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07-04-2016, 18:16
Dazzanub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

In this situation Bishop is not the court, he is the prosecutor presenting evidence of cheating. The public 3rd parties are the court.

In fact he is the prosecution and the court. Gtfo. Quit making stuff up
07-04-2016, 18:17
Alaric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

This isn't public court, this is a private business with private assets, private procedures and an obvious requirement to keep detection methods out of the eyes of potential cheaters.

A screenshot will expose some of our detection methods, I am not going to do that. This is standard across the gaming industry.

Lets be clear, what you presented here was not evidence, it was your word that THE REAL evidence that you cannot show, contained that information. If you want to protect the company assets thats fine, but if you have the power to never need to prevent evidence what stops you from deleting anyone at anytime for any reason? What fail-safes exist to prevent arbitrary deletion of anyone in this game?
07-04-2016, 18:23
Bishop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

Lets be clear, what you presented here was not evidence, it was your word that THE REAL evidence that you cannot show, contained that information. If you want to protect the company assets thats fine, but if you have the power to never need to prevent evidence what stops you from deleting anyone at anytime for any reason? What fail-safes exist to prevent arbitrary deletion of anyone in this game?

None, zero, nadda. It entirely rests on me. I am, and have been for 6 years, the main reason this game is here.
07-04-2016, 18:31
Korp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

Lets be clear, what you presented here was not evidence, it was your word that THE REAL evidence that you cannot show, contained that information. If you want to protect the company assets thats fine, but if you have the power to never need to prevent evidence what stops you from deleting anyone at anytime for any reason? What fail-safes exist to prevent arbitrary deletion of anyone in this game?

I think you should first present evidence that you're not a multi.
07-04-2016, 18:37
chilly2342

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

I think you should first present evidence that you're not a multi.

What evidence do you want/need?
07-04-2016, 18:39
pierniczek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

I think you should first present evidence that you're not a multi.

Just because he doesn't have over 5k posts doesn't mean he's a multie.
07-04-2016, 18:40
MyNameIsMatija

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierniczek

Just because he doesn't have over 5k posts doesn't mean he's a multie.

Ok... what's your point?
07-04-2016, 18:43
pierniczek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Ok... what's your point?

That Alaric doesn't necessarily have to be a multie.
07-04-2016, 18:45
MyNameIsMatija

Nobody ever said he was, right?
07-04-2016, 18:45
Alaric

Quote:

What fail-safes exist to prevent arbitrary deletion of anyone in this game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

None, zero, nadda.

3char.

My purpose is done here.
07-04-2016, 18:47
MyNameIsMatija

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

3char.

My purpose is done here.

Yeah I think you have annoyed the mod enough.
07-04-2016, 18:48
Alaric

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Yeah I think you have annoyed the mod enough.

I dont care.
07-04-2016, 18:48
MyNameIsMatija

I thought you were done?
07-04-2016, 18:51
Dazzanub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

3char.

My purpose is done here.

I'm not sure you really ever had a purpose here.
07-04-2016, 19:03
pierniczek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzanub

I'm not sure you really ever had a purpose here.

Quite obvious what your purpose is.
07-04-2016, 19:10
Pillz

Bishop is acting very guilty honestly. I've never seen him continue an exchange of this nature for so long. Almost like he is trying to play it down by letting it burn out, rather than just squashing all dissent, probably because he's already acted too overtly in helping his friends in Bishop's Little Ponies.

IMO the only way for Bishop to dispel these suspicions once and for all is to start handing out bans again.
07-04-2016, 19:15
MyNameIsMatija

He can start with you.
07-04-2016, 19:22
Swagger

This seems like a good place to start my tin foil hat business
07-04-2016, 19:37
Korp

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierniczek

Just because he doesn't have over 5k posts doesn't mean he's a multie.

Must be, unless he shows proof that he isn't one he is one!!
07-04-2016, 19:39
bante

All I can say to this thread is that bishop is a good person
Time to move on folks! And get over with this madness!!
07-04-2016, 19:42
markers

I'm over due for my agely ban...bishop sucks palems nipples

http://data.whicdn.com/images/46196178/large.gif
07-04-2016, 19:49
BB_Owa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz

Bishop is acting very guilty honestly. I've never seen him continue an exchange of this nature for so long. Almost like he is trying to play it down by letting it burn out, rather than just squashing all dissent, probably because he's already acted too overtly in helping his friends in Bishop's Little Ponies.

IMO the only way for Bishop to dispel these suspicions once and for all is to start handing out bans again.

What do you mean with his friends in "Bishop's Little Ponies"? They are called that way because Bishop renamed every prov in their kd after a very anonymous person (:D) reported their kd for having too many provs with similar and confusing names.
07-04-2016, 19:50
Pillz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_Owa

What do you mean with his friends in "Bishop's Little Ponies"? They are called that way because Bishop renamed every prov in their kd after a very anonymous person (:D) reported their kd for having too many provs with similar and confusing names.

We need evidence that Bishop isn't playing there
07-04-2016, 19:50
TommyB

I am starting to see a pattern...
07-04-2016, 20:05
bante

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

I am starting to see a pattern...

Is it diamond???
07-04-2016, 20:21
Bart of Sparta

Quote:

They are called that way because Bishop renamed every prov in their kd after a very anonymous person (:D) reported their kd for having too many provs with similar and confusing names.

That might've been me. I always report people who don't follow the naming. But I honestly don't remember if in this case it was me.
07-04-2016, 20:45
Palem

Man this thread has delivered since page 1 lol
07-04-2016, 21:48
wingding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

That might've been me. I always report people who don't follow the naming. But I honestly don't remember if in this case it was me.

Wasn't you, was a kd we warred
08-04-2016, 00:38
JusticeLeague

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingding

Wasn't you, was a kd we warred

Should be Camelots
08-04-2016, 00:40
JusticeLeague

Anyway, congrats to Steve and Krissy...welcome back to Jesters....Don't do the same mistake again.
I heard the so called Bishop's friend, the ponies had sent a report again. If u not going to change in accordance to what the public had advise, I guess u will faced a second crush moment before EOA.
08-04-2016, 00:59
Alaric

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticeLeague

Anyway, congrats to Steve and Krissy...welcome back to Jesters....Don't do the same mistake again.
I heard the so called Bishop's friend, the ponies had sent a report again. If u not going to change in accordance to what the public had advise, I guess u will faced a second crush moment before EOA.

What mistake? They broke no rules. Bishop admitted himself anyone can be deleted at any time for any reason.
08-04-2016, 01:04
JusticeLeague

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

What mistake? They broke no rules. Bishop admitted himself anyone can be deleted at any time for any reason.

U serious? Bishop said that?
08-04-2016, 01:54
Frugal Baggins

Quote:

any time for any reason

It's also in the rules.

https://i.imgflip.com/125el9.gif
08-04-2016, 02:07
Alaric

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticeLeague

U serious? Bishop said that?

post 323. so lets cut the crap here and accept the situation for what really happened.
08-04-2016, 02:09
Pillz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

What mistake? They broke no rules. Bishop admitted himself anyone can be deleted at any time for any reason.

Too bad that isn't what happened here.
Bishop's been very clear, they cheated and they got burnt.
08-04-2016, 02:19
Cry0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz

Too bad that isn't what happened here.
Bishop's been very clear, they cheated and they got burnt.

Bishop was very clear. He is in charge of utopia and can do whatever he wants with no recourse.

While using the user agent string as opposed to only the IP address is definitely a less error prone way to identify xloggers, Krissy and Stever managed to create a loophole for themselves in the logic since they have identical hardware. User agent strings are not unique to a device, you can go to https://panopticlick.eff.org/ and see for yourself how unique yours is -- my macbook running safari is a 1/65 chance a random person has the same string.

The utopia rules state: "We advise players that wish to play with a housemate etc to use separate computers if possible, or to use a separate user account at the very least. Behaviour that may be legitimate, such as logging in after your housemate, is identical to the behaviour of someone that may be cheating. As such, you should avoid any such actions as deletions as a result of this behaviour will not be reversed. The game will take care of interactions ingame as it automatically blocks same IP interactions - it is up to the players to ensure the security and integrity of their account on their end."

They were not using the same computer, they were using their own unique devices that happen to be the same make model and browser version. It is clear now that is an issue just like using the same computer, but there was no way to know that before hand.

That is why the deletions were ridiculous and the refusal to even consider they weren't actually cheating is shameful.

It is also incredibly petty that Gurch's KD had to resort to trying to get provinces deleted to get some sort of sense of accomplishment. Congratulations, you guys win the troll crown this age.
08-04-2016, 02:30
Alaric

"Bishop was very clear. He is in charge of utopia and can do whatever he wants with no recourse."

This.
08-04-2016, 02:31
zsivhawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

And I guess in your Western world anyone can dispute a court order and claiming those convicted are innocent? While insulting the judge and demanding proof for evyone too see?

In the civilized world we have an appeals system where a case can be heard by new judge who will review the facts and make a decision. Many times it is upholding the lower court's decision, but at least there is another person involved. In Utopia, the same guy who deals the initial punishment handles all appeals and you can never go past that level. I think they still do it that way in North Korea as well.
08-04-2016, 02:38
Pillz

Quote:

Originally Posted by zsivhawk

In the civilized world we have an appeals system where a case can be heard by new judge who will review the facts and make a decision. Many times it is upholding the lower court's decision, but at least there is another person involved. In Utopia, the same guy who deals the initial punishment handles all appeals and you can never go past that level. I think they still do it that way in North Korea as well.

This is how Utopia has worked forever, except for a brief period in 2008-2009.

It's how most forums, websites, and games work, actually. While I frequently advocate for total freedom of speech and expression across all sectors of the internet, even I can't fault this administrative system so long it is implemented with consistency and impartiality, which is exactly how I've observed it done here.

That you bunch of second rate losers have decided to up the burden of proof and slander the administrator is not his problem, nor the game owners problem.
08-04-2016, 02:39
wingding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cry0

Bishop was very clear. He is in charge of utopia and can do whatever he wants with no recourse.

While using the user agent string as opposed to only the IP address is definitely a less error prone way to identify xloggers, Krissy and Stever managed to create a loophole for themselves in the logic since they have identical hardware. User agent strings are not unique to a device, you can go to https://panopticlick.eff.org/ and see for yourself how unique yours is -- my macbook running safari is a 1/65 chance a random person has the same string.

The utopia rules state: "We advise players that wish to play with a housemate etc to use separate computers if possible, or to use a separate user account at the very least. Behaviour that may be legitimate, such as logging in after your housemate, is identical to the behaviour of someone that may be cheating. As such, you should avoid any such actions as deletions as a result of this behaviour will not be reversed. The game will take care of interactions ingame as it automatically blocks same IP interactions - it is up to the players to ensure the security and integrity of their account on their end."

They were not using the same computer, they were using their own unique devices that happen to be the same make model and browser version. It is clear now that is an issue just like using the same computer, but there was no way to know that before hand.

That is why the deletions were ridiculous and the refusal to even consider they weren't actually cheating is shameful.

It is also incredibly petty that Gurch's KD had to resort to trying to get provinces deleted to get some sort of sense of accomplishment. Congratulations, you guys win the troll crown this age.

First crown, w00t

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