You play your way and we play ours? You are not in CR and wouldn't ever be so you don't have to worry about how we play. I enjoy relaxing and not setting so many alarms.Quote:
Originally Posted by portofelia
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You play your way and we play ours? You are not in CR and wouldn't ever be so you don't have to worry about how we play. I enjoy relaxing and not setting so many alarms.Quote:
Originally Posted by portofelia
whoring is fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Whatever we do, people will disagree with our way. We let pandas and div war, they ***** we never warred before this conflict. Had we forced wars, they would have found something else to ***** out. etc
I feel like you and many others have the wrong idea of how we got so big. CF deals come because people don't want us to wave / war them. They don't want this to happen because we chose the set up that whored the fastest and got scary enough to make people not want to war us.Quote:
Meep, again (though its a great success for CR to have scooped you up :P), I would rather have seen CR war to be no.1 then sit most age just pumping and taking acres for CF deals, hell even if you waved for it rather then "deal" before strikes are even made, the fact that KDs run isnt CRs fault, but to deal and get easy acres without even lifting the sword is a bit meh.
There is a tally we have in our channel of how many times we've prepped to war a kd, only to have that kd message us in the 13th hour asking for a cf.
ANYWHO DEETZ ON THE CONFLICT
Start with some informal ****:
The health of our leaders is rapidly degrading
Mink got super duper sick
Topsy is restricted from electronics for sexytimes
Zauper needed to get his eyes checked - also is lacking super duper sleep
Mango working 16-20hr days to bring in that cash
Jwu almost had his foot amputated but now stuck crying and taking hard drugs to numb his feelings of depression
Vir isn't a leader but he's ugly so I had to put it here
Rens isn't a leader but is afk all day
Oh Goldy is still salty about the troll - so I blame the loss on munk - :goldyrage:
Okay real stats:
Dragon
Unchanged from last update
Ruby on Panda, saph pointed at CR
Nothing on CR, saph pointed at Panda
Hits
With CR finally giving button, they are now out gaining Pandas who is trying to keep the meter/button
CR started with cow hits
Pandas responded with avians hitting t/ms
After a few uniques CR decided to wave and attack avians with armies home
Pandas didn't push button, continued to hit t/ms
CR / Panda cores mainly hitting each other while the higher offenses in Pandas continue to bash on the fae/halfers in CR
Oh, there was a bit of army camping to try and hit core provs army home - I think both sides see how strong it is (especially the casualties on avians even with 20+ hosp)
own_tm:23108 (50) | own_raze:3645 (7) | enemy_tm:19974 (40) | enemy_cf_withdrawn:0 (1) | enemy_cf_proposal:0 (1) | enemy_cf_broken:0 (1) | 3134 total
** Kingdom news report **
For the time from July 9 of YR8 till February 22 of YR9 - 62 hours
[ http://home-world.org/utopia/formatter/ - Seraphim online formatter ]
** Summary **
Total attacks made: 57 (23,108 acres)
-- Traditional march: 50 (23,108 acres)
-- Raze: 7 (3,645 acres)
-- Uniques: 15
Total attacks suffered: 40 (19,974 acres)
-- Traditional march: 40 (19,974 acres)
-- Uniques: 36
** The kingdom of cr **
Total land exchanged: +3,134 (57/40)
+16,995 An unknown province (36/0)
+3,167 Abnormal Summit (6/0)
+2,297 Darla (5/0)
+1,249 Kim Jong Il (3/0)
+478 Raucous Rainbow (1/0)
-320 tweetheart (3/4)
-354 OPEC (0/1)
-421 Blue Falcon (2/4)
-441 Trollbunden (0/1)
-473 HowMayIAssistYou (0/1)
-706 Kylo Ren (1/3)
-726 Boo (0/1)
-805 Break the silence (0/2)
-915 Chemistry (0/2)
-942 Nirvash (0/2)
-1,233 Your Ken can kiss my Barbie (0/2)
-1,434 Superman (0/3)
-1,924 Scary Scary (0/3)
-3,329 Selina Kyle (0/6)
-3,384 Delphinapterus leucas (0/5)
** The kingdom of panda **
Total land exchanged: -3,134 (40/57)
+2,779 It Hurts When I PVP (4/0)
+1,323 Religitard (2/0)
+795 We Do NOT Forget (2/0)
+556 Gryffud Hillside (2/0)
+303 Late Bloomer (2/3)
+77 White Boy (3/3)
+41 Fuzakeru na (2/2)
+12 Oooolala (2/2)
-108 Terminator (2/3)
-150 Skittles (3/4)
-396 Hola (4/6)
-471 Deepness in the Sky (3/3)
-567 Tamriel (4/7)
-792 Punchbag (3/5)
-872 druglord (2/3)
-2,192 no sleep for you (0/5)
-2,611 candy canes and planes (0/5)
-4,506 Haters gonna HATE (0/6)
Total: -6,577 acres / -4,918,845 nw CR
Total: -13,034 acres / -4,168,274 nw Panda
Not sure what else you guys wanna see. I think when I wake up from my next drug-induced daze I can get some more info out. I rather do that then see the wah CR wah stuff
Yeah I'm basically the only leader left who isn't sick or disgusting (foot fungus). It's tough having to manage the entire clown fiesta on my own. I'm gonna get some time off on the weekend as a trade-off.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwuzi
So tired :(
Mil gap appears to be growing. IIRC, it started around 300k, fell to ~200k when we killed the dragon, and is now about 350k.
Peon gap has shrunk since we started hitting with core -- from about 600k in their favor to 550k now. We still have a good chunk more gc than they do, but the coffers are starting to run dry. Their peons appear to be mostly constant now that we're trading hits, while we're gaining some popspace from the trading to start gaining peons.
WTF guys, me and Aranfein are trying to get some drama and arguing up in this thread.
Stop distracting from that with hostile updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
I understand all of that, but it only takes 1 hit and then your overpopped right? It seems easy to just wave a kd on -ppa and lock all their troops home, thus winning the conflict. How do you get around this issue? Not to mention the entire lack of economy, I'm guessing you stack a bunch of gcs beforehand, but what happens when that gets stolen or FG by the otherside and you can't pay wages? Seems extremely risky, and not worth the extra few mpa.
the less peons you have the less vulnerable you are to overpop. Peons you cant get rid of short of having a team mate fb you. thieves you can release to solds n aid out, military you can send to dragon or release and aid. Any of these+ wiz can be released to peon and kept if you ended up feeling like you needed the extra econ ...almost never happens though, why? bc in war ppl always realize raw military is what they need, not peons. Choosing to not train deeper and keep peons is basically the same as releasing for peons for pumping kds that have hundreds of millions stocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiliest
paying wages and funding dragon? overrated! :P
Wiliest, the problem is you are only looking at it as if only the ppa is different, while the mpa is the same.
Let's say 1 kd has decent ppa of 4. Another kd has pumped to the gills and is -3. if the -3 prov gets hit once or twice do they overpop? absolutely(atleast if they aren't in fort!). However, let's think about the actual difference in the provs here. Let's say we have 2 humans.
4 ppa one:
Human/Merchant @ 1k a. 75% draft, 4.1ppa, 0ospa, 7dspa, 11epa (99.3opa/83.1dpa) p(59.57 opa/56.15) 3tpa (6.04), 3wpa (6.04)
Sci: 1050 bpa (100|100|200|50|200|200|200) / effect (14|10|9.2|56.6|7.4|84.9|84.9)
Build: 68.5% BE farms 8%, tg 18%, rax 10%, fort 10%, gs 15%, hosps 20%, guilds 7%, towers 3%, wts 15%, dungs 2%
Econ: Inc: 14k gc Wages: -22k gc Sci: -0k gc ToG:8k gc Runes:+1k runes Food: -1,021 bushels
-3 ppa one:
Human/Merchant @ 1k a. 100% draft, -2.9ppa, 0ospa, 10dspa, 15epa (132.3opa/113.3dpa) p(79.36 opa/77.34) 3tpa (6.04), 3wpa (6.04)
Sci: 1050 bpa (100|100|200|50|200|200|200) / effect (14|10|9.2|56.6|7.4|84.9|84.9)
Build: 55% BE farms 8%, tg 18%, rax 10%, fort 10%, gs 15%, hosps 20%, guilds 7%, towers 3%, wts 15%, dungs 2%
Econ: Inc: 0k gc Wages: -31k gc Sci: -0k gc ToG:0k gc Runes:+0k runes Food: -2,207 bushels
Now in these 2 cases we're looking at like 99k offense and 83k home defense on first one and 132k offense on second one and 113k defense all home. In this instance the first prov can't even break the second all home. And even when the second one does hit in, he's still leaving enough defense that he can only be single tapped back, while most likely being able to double once they are out. You are now in a situation where you can kill elitse al home and then be outtrading by 50% hits. Now, do you overpop them if you focus a lot on a few provs? sure. Does the overpop from the 4+ hits that went into high gbp equal the same amount of lost troops/econ space as what you lost from them hitting? not even close. This should al make sense, as prov 1 has like 75% of the elites/dspecs as prov 2.
Now what's more, in the first prov you are still negative income on 200 wages. In effect, neither side is "growing" their economy, so what matters then is the stock and how well the stock is staying alive. if they manage to survive a longtime or force hits somewhere that gives them room the second can use their peon base to grow peons in war or fort, but most likely it just snowballs out of control. Wars in the top snowball super hard due to both sides being pumped no matter what(even 4 ppa would be considered decently deep for most of the game), the drop being much further, and the chains being tighter.
The good thing is you can eyeball this stuff and get pretty close.
Like, I was presented with ratios and I don't know how to calculate them. So I googled it and I saw more than 3 paragraphs. So then I did an Indiana Jones and guesstimated. Presto!
Thank you topsy for the thing there. I can't absorb numbers but I can absorb goals. If you're like me and stink at math don't let it scare you.
Thanks for the update Mr.Freesbee ;)
Was it Panda's wave or CR's the last one?
I assume Panda is/has losing/lost their top? while CR has low T/Ms? Seeing Panda has a lot quicker core(Humans vs Avians), wouldnt it be favourable for them to outgain on core for 48hrs and just WD/Re-engage? (like Pyro on FS?).
era - Always nice seeing you playing, where Meep was a scoop for CR, you are none other then a living legend they brought back, cant beat that, though i recommend brushing the dust off :p
Meep Giraffes vs Pandas is hardly fair, Pandas will beat you with bamboo and ride you across the Savanah, dont see Giraffes having feet to hold tools, though they have grinding teeth, perhaps thats enough?
Waves are a bit mixed. They're mid wave right now (armies starting to return). Some of the stuff we've done to prevent the risk of declare-double wave makes it a bit hard to know exactly who's wave it is -- our armies are pretty staggered and folks have split armies, so I think we just made 3 hits into their avians exactly when their troops returned, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
This is pretty accurate.Quote:
I assume Panda is/has losing/lost their top? while CR has low T/Ms?
Here's their 3 biggest at cfdrop:
candy canes and planes -2,015 -453k | no sleep for you -2,182 -467k | Haters gonna HATE -4,496 -762k
Our 5 are +1667, 2373, 379, 10, and 415a. And down 223k, 378k, 293k, 314k, and 370k nw. That's by size order.
One of our dwarves just razed their two cows that started at 11.7k acres in the same unique -- and they've been turtled the entire time, so eating hits into troops home.
In the flipside, our t/m:
Down between 1223 and 3319a, and 163k nw and 580k nw.
This is certainly an option. However, there are probably some drawbacks for them:Quote:
Seeing Panda has a lot quicker core(Humans vs Avians), wouldnt it be favourable for them to outgain on core for 48hrs and just WD/Re-engage? (like Pyro on FS?).
1) We're a merchant kd vs a non-merchant kd. B2B wars generally favor the merchant kd. A mintime WD is good for ~18k acres, or 720 per prov. Our chained provs would be in significantly better shape as a result.
2) Human means elite credits, not spec credits -- also big for having military in a b2b
3) It seems unlikely they could gain enough core acres to create viable threats in a b2b to merchant cows that grow from where we started in this fight -- and still have good wpa defense/etc.
4) It currently is looking like our core might be stronger than theirs. Like I said, kdwide military gap is growing. Their setup is very suicide-oriented; the most dspecs any of their avians have is 66k. Then 55k. Then 45k. Or; they only have 4 of 15 avians with more than 35k dspecs. We're pretty off heavy as well, but we're also more gs/hosp heavy than they are, and our elites are tankier plus we gain off in war.
Then there's this - we've taken count/hit at home with elites home on many of their higher off provs thus far, which really hurts WH attackers.
Seeing Panda has a lot quicker core(Humans vs Avians), wouldnt it be favourable for them to outgain on core for 48hrs and just WD/Re-engage? (like Pyro on FS?).
In hostile, they're limited by the amount of hits they can make - and provs in nw range for them have less land (since human nw so high)
In war, humans have +20 OME, which is straight up scary. It's a tricky spot for them for sure.
Sounds like they might have dragged hostile a little too long for their setup vs yours, if your account of events is spot on.
True about the b2b but Avians should be able to outhit yours (in speed) fairly well if they have the offense to land as many triple/quads as you do, that said not if they losing it quick by being hit army home.
Yes they would have to outhit and outgain you by a fair margin to do b2b.
I'll post my thoughts on Avians after the conflict is over.
hint: godly mad that our top core prov is the ghetto setup prov avian tact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
What about panda tms?
Pandas seems to secure their tms, are they ub?
Who needs tools when you can decapitate a lion with one kick :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Pandas probably had to remove our gc before they could declare, which didn't really finish happening until this morning, when they started to be able to use rogue stealth to go after one of our human cows. The issue now is that their kdwide offense is down a lot, which makes it hard to exploit the NS. They have 7 provs left over 800k suicide off (then 1 at 700k and 1 at 600k), and only 3 that can reach 1m (leaving 225k, 421k, and 234k). The human they're NSing atm can send ~550k off and keep 1m def currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
No, not even close. They're safe vs our core, but our cows -- which have been busy securing the top vs their cows and can now safely send 1m+ off -- can easily break/multitap them.Quote:
What about panda tms?
Pandas seems to secure their tms, are they ub?
for example:
Your forces arrive at We Are Legion (top def fae). A tough battle took place, but we have managed a victory! Your army burned and destroyed 442 acres!
We lost 6,633 Berserkers and 6,633 horses in this battle.
We killed about 13,252 enemy troops.
Our forces will be available again in 13.70 days (on March 17 of YR9).
Avian tact? Aww. That's cute!! :) ...not optimal for whore wars though, heh. Or any other war for that matter... :p How many you got, and where?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Ahem. They have been carrying this clown fiesta of a kd ever since Jan0Yr0
Oh, there are 4 of them. It's cute cause they're faster than Panda avians so they're able to camp army home hits
All our avians are tacts. Humans and dwarves are merchQuote:
Originally Posted by Tadpole
First, thank you for the detailed response, this helped a lot! I still have a couple questions that I hope you could answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
1. Obviously using those stocks on extra troops rather than for dragons means less dragons during the war. I understand wars at the top are shorter and more focused on acres since war is used as more of a tool to gain acres more than gaining war wins, unlike the rest of the game. Is it still worth pumping to that degree in longer "ghetto" wars that are more win-at-all-costs style, even if it means sacrificing a dragon or 2?
2. Is it still worth pumping to that degree on a solo prov if the rest of the kd only pumps to 3-4ppa? Or does this need to be a kingdom wide pump strat to work? Obviously you would be chained first in war, but you would still hold up in a chain better than a prov who was only pumped to 3-4ppa right?
it would be pretty hard to pump to -3 ppa in anything outside a top kd. it takes a LOT of stock to afford to draft that deep while still having gc for dragons/wagse. Figure we had about 10kgcpa when we built our homes on all provs and that was a bit cheap for normal pump like this. Getting 10kgcpa without it being robbed or without you getting brutalized for being on high enough ppa to stock it is borderline impossible.
as for the single prov, i'd say it'd be worth it depending on where you were in the kd. if your ub because of it and can't be op'd by anyone then it's definitely worth it. If your 70% the size of their top core, then probably not super worth it.
The game just really changes when you can afford to prep. For most kd's, war is about control peons for the most part. In the top you can afford to draft so deep that if the other guy has any peons he gets roasted, but then both are pretty much dead on econ outside of what they have stocked.
wait jwuzi's foot actually got amputated...??? or....
I see, and that's why top kds always complain about gcs disappearing, because they cant draft as deep if they don't have an insane amount. Interesting. But then even getting to extremely low ppa, like 1 ppa, would be better than 3-4ppa right, assuming you had the gcs saved to pay for wages, etc.?
No he suffered a fractured vagina.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
The amount of QQ witnessed from a grown man getting a wart removed was beyond ridiculous.
Yes. It's mostly a diplo based situation. By being larger you reduce the number of wildcards adjacent to your vulnerable position. You don't see many top players take an age off and attempt the same depth in a standard kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiliest
Come on bruh, they try that chit every damn age. People like Squee end up "filling" for 3 ages. Don't ever agree to create a prov and set sitter for 3 weeks at start of age for them, you'll end up crowning. Every age they are like Drake after a break up.Quote:
Originally Posted by era
Did you forget to wear your flip flops in the gym shower?Quote:
Originally Posted by jwuzi
http://i.qkme.me/3p68zl.jpg
Vir may be bad at this game and a drug addict but he's not ugly, don't be a hater.
It's out of your control, but kicking him from TGK is... Do the right thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Like topsy mentioned, it depends on where your kd / prov is and if the situation would pay off. If there is a solo province that is loaded while the rest of the kd suffers, it might be in the best interest to divide some extra funds across other provinces to help them draft deeper in general. It is one of the reasons why top kd's do not like being robbed / plundered when they look to be 'loaded' due to the cost of drafting down to -2ppa and still having funds for wages/dragons, etc. It's also generally why the smaller provs in the top kd's are worse pumped then the larger ones seeing the large ones are typically well out of range of robs/random plunders which allows higher gcpa for deeper drafts / higher science levels, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiliest
It's worth mentioning that usually when you are drafted that deep (-2 or -3 PPA), kds tend to run their provs as a/t or at least attackers with high (think 4+) raw TPA. This enables them to kidnap as soon as they get pop space, as well -- so if you hit, lose 5% of your mil (call it 1 MPA), then get 10% of your land in, now you're underpop and can use your thieves to acquire peasants from the other kingdom that wasn't as drafted, alleviating one of the weaknesses of the strategy.
Additionally, the war tier isn't like the top tier -- the top tier, conflicts are deciding by timing more than anything. In the war tier, conflicts can easily be backed out of with no/low repurcussions. The net result is that you have to have very similar NWs. This is a drawback of the deep pump strategy; because you're often fighting a kingdom that is significantly larger (in land) as a result. Which means you aren't really gaining as much of a per-prov military advantage as the larger prov will have similar total military counts (less, because they have land nw/etc), but similar.
I see, very interesting stuff! Thanks for the in-depth explanation everyone!
You're welcome, I hope my answers made senseQuote:
Originally Posted by Wiliest
They were propro answers Ben!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DM_Benjamin
I learnt a new uto descriptive phrase today. It's called 'clown fiesta'
On a side note yay to #IronOreVolatility #kaching
It is a common gaming term currently in the meme culture that we live in.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne
I've setup a list of clowns in the clown fiesta. The details are currently classified but I will release them once conflict is over.
Update on the conflict?
https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8758143744/h8FFA72A5/Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReid