted by Shai

Ok that post was a bit of a mess and maybe not to well structured, but im sitting here auditing 3 different companies while writing so I blame it on work ;)

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The "if he was x" aren't really relevant though. You'd end up with different strategies on both sides if the personalities would be switched.
The only difference between a human sage bank and a human mystic bank is the free books. A sage needs more guilds to get WPA and none/less schools for extreme science, a mystic switches those. A sage likely makes more GC though, -50% sci costs are pretty big.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Ok that post was a bit of a mess and maybe not to well structured, but im sitting here auditing 3 different companies while writing so I blame it on work ;)

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Fair enough excuse if you ask me. You may proceed :P

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Originally Posted by prot

The "if he was x" aren't really relevant though. You'd end up with different strategies on both sides if the personalities would be switched.
The only difference between a human sage bank and a human mystic bank is the free books. A sage needs more guilds to get WPA and none/less schools for extreme science, a mystic switches those. A sage likely makes more GC though, -50% sci costs are pretty big.

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Not relevant to the specific case of BB vs Havoc as they are what they are, but relevant to the general statement that dorf cows own human cows.

-50% sci cost is more then "pretty big", its huge as it let a human sit on exteme sci more then half the age, even at 55% draft. While a mystic need to be like 30% draft to afford it.

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Originally Posted by MrCurious

Fair enough excuse if you ask me. You may proceed :P

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You're too kind MrCurious!

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Originally Posted by Pillz

Flogger is trying his best to play-up his situation, but unfortunately actions speak louder than words.
He and BB have been waiting for us since Fratzia withdrew, if not while the war was ongoing. They spent a significant amount of time prepping for us (longer then we were for them) and knew exactly when we were coming for them, yet insisted on running to fortified just prior to that.

Now he is trying to pretend that having an exchange of bank hits that ended with him gaining 50 acres is some sort of significant victory.

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Wow you don't have a clue do you. I actually had no idea you played in havoc until now..

You guys noticed BB yourselves when they asked to extend so why are you expecting them open on you. You wanted the fight, go start it.

Not sure how you don't know this but it has nothing to do with bank acres atm. You are at a huge disadvantage in cow fight and your human is going to be farmed quickly. It's not BBs fault you also decided to run Hu cow.

Its okay to be afraid, guys. I understand you're scared of losing the age. But it's pretty sad when you brag about being able to x7 our terrible human bank and then refuse to multitap it or come OOF when we open it up to you with no defense.

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Originally Posted by Pillz

Its okay to be afraid, guys. I understand you're scared of losing the age. But it's pretty sad when you brag about being able to x7 our terrible human bank and then refuse to multitap it or come OOF when we open it up to you with no defense.

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I don't play in Bb. And it's called strategy, noobs say someone is afraid but thats not the case.

We have to start off a little slow. The last time we dominated BB in hostile, they hacked us.

Godly, you are a fool. Before you are embarassed too much, I think the going rate for a CF right now would be around 25k acres. flogger offered to extend the original one and you guys turned it down. Now it is going to cost you guys. You should seriously start considering it. Mango alone is about to lose 10k in a war.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Not relevant to the specific case of BB vs Havoc as they are what they are, but relevant to the general statement that dorf cows own human cows.

-50% sci cost is more then "pretty big", its huge as it let a human sit on exteme sci more then half the age, even at 55% draft. While a mystic need to be like 30% draft to afford it.

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The biggest thing for the comparison, actually, is figuring out the answer to this:
How does a dwarf close a ~100mil GC gap between him and a competing cow in under a week? That's what mango had to do.

As far as 'omg u guys noticed them', stop being silly. We asked flogger for an extension, he declined. When he declined, we told him that meant we would be fighting. We may have delivered the formal notice, but with his refusal to extend, he started the conflict.