Discussing politics is a hobby.
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Discussing politics is a hobby.
Flaming Americans is a way of life apparently :PQuote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
LOL, silly Europeans. Can we send the Liberals back to you? America is a Republic not a Democracy, Majority rule doesn't apply. The Constitution is the Law of the land not the majority of the people. Still sometimes I think the Article of Confederation would be better, not to be confused with the Confederate States of America Constitution.
Here is a Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuUr...eature=related
Flame away! 'chuckle'
1. we do have social security, however because of our superior medical system our ppl are living WAY longer than anyone ever anticipated. This is costing us more money than previously believed(partly due to inflation). We do need a revamp of the system and we need to ensure that those currently dependent on the system are taken care of.Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffi
2.No health coverage, okay, if you get welfare you qualify for a medical card. a basic co-pay from your job typically costs $15 for a single and $35 for a family of 5 per month. If your rich you have really good health coverage. The ppl complaining about not having coverage are only complaining b/c netflix and Wii are more important than the health of their families.
3. 40 million poor is a lot, cant argue with that, what i can argue with is WTF are they doing about it. (I'm in that 40 million btw). I'm currently working to gain assets and money to franchise a restaurant. A lot of people don't have the intelligence or the drive to know how to build or run a company. There are many govt and public assistance programs out there and with the internet there is no reason a person cant self educate. There is no shame in being poor,some ppl choose to stay poor b/c of the humbling lifestyle.
4.Trailer Trash, This kinda leads back to the poor thing, trailers are cheap to buy and lot rent is also low. So a lot of times ppl who cant afford a house (we aren't talking ppl who simply live in a mobile home we are talking straight trash here) due to poor life choices end up in trailers and you have trailer trash. Now trailer trash isn't just limited to trailers trashy ppl are everywhere, its a part of the I don't give a F+*/ generations from the 70's and 80's, not to say trash didn't exist before that it was just less mediatized. (is that a word, if not I'm trademarking it)
5. the middle class is disappearing because the children of the previous middle class are idiots, and so are their children. They try to live outside their means. They want their children to have a better start than they had. with a 50-75k a year job YOU CANT AFFORD 3 KIDS A DOG A 300K HOUSE 2 CARS a boat and a yearly family vacation. all that stuff is why you don't have healthcare. kids you need to understand(do kids play utopia?) if you are going to be successful in life its not by starting where your parents are now, you have to work your ars off to reach that point.
6. I think this is a media and states rights issue. 2% of Americans are atheist. They get way too much voice. not to say anyone should be denied free speech, but we are a country based on God. No any particular or specific God, just God. The idea that one exists and our country is ordained by Him/Her/It. As it just so happens 87% of the USA identify themselves with Christianity. (many of our founding fathers were not Christians) If you don't know, our country is divided into states and each state is supposed to be able to govern the way the people in that state see fit to be governed. Therefore each state has the right to include any religion they see fit into their laws, or not. The constitution says the federal Govt doesn't have the right to stop them, however mistranslation and lobbying by atheist and anti-christian platforms has led to the removal of religion from govt instead of govt from religion. States rights is what makes America great because if you don't like the law in one state go to another that suits you better knowing that you will be free to live under a rule of law chosen by like minded people. As for just straight Fanatics as in bat poo insane, they need to read their holy books a little more (unless your book is telling you to kill everyone). I know many Christians don't read theirs enough, or try hard enough to understand the message. Live and let live, do unto others as you would have done unto you, Love Jesus and your bretherin, and take pity on those without.
7. Look up our past presidents, nothing has changed here. Some of the Dems have been even more cowboy than Bush.
8. Media and poor parenting. (also could be the fluoride in the water.) do you see the s**t they put on American TV these days i don't even have to list shows there are so many, you can all think of an example in less than a second. Also we aren't as stupid as our media portrays us. Every country has a few gray crayons in the box.
In all i think we arent as bad as we seem, we just need to fix a few things and get our budget balanced. We do need to do something about our media.
no but we owe china trillions of dollars, so we are shipping jobs over seas to china to pay off this so called "debt" to them XDQuote:
Originally Posted by goodz
and also, and also, and also, china pratically owns USA <3 (well not really, but we have huge debt with them... so they may as well) I think only thing stopping them from invading us is the fact we are shipping our jobs to their country but i could be wrong :o
just my opinion. Not stating a fact or anything just my thoughts about it
Keep in mind China doesn't own it all we barrow from other nations. China just owns the largest amount, look it up. Plus did you know we get most of our crude oil from Canada and Mexico? Look it up.
Wow this was well said spyder! I agree with everything you said here.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder882001
Another thing on trailers. Many apartments now want 2 months rent in advance just to move in. In NJ here that can be 1600+ dollars for a halfway decent 1 bedroom apartment. You can often find someone that would take a down payment on a trailer for that amount and you own the thing in the long run, instead of just handing over all that money to a landlord (like I do)
same post as European thread applies to US.
countries need to take back their banking from the IMF / WB organizations and flush them from their ranks.
They are the true enemies to freedom.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to allow a for profit institution to print your own currency then loan it to you?.. collect interest, demand payment in real assets?
mobilize the military, sieze their assets, and charge them for their crimes against humanity.
U wanna see mess up country...go search Liberia documentry on youtube..that is what i call mess up
80% unemployment
Civil war
Rapes, prostitution everywhere
Canibalism
Stupid things have been said.
#1 Republics are not mob rule.
The only time the public gets to vote on laws is to approve a change to the constitution. Aside from that they never vote or have their opinions voice aside through their elected officials who rarely vote on anything the public is concerned about besides a few trivial hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage. Everything else they vote on is beyond the public care or understanding due to their lack of care and poor education.
#2 The US is no longer a Republic; of the people, by the people and for the people.
"A republic is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern or property of the rulers, and where offices of states are subsequently directly or indirectly elected." Since 1819 Corporations have been given the right to petition the government like a normal citizen through donation, legal suit and protest. Slowly since this inception presidential elections have become more similar to appointments meaning, the outcome of the election is predetermined. Today elections are predetermined. Not only was there a smear campaign to prevent Paul from being taken seriously but when he was poised to win IOWA ~30,000 votes across 3 counties went uncounted. The republican election commissioner later resigned in disgrace. There have also been studies on the irregularity between paper and electronic voting. See Links below.
3. as off 2010 there are 18% are non-theist.
A survey of 100,000 random Americans concluded this. The previous survey in 2000 showed 8%. That's more than a 100% rise. Religious trolls take note your days are numbered and I personally couldn't be happier about that. Thanks to the rise in literacy and rational questioning more and more people read the bible and i can think of no better tool of atheist conversion.
4. poor people don't work hard; that's why they are poor.
Most poor people I know work 60 or more hours a week at two or more jobs that pay less than 10$ per hour. The reason the middle class and the poor are merging is simple and has absolutely nothing to do with work ethic. Due to inflation and increased taxation the cost of living is steadily rising. If you look at the average wage over the last 100 years you will find that there has not been a proportional raise in wages since 1971. Quite simply, it costs more to live and instead of corporations sharing their profits through wages and benefits we find that they have simply increased their profit margins and left workers behind.
Ill edit this later and add more citations + criticisms later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executi...egal_conflicts
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
Princeston Study On diebold voting machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWjobaYAuM
http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/facu...amos/paper.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
Stopped reading at ... "butt hurt retards"
more like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRtlUi3OJ_cQuote:
Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais
5. Why is it wrong for republicans to commit war crimes, but its OK for democrats?
Where are the "liberals" now? Why is it wrong for bush to invade Iraq b.c the leader is "bad" and ok for Obama to blow up Libya for the same purpose. Why is it wrong for Bush to condone torture camps buts its OK for Obama? Why was it wrong for Bush to imprison/torture US citizens w.o trial but its OK for Obama to literally murder US citizens w.o trial; including children who have not even been accused of a crime.
Does your morality really depend on whether or not you belong to the party in charge? They are both war criminals. In 50 years you will have to live with the shame of supporting them. When the Empire falls these leaders will be seen in the same light as Hitler; and your grandchildren will ask you how you could have been so wrong.
Up Vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/ref...aki/index.html
America is awesome. America hasn't gotten worse, its gotten better. There is a lot of complaining about what we don't have here, but our 40 million poor have it better off the most of the world.
Most people who complain aren't even that bad off, just unhappy that their candidate didn't win. They then complain about how bad it has gotten as a way of expressing that unhappiness. When you choose to put down the US form the outside you're just yapping. Funny how the originator of this thread got all uppity when their own country was put down in response to the fact that they slammed ours! LOL Stoffi, don't dish it if you can't take it.
US has objectively gotten worse since Ronnie Raygun got a bunch of suckers to buy into his BS in the 80s. It sucks ass for someone who's stuck here more than anyone else.
There is no meaningful difference between the democratic and republican parties. I can support neither. The only differences at all are the trivial social issues they attempt to but rarely ever legislate. These are red herrings used to distract the public from the egregious war crimes committed by both sides. I use the terms war and war crimes as they are defined by international law to which the US has signed in agreement; all citations below. Though the US media does not use terms accurately; in the last 10 years we have started illegal wars in Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Pakistan, Iran and Syria. In the past we have murdered and rigged elections to secure corporate contracts. Obama can now “legally” murder or imprison indefinitely anyone, US citizen or not with out trial or public notice. You can literally be black bagged, dragged from your home and murdered. There is no need to notify your family; you are just gone. We have fallen from a nation opposed to tyranny to the most expansive and tyrannical empire to ever exist.
Since 2007, we have been funding illegal operations in Iran. We have destroyed property using sophisticated computer viruses and assassinated scientists and political leaders. Since the 1970s to present We have armed al qaeda as its influence spread from Bosnia to Afghanistan, to Libya and to Syria; with the latest and greatest NATO personnel weaponry. In the recent past we murdered the democratically elected leaders of Libya, DR Congo, Vietnam, El Salvador and Chile and replaced them with brutal military dictators who went on to murder thousands and in sum, millions of their own citizens. That is just a to name a few of the most documented cases. The CIA is on the record rigging elections in over 20 countries. Here in the USA there has been congressional testimonies and academically controlled studies which prove massive electronic election fraud took place in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012.
Candidates have no legitimacy. Obama and Bush both ran their 1st campaigns on anti-war platforms. Obama even claimed he would declassify all bush era documents and end CIA prisons like GITMO. Instead he has increased funding, codified the civil rights abuses of the Bush era and added people like wiki leaks Julian Assange to his new International Kill Lists whereby he claims the right to murder or imprison indefinitely, anyone with out trial; US citizen or not.
Meanwhile the population at home is being driven slowly into poverty; of property, education and morality. The proportional wage (wage adjusted for inflation) has not risen since 1971, meanwhile corporate profits have soared along with the cost of living. The U.S. is in the middle of a great depression, annually 14.5% of the population goes hungry and countless are homeless. Unlike US gov't figures; who exclude those out of work for more than 6 months from their unemployment figures the real unemployment is 34%. If it were not for the benefits of better farming, transport, refining, and communications technology the suffering would surpass the depression of 1929 by a wide margin. The cost of education has increased by more than 500% in 25 years. Meanwhile the quality has plummeted. I can tell you what passes for history in this day and age is laughable from an academic perspective. Narrative survey history has replaced legitimate primary source based historical analysis in most schools k-undergrad college. You pretty much have to go for Masters or better before you get anything besides watered down propaganda. There is not enough time or room in this thread to address the collapse of American morality but I ask you to simply turn on your television or radio and observe with an open mind and you will see my point clearly.
America as it was taught to you in history books is dead. It has been dead for a long time. There are a number of dates I could site as to when the change began but it is more accurately understood as a gradual process that has taken the better part of 200 years to complete. I think Thomas Jefferson said it best “Periodic revolution, at least once every 20 years is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” To those of you who still disagree and think we live in a great and moral nation I say to you “so did the Germans, so did the Russians.” Belief does not make reality, I urge you to read the documents and turn off the hypnotic propaganda you receive via television. Come to your own opinion after assessing the facts for yourself. Don't let some suit with a 7 figure salary discover the world for you. You are free to make up your own mind if you choose.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1320515.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...4_gallery.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/
DieBold testimony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs&1
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electio...rable-to-fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
http://books.google.com/books?id=naO...20iran&f=false
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...est-attack-on/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeles..._United_States
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/...nger_facts.htm
http://www.inflation.us/
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
http://killinghope.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ary_operations
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...trike_near.php
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012.../pers-d05.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_...change_actions
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
Unemployment has fallen for the first time in 4 years apparently... so hopefully things kick start and start getting better
the US gov't only tracks a very narrowly defined portion of the workers when generating those figures. I'm quite certain those numbers had more to do with the election than anything else.
Ridiculousness incarnateQuote:
Originally Posted by Crazyguy
I wish that i lived in the U.S, i hope to do so. I do not know much at all about the politics but apart from anything else America has spacecraft. Nuff said.
There's a lot of sense here and in your former post. The US is not a real republic anymore; some very rich and powerful men pretty much control everything and what would be considered serious corruption in other countries is fully allowed in the US. Lobbies, companies bribing presidents to vote in their favour, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by thephatman
In addition, the two party system effectively limits a real democratic process.
The political system in the US needs reform and quick. The Congress is no longer working at all, the President is paid off by big corps, you HAVE TO be rich to become president, etc. Meanwhile, USA's middle class is sinking down into poverty and the working class is becoming even poorer. Americans don't understand that their people need higher wages to buy goods and in that way stimulate the economy. If everyone's too poor to buy anything, then nothing will be bought and companies will go bankrupt.
However, you are wrong at one point. Taxation is not a big reason why people are poor in the US. Taxes are very low and always have been. In Norway, you pay around 36% tax on an average salary of 80000 dollars, and 47% on everything above. In addition, everything you buy is heavily taxed.
In the US, you can still potentially become nearly everything you want, but it is a lot harder than doing the same in most other Western countries. Social mobility in the US is low.
I am glad you agree. The political scene in USA has become rather cartoonish over the last 12 years and it saddens me to see people divided over imaginary party lines. However I'm not sure I made the point that income tax is responsible for poverty in USA. I did make a point about the inflation tax combined with a lack of proportional wages maybe you confused that with income tax. What i said was that Americans have not had a proportional raise in wages to compete with the raise in living costs since 1971. "You might be thinking hey, i got a raise in wages last quarter. This guy is full of ****" Essentially 2 forces combined, 1 Inflation (the devaluation of the currency aka Reduction in buying power per dollar) 2 Corporate Greed, you see in the past as inflation increases wages went up b.c the dollars have been devalued so more of them must be paid in order to = the same value. For the mean (average) this balance has not been maintained since 1971. Meaning the average joe worker has taken home less real value every year since 1971. When you consider that this average includes stock brokers and CEO's you can realize how much less the normal man has really taken home each year.
In the USA you can become anything you want if you have enough money. If you are entering the work force now I suggest you become a criminal b.c your 100% ****ed getting a proper job in today's market with out a science degree or 20 years experience doing the job already.
Also Astronomer, America "had" spacecraft. I was all for American Empire so long as it meant we got sweet space toys. Nasa has been slowly destroyed by the last 3 presidents. Soon all they will do is operate telescopes and robots. I have hopes that the private US space industry will have success. But i fear that people are too narrow minded to see the strategic benefits of space travel. Im sure when boats were a new invention there were plenty of nay Sayers talking about how we should stop wasting energy making these pointless boats when there are hungry people in the tribe. Not realizing ofc that boats can be used to fish..
These same ppl don't understand that Moons can be farmed. Asteroids mined...
I probably misread on the taxation part. ^^ Wages haven't kept up indeed, whilst the rich have gotten a lot richer.Quote:
Originally Posted by thephatman
As for NASA and space, unless we get out into space and colonise planets within x(could be 50, could be 500000 years) amount of years, we are dead. An asteroide WILL collide with us, huuuuuge vulcanos will erupt and give us 1000 years of winter. But also, we will in the end be like the natives of Easter Island. They chopped down all the trees and found out they had no way to get out, and their population dwindled because without natural resources(wood), they could only support a certain life style. We will too run out of coal, oil, Thorium, iron, metals, Uranium, etc etc. These things don't last forever.
We need to get out there, get a colony on the Moon or Mars, travel to other solar systems. It may seem impossible right now, but we need small steps. Our world today is just as unimaginable for people 200 years ago as colonising other solar systems is to us today. But it WILL happen. And sooner rather than later. :)
On that we agree 100%. I think it was Stephen Hawking who 1st said that mans greatest enemy is asteroids.
Didn't US "colonize" the moon? Maybe you can start there? =P
There is actually human faeces on the moon.
Great start...
Humans are great like that. Have you heard about the Monolith on Phobos. Buzz Aldrin is convinced.
black muslim president...
Barack Obama is nothing more than Bush the 2nd. I suggest you read the record instead of watching the divisional news propaganda machine. If people could think for a moment they would realize that these divisions between us are imaginary. We all want the same things, peace, stability, freedom, the 2 party system exists to deny us these things by pitting us against ourselves while passing the laws that take away our Peace, Stability, Freedom quietly behind the curton.
Look up Harold White, he's working on proving a theory of a modified ward drive that will make space travel signifcantly faster. It pretty awesome stuff.Quote:
We need to get out there, get a colony on the Moon or Mars, travel to other solar systems. It may seem impossible right now, but we need small steps. Our world today is just as unimaginable for people 200 years ago as colonising other solar systems is to us today. But it WILL happen. And sooner rather than later. :)
His work is groundbreaking and if he's able to accomplish his goal it will change everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeKan
This conversation has veered.
This is why Sweden rules
I love it here. I think were doing great. The biggest problem is spoiled whiners that think they need more! Who said there was no Social Security? Social Security just got a 5% INCREASE!Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffi
40 million poor are better off then most of the rest of the world.
Trailer Trash? WTF? this country was forged from the back of Conestoga wagons.
Middle Class isn't withering away. The media is just redefining what the "Middle Class" is. Both sides of the aisle is now defining "median income" as above $400,000 annually. This is up from the previous $250,000. That makes the middle class smaller.
Religious Fanatics taking over? Religious fanatics founded this country.
Mad cowboy presidents? Like George Washington?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffi
24 pages is too much to read.. so I'll just reply to the first post..
The US is in better shape than a lot of the more socialist countries. All you have to do is look at all of the European countries that are having massive financing issues right now and then you see these same individuals look at the US and then judge. (I'm not saying you are one of these individuals, only using it as an example to set the scene for what I am writing) The US also is probably the most internationally publicized country in the world. They are in everything, and everyone in the world feels the need to watch them. It is somewhat understandable, everyone's economy is more or less linked, and the US has been a major leader in world politics for years.
With that said, the US is also one of the more ignorant in the world. I'm not saying the people are stupid, there are stupid people EVERYWHERE.. I've traveled the world enough to know that the actual level of "intelligence" is pretty similar no matter where you go. However, ignorance (not to be confused with stupidity) has been bred in the US for a few generations now, mostly in the more religious regions. In a country that practically panders to the religious groups whilst trying to say they keep them separate, it makes it very easy for these groups to gain influence, most notably Christians. This is where we begin to get into the issue.
The mindset of many American Christians is disturbing to say the least. I will use an example I saw recently... A "young earth" christian called into an Athiest TV show (Why they felt the need to force his beliefs upon each other, I do not know) and attempted to argue his view on the world. (to summarize what young earth Christians believe, based on the bible, the earth is about 6,000 years old. If you ask a geologist, it's closer to 4.5 billion years) I won't go into details on what they argued about, it's not important, but the basic gist of it was, the young earth christian would believe what he believes despite any proof you can provide, because it's what the bible says.
Now I don't care what people believe. If you want to believe the earth was created by space mice and they will return one day to eat all of our cheese and enslave our fish, then knock yourself out. Why do people care so much about what other people believe? Why do they feel compelled to FORCE their beliefs upon others? This dedication to their religion is a good example of what is wrong with the US today. If you refuse to believe one thing because it disagrees with your religious following, what else will you do?
Most Americans don't believe in evolution. It is to be noted that the vast majority of the scientific community believes in evolution.
One of the biggest factors in today's politics is religion. Why does this matter so much? Can a person not have strong morals without following a religion? What about party loyalty? A study was done, and found that many people's views on specific issues, clashed with the views of the party they identified themselves with.
If you want to fix the US, you need to do a few things.
1. Remove religion and all the special treatement it gets from the government entirely. No more tax free, no more special consideration. They can file as a non-profit organization like everyone else.
2. Get rid of the party system. It is ridiclous and only hurt's their progress as a nation.
3. Remove the bias from the news, and start holding them accountable for what they report and what they don't.
4. Ban lobbyists from profitable organizations (like businesses) They often hold back progress for the sake of their own bottom line. It hurts their country in the long run. You evolve or you die, let them learn this for themselves.
Before those things are done, the country will continue to struggle. They don't need to be socialized to be successful. They do need to get rid of these silly distractions so they can focus on what's important, like fixing their education system.
Anyways, that is my 2 cents (or 30 cents.. It's a fair bit)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyguy
You do realize that the founding fathers were hardly religious by today's standards, right? Besides, time's change.. This should be the age of science and innovation, not ignorance and bullying.
The founding fathers were EXTREMELY religious by today's standards. Speaking of ignorance, the original post is not based on fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySports
Bullying? To disagree is to bully now? Nevermind that the original post was extremely disrespectful of America! If anything on this thread is bullying its this post which disparages my countrymen:
(BY STOFFI)
"I mean, no social security, no health coverage, 40 million poor, plenty more trailer trash, a middle class withering away, religious fanatics taking over, mad cowboy presidents and ignorance flourishing."
The founding fathers were religious, but this country was originally formed by Colonists who were so religiously fanatical that they left their country of origin, traveled for months with little food and water, and settled here to be able to practice their religion.
You can call it "bullying" that I picked apart the false, disparaging statements one by one and pointed out with fact they were nothing but slanderous attacks against my nationality, but it is not.
Ben Franklin:
"
"And now I speak of thanking God, I desire with all Humility to acknowledge, that I owe the mention'd Happiness of my past Life to his kind Providence, which led me to the Means I us'd and gave them Success. "
George Washington:
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."
and (one of my favorite) Also by Washington
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
Wow if that were said today, it would be called fanatical.
Here is a list of more quotes from Washington:
http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/...ashington.html
Francis Scott Key:
“Nothing but Christianity will give you the victory. Until a man believes in his heart that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Master... his course through life will be neither safe nor pleasant. My only regret is that I was so long blinded by my pleasures, my vices and pursuits, and the examples of others that I was kept fr...om seeing, admiring, and adoring the marvelous light of the gospel.”
So your statement:
"You do realize that the founding fathers were hardly religious by today's standards, right? Besides, time's change.. This should be the age of science and innovation, not ignorance and bullying."
Is nothing more then a falsehood written to disparage my intellect which is by definition bullying, and ignorance.
You mention 2 out of the 7 key founding fathers. Francis Scott Key was not a founding father.
Apart from that, america was colonised by religious nutjobs and that still seems to be the case.