Human Sage Example Province

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Originally Posted by vines

I do not plan on using my prisoners. Of course if I need them I will send them out. However, it will be rare that I will need to use them. In two or three attacks one can fill 4.5% jails.

His off ME is higher, however, his ME is lower meaning off ME and def ME. And if I wanted I could ditch some other buildings to get a higher offME but that's dumb. Depending on how many wizards he gains. If he gain .4-.5 wpa worth of wizards it's going to lower his income by a lot.

Thing you said about the science. 100books in food science and 100 books in tool or pop science will give one more benefits verses 200 books in tool or housing.

BE is not over rated. It makes one's province stronger without adding networth. Now telling me how getting more power for the same networth is over rated? Yeah that's what I thought. Just stop talking sh*t greenie.

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so... you arent planning on using the BEST offensive building?
and no... unless you hit a gnome with TW, you cant fill 4.5% dungeons in 3 hits
in gen where you get a bonus to off ME, it actually makes more sense to get higher TG's as the bonus's compoung
and whilst 100-100 might be about right, 200-200 certainly isnt... you would be better putting 300 in tools and 100 in food rather than 200 in each

and BE is over rated, cause you either have to drop your DR to get higher BE, which gives you lower nw... OR build a heap of homes to get your pop up, which INCREASES your nw

also, please see below:

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Originally Posted by nubie

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Originally Posted by vines

Sure it does. There is a reason why my ME is higher then that viscount's ME that reason is because of my BE. BE allow one's buildings to be more effective. That means I do not need as many farms, my guilds make more wizards, my forts and tgs give more ME, my towers give me more runes, and I have a +100% birthrate (maxed out) which is due to my BE.

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Doesn't that make a dwarf with 50% homes the best strategy?

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why stop at 50%????
vines's argument is that high BE = better econ & power
i could build 80% homes, 10% farms, 10% banks, train everything except the pezzies needed to run those buildings
ill have 100% BE, but my econ and prov will be a heap of sh*t

tomorrow is a great day because vines will post his province again.

*waiting to see the new features in vines' province*

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Originally Posted by _greenie

why stop at 50%????
vines's argument is that high BE = better econ & power
i could build 80% homes, 10% farms, 10% banks, train everything except the pezzies needed to run those buildings
ill have 100% BE, but my econ and prov will be a heap of sh*t

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Be careful you don't come across a province named Queens Love running that strategy.

Greenie you talk about how long it will take to fill up 4.5% jail. From that statement I know that you do not know what you're talking about. Filling up jail is easy and only takes two or three attacks. I know because I have experience with filling jails up and you don't. You have no clue.

Greenie one still would get more bonus from 200 books in both vs. 300books in tools and 100 books in food.

The reason homes help econ is because it keeps jobs filled, building running at there best. If you over do it you are cutting into the jobs you need to run your provinces.

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Originally Posted by vines

Greenie you talk about how long it will take to fill up 4.5% jail. From that statement I know that you do not know what you're talking about. Filling up jail is easy and only takes two or three attacks. I know because I have experience with filling jails up and you don't. You have no clue.

Greenie one still would get more bonus from 200 books in both vs. 300books in tools and 100 books in food.

The reason homes help econ is because it keeps jobs filled, building running at there best. If you over do it you are cutting into the jobs you need to run your provinces.

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*sigh* and with this post I conclude vines can not possibly be real... probably VT2 or something(although his self arguments would have had to be brilliant). Oh well.

Greenie... just walk away. you're better than this.

everything he said there is true... what are you guys talking about??

4.5% jail WOULD take 2-3 atks assuming you dont send out prisoners. i run ~2% and almost never have any problem keeping them full unless i hit elves.

hes right about the books to. we all know sci is diminishing returns so spreading out books give you more bonuses overall

its like if you have 1m points in income adding another 1m points into income wont have
as big effect as 1m in Tools instead... the way he does it he gets max sci benefit, but not an excessive amount of the more useful ones.


and from vines point of view he would stop homes when his **BASE** BE reaches 100%, now i have no idea what % of homes that is but going over wont help anyone.


not saying his ideas are good but hes not talking nonsense, either


btw vines u ruined your prov when you trained 70 dpa of knights..

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Originally Posted by vines

Greenie you talk about how long it will take to fill up 4.5% jail. From that statement I know that you do not know what you're talking about. Filling up jail is easy and only takes two or three attacks. I know because I have experience with filling jails up and you don't. You have no clue.

Greenie one still would get more bonus from 200 books in both vs. 300books in tools and 100 books in food.

The reason homes help econ is because it keeps jobs filled, building running at there best. If you over do it you are cutting into the jobs you need to run your provinces.

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actually vines, if you use them for the actual purpose (ie, sending out on attacks) its almost mathematically impossible (and not your maths, real maths!) to fill 4.5% dungeons

and for 27 pop/acre (8% pop, no homes, no honor) you need 7 bushels/acre (rounded up) this require 10% farms as standard (no FL) @ 100% BE

(7k food/hr @ 1k acres)

with FL that drops to 8%

now, 200 BPA gives you +14% BE and +113% food
this means you can drop your farms down to 3.4% farms (with FL)
34 * 70 * 1.14 (BE) * 2.13 (farm sci) *1.25 (fl) = 7223.895 bushels/hr

300 bpa in tools & 100bpa in food will give you +17% BE and +80% farms
this means you can drop your farms to 3.9% farms (with FL)
39 * 70 * 1.17 * 1.8 * 1.25 = 7186.725 bushels/hr

now, tell me that the extra 3% BE wont save 0.5% land elsewhere =)

and i know vines will tell me thats all very very wrong, cause in vines' world, 1/92 = 0.92
but im hoping that he can multiply better than he can divide!

(EDIT: just realised i calced that for a non-human, for a human its likely even more depressing)
(EDIT2: and yes, i know people will likely have more than 8% pop sci if they have +17% BE)

At 110%BE I would need to gain another 7%BE to equal 1% Buildings.
100bpa food science = 100% more food, 300bpa tool science = 121.7BE.
200bpa food science = 141.4% more food, 200 tool science = 117.7BE.
I rather have the second one.

@toast

i think u didnt realize that vine's prov had about 40% homes.

@ greenie

i think u CAN fill 4.5% dungeon in 3 hits in hostile if u do not send ur own prisoners out every time. im not saying its a good idea tho

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Originally Posted by vines

At 110%BE I would need to gain another 7%BE to equal 1% Buildings.
100bpa food science = 100% more food, 300bpa tool science = 121.7BE.
200bpa food science = 141.4% more food, 200 tool science = 117.7BE.
I rather have the second one.

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by my calcs (see previous post) you have to run 0.5% less farms if you have even split, compared to 3:1

the thing you have to realise, is that ALL your buildings are 3% more effective

so, if before you have 15% TG's @ 114% BE you got 21.8% offense bonus
at 117% BE, you need 14.5% to get the same bonus...
you have already gained your land back, JUST from TG's

add in the fact you only need 14.5 forts rather than 15%, and you now have 0.5% more land to put elsewhere!!!

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Originally Posted by waheed

@ greenie

i think u CAN fill 4.5% dungeon in 3 hits in hostile if u do not send ur own prisoners out every time. im not saying its a good idea tho

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maybe if you hit someone will little to no hosps, or some gnomes with TW, but i find it hard to believe you could fill 4.5% dungeons when hitting someone with at least -30% losses...

When you gain land your bpas go down so your food science bonus goes down and also you need more food because your new land brings more people. So by calculation you really need more 1% farms instead of .5% less farms.

I see what you are talking about on your point about the TGs. I have long ago I already thought about that.

I need to stay away from this thread, I start shaking when reading vines' posts.

Well stop jacking off when you read my threads and you would stop shaking.

vines can you please address the issue of how your having a lower draft to have a higher BE actually makes your province stronger compared to someone the same size with a higher draft and more military units trained...

I fail to see how the BE reduction (say 25% reduction if you like) will make such a significant impact that the province with the higher military could not attack and defend at a better level than having a lower draft and the same building structure...

Then add into the mix that people will compensate in other ways in the areas they wish to focus on - overbulding etc to make up for lower BE effects and tell me how again it is stronger not to run a strategy more specific to the role at hand (attacker in this case)