Simians Vs Sanc, HoH or Rage

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Originally Posted by Palem

No, when jdorje wants to call my play "dishonorable" and then does this, I'm compelled to say something.



I'm not solely blaming anyone of anything. This isn't the first time Simians have goofed this age with not considering consequences. They assume things will go as they planned and when they don't they have a hard time getting the train back on the tracks.

What I am doing is calling out jdorje for calling my kd dirty when they're pulling pretty much the EXACT same thing that we did to them and within mere hours, before their own leadership bothered to try and talk with me I've got abs leaders breathing down my neck. No, you can't call another kd dishonorable for doing something and then later come back, do it to someone else, and claim the moral high ground.



Do you think HoH was just going to let Simians get away with their acres in a conflict with Sanc? HoH was most definitely going to respond. It's safe to say it was a double hostile.


To say that Simians and Sanc are currently hostile is not entirely accurate either. Tag something else. Sanctuary waiting on Simians. Sanc Vulturing Simians. Something else because as it stands currently, it's most definitely not Sanc vs Simians.

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I admit the dishourable play comment was funny and probably uncalled for. But you don't go taking that vendetta and bringing it into this, that's just immature and silly.

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Originally Posted by Palem

Lame, wrong, call it what you want. I still don't see how Sanc notices us, we op them, and we're the bad guys. But Simians notices the three, Sanc explicitly waits for Simians to launch 7 hits into HoH, then starts bank hits, sends a dragon and somehow they think they're a bunch of saints.

And no. Sanc is fake tagged. They aren't fighting Simians. They're perfectly open for hits for anyone that would want to.

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Intentionally misrepresenting what happened is very lame Palem. I had a higher opinion of you. If you edit your post to reflect what actually happened I will once again have a higher opinion of you. Opinions deal with subjective things. Facts deal with objective things. You know the difference, and thus it is disappointing to see.

I personally feel like people who can edit the posts of others are representatives of the game and should, therefore, try to avoid abusing facts. As DHaran and Bishop pointed out, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In mine, moderators shouldn't intentionally post lies on the forums. See my next post for a clarification concerning opinions :)

FYI, it's not "improper" for moderators to have opinions about ingame stuff (even if you don't like them), so don't even try to turn the convo that direction.

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Originally Posted by Drixx

It's improper for a forum moderator to intentionally misrepresent the actions of players and kds in the game. Like it or not, your green title makes you accountable to a higher standard. If you want to make propaganda posts and outright lies, then step down as moderator so it doesn't look like the people running the game are intentionally liars in order to serve their own bias.

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This is not correct. Palm is fully entitled to his opinion.

edit: bah.

Pwnt!

If simians still hold the button on sanc then cant they op them at will after? If that is the case then why cant sanc keep its name as is? When crying about a kingdom tag is what you argument devolves to there really is not much else to say I guess.

The next part after this farm war is over is the crying that will be done when simians bank goes poof.

*passes out logic to the masses*

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Originally Posted by Drixx

Intentionally misrepresenting what happened is very lame Palem. I had a higher opinion of you. If you edit your post to reflect what actually happened I will once again have a higher opinion of you. It's improper for a forum moderator to intentionally misrepresent the actions of players and kds in the game. Like it or not, your green title makes you accountable to a higher standard. If you want to make propaganda posts and outright lies, then step down as moderator so it doesn't look like the people running the game are intentionally liars in order to serve their own bias.

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You so nub, you should learn what a moderator is before spouting that nonsense.

Opinions deal with things which are subjective. Facts are objective. It is an objective fact that Sanctuary sent the dragon and hit Simians before Simians hit HoH, and yet in the post I quoted, Palem claims something else happened. Ergo, he objectively posted a falsehood. You cannot have an "opinion" about an objective fact. Something either happened in one order or the other order. It's like saying that in my opinion the sky is brown.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

This is not correct. Palm is fully entitled to his opinion.

edit: bah.

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Maybe that's why its so soft and smooth?

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Originally Posted by I_am_Spartacus

To sum up this thread.

Abs bias say: Actions were justified cause we're almighty Absalom.
Neutral folk say: Simians deserved it/earned it/were naive and stupid not to expect anything else.
Anti-abs bias/simian lovers say: Ehmahgerddd the furst durbble hotile evurr!

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I'm neutral and I don't say any of that. I think it's good that there is finally some kind of action in the top regardless of how it had to happen.

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Originally Posted by DHaran

Of course not, but it does make 3 kingdoms available to hostile you at the same time. It was stupid to do it, and what's happening now is a direct result of their own actions. If the goal was to just make all 3 train, then stagger the notices, with your preferred target being first.

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You might think it's stupid, but long term it could be a brilliant move on Simians part.

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Originally Posted by Drixx

Opinions deal with things which are subjective. Facts are objective. It is an objective fact that Sanctuary sent the dragon and hit Simians before Simians hit HoH, and yet in the post I quoted, Palem claims something else happened. Ergo, he objectively posted a falsehood. You cannot have an "opinion" about an objective fact. Something either happened in one order or the other order. It's like saying that in my opinion the sky is brown.

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ofc you can just ask jdorje.

I think Anri's decision was worth the risk, sometime you have to roll the dice. At least he went for #1 then being happy with a 2 or 3 spot. We just wanted the war to redeem ourslelves from last age. Last age was terrible, BiO and Simians had thier way with us , for me the BiO beating was the worst I have ever had taken part of on the loosing end.

We rebuilt and picked a simple race that might cover "questionable" activity since we didn't know how these new guys would pan out. I think we have a solid crew and we really tested ourselves vs BiO, who lots of guys don't like right now but you have to respect thier activity and ferociousness.

We aren't getting ahead of ourselves and counting any egss before they hatch, were more concerned with gaining back some respect at this point then a Crown. I hope by wars end we will have proven ourselves as a formidable foe to the entire server.

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Originally Posted by Drixx

It's like saying that in my opinion the sky is brown.

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I have a disease in which colors are not properly displayed through my eyes. To me, a "clear blue sky" appears to be a light brown. It's not fun to get corrected that the sky is actually blue when in my view it clearly is not.

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Originally Posted by flutterby

You might think it's stupid, but long term it could be a brilliant move on Simians part.

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There is nothing about this move that was brilliant, because a better risk controlled version of this move would have gotten the same results without getting themselves double hostiled, making the move that was actually made just dumb in comparison.

Last week Sanctuary was tagged Happy Birthday Zara and azrael for 4 days. I know that **** was fake. Looking good Hall of Hero's

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Originally Posted by DHaran

There is nothing about this move that was brilliant, because a better risk controlled version of this move would have gotten the same results without getting themselves double hostiled, making the move that was actually made just dumb in comparison.

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It depends on how you look at the situation. Might not be brilliant for their kingdom or their goals, but it could be good for the game and that's the perspective that I take.

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Originally Posted by Deana

Last week Sanctuary was tagged Happy Birthday Zara and azrael for 4 days. I know that **** was fake. Looking good Hall of Hero's

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lol come around more often Deana

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Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam

Elit: You bring the same old stuff that makes you look bad into every thread no matter what the topic is. I guess you are really troubled by your failings and hope that if you post lies enough that some people might start to believe them but instead you just end up exposing yourself as being irrational. Not only do you make yourself look bad, but you keep dragging BIO through the mud when they've hoped to distance themselves from this.

Both BIO and Dreams full waved Rage from their FW. Trying to claim that this is not a double only makes you look like a fool. The papers of both kingdoms full waving Rage are available. Again, there are numerous differences in that situation compared to the current one, however if you want to compare the situations, let's compare.


In that situation, Dreams noticed Rage and called out Rage for a fight in the public forums by posting a thread called "Dreams vs Rage."
See exhibit A: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Dreams-vs-Rage

In this situation, Anri noticed Sanc, Rage, and HOH and seems to have called them all out for a fight including calling Sanc chickens for looking like they might not fight.
See this thread.

In the previous situation, Rage sent Dreams a dragon and hit them 3x and mass robbed them after the notice (given by Elit) expired. Dreams retaliated Rage 3x. No one else hit Dreams and no one had hit Rage before Rage did this.

In the current situation, Sanc sent Simians a dragon and hit them and told them a full wave was incoming. No one else had hit Simians or otherwise initiated anything against simians at this time.

In the previous situation, Elit decided he didn't want to fight Rage after publicly calling them out for a fight and noticing them since by fight time, Rage looked too strong. Therefore, when Rage sent a dragon at him and hit them and started mass opping them, he therefore arranged with another kingdom to make some hits on Rage and then FW that kingdom and both full wave Rage once they were protected from being declared if they gave up the button.

In the current situation, Anri decided he didn't want to fight Sanc after publicly calling them out for a fight and noticing them since by fight time, Sanc looked too strong. Therefore, when Sanc sent a dragon at him, hit him, started opping him, and informed him of an incoming full wave, Anri then tried to quickly wave another kingdom to get out of the fight with Sanc.


So Dreams and Simians share some commonalities in that they both noticed and publicly called out a kingdom, then when the kingdom they called out started fighting them and looked too strong, they quickly tried to get out of the fight. Elit brought in another kingdom to help him in his fight vs Rage while Simians initiated a fight with another kingdom out of their developing fight with Sanc to try and get out of it. Elit played dirty by bringing in a 2v1 to try and escape the fight he called out while Simians put themselves at risk and got themselves 2v1'd trying to escape the fight they called out.

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I don't like this colors. Giving notice is legit part from game and its not crime. Using forum is for make all more fun. Its true Dreams decide later to not war Rage and its was not because you are so strong. Sure rage had all possible advantages for this if we loss war there wont be any shame and problem to me, from other side if we win we can get shot for n1. Its why we called rage for war, but at this time part from kd members gone for RL meet and it prolong for so many days. I don't believe in wars if all kd members is not around and care for it. If we miss around 7 people its mean they don't care for n1 and there no reason for me to bother with all problems to war vs kd with big advantage for noting. For this i told you clear we wont war.

From other side you had your Proteus vs Baka forum/irc fight. Baka was so mad on him (for good reason) and told clear he will hit rage if you start relation. So start war with rage had big risk for end it with bio hitting rage oow. Can you tell me what solution will be there? Telling its was arranged from us and get rest abs gb us? Sorry but if i'm going to war for n1 i want clear 1vs1 fight. Its was my second reason to decide for stay away from war with rage.

Sure you used all your stelt for rob us and you wanted to regain it. For this you gave us 24h to decide for war rage. We already had arranged FWr if you push us. So far baka got bored from all this not action and decide to wave rage with 7 hits. This was full legit 1vs1 wave. Because you didn't had open relation with Dreams. From other side Sanctuary did wave on Simians after they open relation with HoH. Its clear different situation and double hostile from Sanctuary. Rage decide to "run" from BIO how Simians decide to "run" from Sanctuary. BIO decide to keep hit rage how sanc decide to wave simians. Yes you can say they did it from Fwr but its YOUR FAIL. Its was clear from begin we will Fwr and you know it very well. Do you think waving simians right before real war is more honorable? Simians dont have ability to retal Sanctuary from his real war vs HoH and rage had full ability to retal BIO.

I still cant understand what wrong did Dreams in all this story. You hit us x3 we hit you x3. You full wave us we full wave you from Fwr. You was perfect aware we will FWr and BEFORE WE START RETAL i asked you : can we retal and you approve it too.
I fail to see how BIO was bring from me when baka announced clear he hate Proteus and rage. Do you think he need to be convinced to hit rage? How you can say i was dirty when all what did my kd is to retal. You can call dirty sanctuary for make retal war with us for 14 days and never push button and refuse same time to make CF. STOP your stupid abs propaganda. I got from it enough past ages. Don't care what you or some other people think for it. ABS broke so many time naps with my kds and did GBs against them. My kds never broke nap or GB ABS in return.

So if you want to call some one dirty go to looking-glass and repeat 100 times YOU ARE VERY DIRTY !

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Elit you sound really bitter. Go remake Dreams and double hosile some more kingdoms.

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I wont remake Dreams but promise to make all what you accuse me. So be careful what you/asf talk.
You guys never lie so i must make it become true.

He edited and he still couldn't spell my name right :'(

@Drixx
Intentionally misrepresenting things is lame, but I was genuinely under the impression that that was the order of events. I corrected myself later, but if it makes you feel better, I'll even remove the portion that's incorrect. It doesn't really matter though because even in the correct order it's still hauntingly similar to what jdorje slandered my kd as 'dishonorable' for.

@tak3shi
I don't really use the forums as my own personal whining tool. It's fairly well known that there's some bad blood between jdorje and I and I'm happy to leave it at that. The point I'm getting at is that when this is done to Abs, they don't hesitate to cry fowl and call in the alliance. Yet, when they do it it Simians and Simians cries fowl, they're just a bunch of stupid nubs who are getting what they deserve.

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Originally Posted by Palem

He edited and he still couldn't spell my name right :'(

@Drixx
Intentionally misrepresenting things is lame, but I was genuinely under the impression that that was the order of events. I corrected myself later, but if it makes you feel better, I'll even remove the portion that's incorrect. It doesn't really matter though because even in the correct order it's still hauntingly similar to what jdorje slandered my kd as 'dishonorable' for.

@tak3shi
I don't really use the forums as my own personal whining tool. It's fairly well known that there's some bad blood between jdorje and I and I'm happy to leave it at that. The point I'm getting at is that when this is done to Abs, they don't hesitate to cry fowl and call in the alliance. Yet, when they do it it Simians and Simians cries fowl, they're just a bunch of stupid nubs who are getting what they deserve.

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My bad Palem. I didn't see your correction.

I just have a few questions. Yes I'm in HoH so blah blah bias..

If Simian's didnt hit us and replied to Sanct's hits with a wave as an intent to war, HoH would never have hit back. If you think we are stupid enough to pump in preparation for Simian's wave, then eat a free wave you really don't know how to play this game very well. At the time of Sanctuary hitting simians bank and declaring intentions and sending a dragon did we hit them? Once we did wave Simians did Sanct keep attacking? Last question, if your target kd was in fort and you intended to war them, would you full wave them in fortified and give them the button so they can rape you once they press it?

In a ghetto example, forgetting the big names involved:

KD 2 notices KD 1 and 3 that they will wave.
KD 1 gets a few hits on KD 2 waiting for them to go out of fort until they full wave.
KD 2 decides to wave KD 3 despite intentions, a dragon, a bank hit and a promise to wave once fort is up from KD 1.
KD 1 waves KD 2.
KD 3 says, hell we aren't giving them a free wave and builds hostilities with a few hits then presses button.

If this was an every day occurrence between 3 random kingdoms KD 2 would just be like, oh well that didn't turn out very well, stupid move on our part... and then move on. The rest of the uto world would continue to rotate in a clockwise direction, the toilets would still flush differently in Australia and Michael Jackson would still be dead.

Man, I finally read all of this. I took the weekend off for a wedding so a lot to read.

Seems to me Sanctuary and Rage started a dragon, this showed a clear intent to war.

Simians cleared up Rage so that only 1 KD would be warring them. They should have been ready to war sanctuary.

When CF terms ended Sanctuary made hits on Simians, it seems simians at this point failed to diplo a CF with sanctuary and should have started retaliating or continued training to get ready for the conflict.

Instead simians waved another KD. At this point Sanctuary has already invested in a dragon, and made some hits on you. Personally if I was dorje depending on how much free land I had taken I might have been willing to leave simians alone until after their war with HoH in exchange for 1 free wave. But really imo they could have kept hitting without any real issue simians choose to run from them without arranging a cf. When there is only 2-3 targets a dragon and a few hits should be enough to count as a hostile especially if you tell them you will give the button when they leave fortified.

Anri you have failed in my mind. Few will ever look back at this as anything but you miss judging a situation...

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Originally Posted by Palem

It's fairly well known that there's some bad blood between jdorje and I and I'm happy to leave it at that. The point I'm getting at is that when this is done to Abs, they don't hesitate to cry fowl and call in the alliance. Yet, when they do it it Simians and Simians cries fowl, they're just a bunch of stupid nubs who are getting what they deserve.

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Come on Palem, that's a pretty big exaggeration isn't it? I had a discussion with you about the situation, and I give you permission to post it here for viewing if you like, but it was a pretty reasonable talk wasn't it? Did "the alliance" touch you after you continued opping sanc into their hostile? As far as I know, there was no alliance involvement and you and I just had a two-way discussion about why you felt you needed to op them into the hostile.

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

Actually its what did rage age 51 and blamed after it rest 2 kds for his choice. Sure simians didn't act so proper, because they should know Its not first time when ABS kd in same situation act same and keep hit his target ever if he waved another kd. Its was hard situation for Simians.
Gave notice all same time was very bad move. Yes most possible there will be notice from sanctuary right after simians notice hoh, but you will have legit reason to tell them your "hostile" with hoh are first and they need to hold it for finish.

In short Sanctuary is double more lame for get advantage on newbie for being so n00b.

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There's no such logic, since when do newbies deserve any more chance to crown? Which sport in the world has that nonsensical rule? You already saw my earlier explanation. If Simians didn't want this **** then they shouldn't have noticed sanctuary, simple. U poke the bear now u get mauled and cry wtf is this rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Palem

No, when jdorje wants to call my play "dishonorable" and then does this, I'm compelled to say something.



I'm not solely blaming anyone of anything. This isn't the first time Simians have goofed this age with not considering consequences. They assume things will go as they planned and when they don't they have a hard time getting the train back on the tracks.

What I am doing is calling out jdorje for calling my kd dirty when they're pulling pretty much the EXACT same thing that we did to them and within mere hours, before their own leadership bothered to try and talk with me I've got abs leaders breathing down my neck. No, you can't call another kd dishonorable for doing something and then later come back, do it to someone else, and claim the moral high ground.



Do you think HoH was just going to let Simians get away with their acres in a conflict with Sanc? HoH was most definitely going to respond. It's safe to say it was a double hostile.


To say that Simians and Sanc are currently hostile is not entirely accurate either. Tag something else. Sanctuary waiting on Simians. Sanc Vulturing Simians. Something else because as it stands currently, it's most definitely not Sanc vs Simians.

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There has always been scenarios where kd's eat the wave, due to diplo or not being ready. You can never assume things.

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Originally Posted by Palem

He edited and he still couldn't spell my name right :'(

@Drixx
Intentionally misrepresenting things is lame, but I was genuinely under the impression that that was the order of events. I corrected myself later, but if it makes you feel better, I'll even remove the portion that's incorrect. It doesn't really matter though because even in the correct order it's still hauntingly similar to what jdorje slandered my kd as 'dishonorable' for.

@tak3shi
I don't really use the forums as my own personal whining tool. It's fairly well known that there's some bad blood between jdorje and I and I'm happy to leave it at that. The point I'm getting at is that when this is done to Abs, they don't hesitate to cry fowl and call in the alliance. Yet, when they do it it Simians and Simians cries fowl, they're just a bunch of stupid nubs who are getting what they deserve.

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Sorry I really don't get this, can you show me threads where abs have cried foul recently? I can pull a bunch of stupid threads by Anri and maybe some by Proteus but do you have any threads of abs crying so I can review it. Let's just give this an objective view, statement followed by evidence.

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Originally Posted by tak3shi

There has always been scenarios where kd's eat the wave, rage is one. You can never assume things.

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It was a double hostile that only ghettos normally get themselves in. Sometimes low level KD's get into a conflict and dont CF. Why simians thought they should get into a conflict then hit a different KD while still involved in that conflict is beyond me but yea... its just baffling. I think either sanctuary or hoh should have offered anri an immediate CF in return for a free wave after the war but I am unsure if anri would have even accepted...

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

I wont remake Dreams but promise to make all what you accuse me. So be careful what you/asf talk.
You guys never lie so i must make it become true.

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lol elit weren't you gonna stop derailing trains... I mean threads.

What if I accused you of being a pedo rapist would you go out and prove my "lies" right too? U take things too seriously you need some valium and a lot of chill pill.

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Originally Posted by goodz

It was a double hostile that only ghettos normally get themselves in. Sometimes low level KD's get into a conflict and dont CF. Why simians thought they should get into a conflict then hit a different KD while still involved in that conflict is beyond me but yea... its just baffling. I think either sanctuary or hoh should have offered anri an immediate CF in return for a free wave after the war but I am unsure if anri would have even accepted...

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The only logical explanation was that they would could cry double hostile when they had no chance of winning anything. I've looked at their builds and setup and I don't think they would have been able to withstand any of the top 3 kd's. Their survey in itself is hilarious.

Hey, I had a nice, mostly pleasant chat (given the circumstances) with you and even Drixx previously on the matter. I have no problem with Rage. But you did make it very clear to me that what we were doing would typically cause the alliance to respond, even after I said a few times that getting abs involved would be a bad move. But you never DID say that abs wasn't going to step in on account of Sanc because you said you would get back to me and never did :(. On top of that, Sanc leadership got a hold of me the next day and was quickly resolved so there may have just not been enough time for Rage get switched around and start razing, or whatever they would have tried to do.

So yes, rage didn't get involved but for all I know that could be attributed to many other things aside from deciding that you shouldn't. That said, I do appreciate Rage's non-involvement :)

The fact does certainly remain though. We did something similar to Sanc and they immediately cried to their allies about it.

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Originally Posted by tak3shi

There's no such logic, since when do newbies deserve any more chance to crown? Which sport in the world has that nonsensical rule? You already saw my earlier explanation. If Simians didn't want this **** then they shouldn't have noticed sanctuary, simple. U poke the bear now u get mauled and cry wtf is this rubbish.

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You miss my logic. Its not about gave mercy to Simians because they are newbie. Sanctuary is good enough to war/beat simians/most kds in fair fight 1vs1. I I'm sure HoH wanted fair 1vs1 war too.
In every sport win matter only if you get it fair. Simians idea was in general correct and good but they didn't make it proper. Its because they are for first time in top land chart position. For this blame them so hard is not objective. Sure Sanctuary have his good reason to insist Simians to war with them, but when you see its wont happen most honorable is to back off and let Simians to have his fair 1vs1 war with hoh. Sanc simple used Simians mistake to make his Double Hostile semy-legit. Nor Sanc/hoh/simians win from it in long term.

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Originally Posted by tak3shi

The only logical explanation was that they would could cry double hostile when they had no chance of winning anything. I've looked at their builds and setup and I don't think they would have been able to withstand any of the top 3 kd's. Their survey in itself is hilarious.

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if that is the case then Anri did a huge mistake by overestimating his kingdom and/or underestimating their opponents. it makes sense then that when he saw sanctuary's setup and realised he'd be owned, his best move was to put himself in a position from where he could either avoid sanc or cry double hostile later and thus justify his failure. tho i doubt he can blame sanctuary for the farmage HoH is giving him now.

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

You miss my logic. Its not about gave mercy to Simians because they are newbie. Sanctuary is good enough to war/beat simians/most kds in fair fight 1vs1. I I'm sure HoH wanted fair 1vs1 war too.
In every sport win matter only if you get it fair. Simians idea was in general correct and good but they didn't make it proper. Its because they are for first time in top land chart position. For this blame them so hard is not objective. Sure Sanctuary have his good reason to insist Simians to war with them, but when you see its wont happen most honorable is to back off and let Simians to have his fair 1vs1 war with hoh. Sanc simple used Simians mistake to make his Double Hostile semy-legit. Nor Sanc/hoh/simians win from it in long term.

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Wrong look at goodz explanation, it's as neutral as it can get.

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Originally Posted by tak3shi

Wrong look at goodz explanation, it's as neutral as it can get.

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Sure his post remind me age 51 and rage :)

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Originally Posted by goodz

It was a double hostile that only ghettos normally get themselves in. Sometimes low level KD's get into a conflict and dont CF.

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I agree you need to CF one kd before move to other conflict. Its basic knowledge. From other side its was used many times from ghetto to run from one kd with make hostile/war with another. And first kd still keep feed for free. Look like this age TOP was turned to real regular ghetto play.

What we do in this game w/o semantics to argue about^^

Ppl can argue about definition of hostile and whatnot all they want but ultimatelly only definition that was important in this particular case was jdorje's ... and he went with common sense rather than technicality. Granted not Abs practice ... but common sense none the less.

You dont notice a KD, eat a dragon and bank hit, and get informed they dont intend to move on and than try to dodge the fight by waving 3rd KD and hiding behind that ... it was real naive to expect that would work.

If Simians went ape sorta speak on one of the KD's they noticed straight up before Sanc initiated them I could see some moral grounds for them to claim beeing doubled up, but like this ... meh ...

As far as noticing 3 kd's goes I really see nothing wrong with that, I dont understand why are ppl goin emo over it. Renegotiate new CF or train up ... easy as that

Simian put themselves in a double hostile. Take an objective view and put yourself in the shoes of every kingdom involved. What would you have done differently? All 4 are trying to win the age and are against each other with that goal in mind.

I would have done what both sanc and HOH did, I would have taken the cf rage had taken as well since they were probably third in line (lot of time wasted waiting). The misplay was the assumption that you could notice 3 kingdoms and then direct the flow of the game yourself (playing in a predetermined bubble).

If the problem is abs are lame blah blah blah and anti abs are lame blah blah blah news flash everyone knows this already. Adding up all ages and quantifying lameness they are probably pretty equal. Abs just gets away with it because they are the better meta gamers.

Ignore me though, if everyone realizes this the forum would be a lot less amusing.

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

You miss my logic. Its not about gave mercy to Simians because they are newbie. Sanctuary is good enough to war/beat simians/most kds in fair fight 1vs1. I I'm sure HoH wanted fair 1vs1 war too.
In every sport win matter only if you get it fair. Simians idea was in general correct and good but they didn't make it proper. Its because they are for first time in top land chart position. For this blame them so hard is not objective. Sure Sanctuary have his good reason to insist Simians to war with them, but when you see its wont happen most honorable is to back off and let Simians to have his fair 1vs1 war with hoh. Sanc simple used Simians mistake to make his Double Hostile semy-legit. Nor Sanc/hoh/simians win from it in long term.

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Anri used some strange logic that since Sanctuary only made 5-6 hits including hits on their bank that it wasn't a hostile because meter wasn't at 15.

This makes sense to some extent but when your in top 5 and there is no other target for the KD to move on to and they have the dragon going, and have told you they will give you button if you go to normal you are pretty well stuck dealing with that situation before you move on.

Imagine this in reverse. Rage/Sanctuary/Mercy/HOH each make 7 hits into simians. None of them are hostile with simians but simians just received 28 hits... This would be a multi-hostile scenario without anyone being hostile. It takes some common sense and is hard to write rules for any scenario but when your allies/friends clearly coordinate to weaken an opponent that is generally frowned upon. When you !@#$% yourself and then complain... Not much sympathy.

Diplo is situational. It is hard to please everyone.

I think if abs wants better game play there best bet it to drop to 2 kingdoms. Or if they feel they need the kingdoms they could drop HoH and invite a couple warring KD's who could target other charts but would be able to back them up if a large group of floggers come after them... 4 KD's gunning for charts with NAP's is more then half the KD's who went for land/nw this age.

You got insolence/old school/bio/psych ward/simians/sanctuary/rage/mercy/hoh/*the faery circle who appear to be trying to grow. Or were at the start at least.

Insolence/psych ward/mercy/old school/TFC simply were too weak this age to compete at all. Hopefully they can have a stronger age after the summer.

This leaves bio/simians/sanctuary/rage/hoh competing for 1 spot :p Bio gave up very quickly when they hit adversity. Then your stuck with a 3v1 in charts. Essentially at this point just the amount of free time abs while have dicing means they are guaranteed a win. Simians messed up but they didn't have a realistic shot at chart regardless of what they did. Lots of KD's with activity that is good enough to really compete in the top 10 choose not to grow and this causes abs to control too much of the top to get fair competition :) Or heck have a couple kingdoms go for the honor crown each age, its annoying because with raze removed the mechanics are terrible... but hey I am sure Sanctuary could have some fun warring at 40k acres and intentionally staying small :D Last time I remember a top KD going for honor was years ago now! Wasn't uncommon back in the day to have 3-4 legitimately good kingdoms go for honor each age. KD's like pleasure palace/sleepy/playboys/heretics/bio/rage/sanctuary/brute force/fratzia and probably other KD's who I don't remember back then... but they used to take some ages to compete for honor. I would like to see you try again, there is some very strong KD's down there :)

overall its very true comment goodz. But still feel bad for Simians. Sure they messed it.

Yes elit, I like the simians crew well enough, and hopefully they come back motivated to try to whore again next age rather then give up and go back to the warring slums. Need some non abs KD's whoring. If bio simians dont whore next age it will literally only be abs unless insolence makes a comeback :P