-wSk- vs CR

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Originally Posted by flogger

Well sometimes in war I donk some big picture/ops coordination. Dorje can do that. I'll just chain ppl to 50a

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so you wanna replace proteus?

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Here Meep I will offer you an olive branch, acknowledge the following things and I will leave you alone and maybe go easy on you.

1. CR is not the best as you think you are. In fact you are probably 3rd or 4th best.
2. Your council members are not top players / leaders. Most of them are actually third string equivalents who were never able to lead a "top" kd until the game fell apart.
3. CR is not good at warring top kds and does not have such a track record. CR knows how to whore in vacuum and aims to be way bigger / more pumped then opponent to try to win through size. When CR goes against a top kingdom, they either lose or just don't crown.
4. CR are greedy harlots and ask kingdoms for 15-25% of their land in tax which is u justifiable when rest of the server would take 10% or less.

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1. I don't pretend we're the best, we've been swapping players in and out all age and have almost entirely different active leadership this age after we burned old man wuzi out last age and zauper went off on rich man vacation this age.
2. I consider most of the people in our council to be top tier players, worth noting that half of our council isn't playing this age :p
3/4. I can think of at least 2, probably 3 ages where Rage should have crowned and didn't in large part because of the way you tried to bully people into fighting you or giving you acres.

Also I'll note one last time though since people seem to keep missing it. Stop conflating me with CR. I'm not CR, CR isn't me. I represent Meep.
I joined here three ages ago because zauper said he had room, and I felt like playing in a whoring KD for a while when I didn't have time to be active enough to run wars for ghettos.

But one thing I'm not is a puppet for any KD.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Can I replace the Bin Bin then? They call me The Babysitter.

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Well I think just about anyone can replace bin bin. You just have to be likable.

Wait, almost no one can replace Bin Bin

and active. you forgot active

and stop cheapshotting Maclean. he is pro. only hit into war once this age

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Originally Posted by Binar

and active. you forgot active

and stop cheapshotting Maclean. he is pro. only hit into war once this age

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Might explain why BB struggled ever since Feyr got a job

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Originally Posted by Lennox

Cheap shot at maclean!

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actually at mordor -- i remember he lost a war he had won by doing that one age.

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Originally Posted by Meep

Also I'll note one last time though since people seem to keep missing it. Stop conflating me with CR. I'm not CR, CR isn't me. I represent Meep.
I joined here three ages ago because zauper said he had room, and I felt like playing in a whoring KD for a while when I didn't have time to be active enough to run wars for ghettos.

But one thing I'm not is a puppet for any KD.

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This is so true haha. Wanted to say that myself but I wouldn't speak in your name like that. What is Meep even doing in CR in the first place? Seems so strange to me :P

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

This is so true haha. Wanted to say that myself but I wouldn't speak in your name like that. What is Meep even doing in CR in the first place? Seems so strange to me :P

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A meep at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force.

How about Binar join us instead. I'll rename BB to BinarBinar too, maybe this is the only way to force oldman feyr and protector out of their hermit cave.

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Originally Posted by astron

How about Binar join us instead. I'll rename BB to BinarBinar too, maybe this is the only way to force oldman feyr and protector out of their hermit cave.

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y not just call it BinBin

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Originally Posted by Binar

y not just call it BinBin

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BinBin is too cute. Doesn't sound dirty enough to piss people off :P

To be fair in this CR/Emeriti pissfest, I took out CR for emeriti their first age back in an OoP war when I had no idea emeriti was even back while making our setup.

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Originally Posted by flogger

To be fair in this CR/Emeriti pissfest, I took out CR for emeriti their first age back in an OoP war when I had no idea emeriti was even back while making our setup.

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Have emeriti and CR ever actually fought?

Aw I wanna experience The Proteus. Life's so unfair sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Meep

Have emeriti and CR ever actually fought?

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Not even sure, and other than you and proteus prolly don't have any beef either, y'all cfd all age this age

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Originally Posted by flogger

Not even sure, and other than you and proteus prolly don't have any beef either, y'all cfd all age this age

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I wasn't even aware I had beef with Proteus :(

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Originally Posted by flogger

To be fair in this CR/Emeriti pissfest, I took out CR for emeriti their first age back in an OoP war when I had no idea emeriti was even back while making our setup.

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Yoyo flogster, I'm too lazy to quote4truth on phone but you told me on WA you wanted to wave CR first that age because you were afraid of how badly we would farm them and win the age less than a week from OOP. You also made a forum post about it.

Bonus season coming up soon baby! But not for #paykuhan l, I'm gonna be hitting the casinos soon. The last cash game I was at, people were afraid of me because I kept on calling them down with their bull**** bluff action, one donk got so mad that he went all in on me with rags with I held AA/KK and jacks tripple up dipset

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Originally Posted by Zauper

Nothing is ever unwinnable -- there's always a way to throw any advantage. e.g. specs riding leets.

That doesn't change the simple fact that the way wsk played hostile was a serious mistake, and made it much harder for them to have a shot in war, because it setup the ultimate strategy that caused CR to win. Sure, CR made a lot of mistakes, but the basic reality of 12 safe provinces with 50k+ popspace available that can't be effectively removed makes losing over the long term real hard -- and that was created by the hostile.


There's no reason to be silly -- when a sizable chunk of council were council in the best kingdom in the history of uto, saying that they're third string is absurd.

I want to say we're really no worse than 50-50 vs any other kingdom over the life of CR, but I also don't penalize us for outplaying kingdoms and winning in hostile.

(Emeriti - no wars; we won once in hostile, they taxed us once from like 30-40% land adv)
(BB - 0-2; we won once in hostile, they taxed once from 30-40% land adv, we taxed 3-4x from smaller advs; there was also the whole munk incident)
(Pyro - idk, many-many incl a win and a loss vs the flogger incarnation of pyro)
(Simians - 1-0)
(Pandas - 1-0)
(Pew - 1-0)
(AMA - 1-0? 1-1 if you include the Havoc war)
(Sleepy - 2-0)

I dunno, who am I missing? FS? No wars. Div? No wars. Pretty much won all of the wars we 'should' have won (minus the havoc war, seriously **** brado for that), lost most (but not all) the wars we 'should' have lost. Lost the coinflip vs BB and won it vs Pyro largely. Most wars are won before CFdrop.

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Correct me if I am wrong but CR hasn't really won any crowns until after Abs disbanded and other good kds retired. Your wins came in a very uncompetitive era of the game. If I remember correctly people used to call you guys "Crownless CR" for a while cause you had mouths like Godly in your kd talking smack but without ever having won as a team before.

Being council in a kd is not the same as being the main leader of a kd. Heck I used to be in council in top kds back when all I could do was play a good province and understand mechanics but doesn't mean I was a top leader. Who in your council was actually the monarch of a successful top kd the way flogger was of his kds or jdorje of his?

Also what is the best kd in the history of utopia? That is rather a contested term but would like to hear which kd you are referencing?

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Correct me if I am wrong but CR hasn't really won any crowns until after Abs disbanded and other good kds retired. Your wine came in a very uncompetitive era of the game.

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CR didn't exist until the abs disband, so it would have been awfully hard to win crowns prior to it. By that logic, of course, the Emeriti crowns are worth even less. Certainly less than CRs first, with BB (age before they won b2b)/AMA/etc.

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Being council in a kd is not the same as being the main leader of a kd. Heck I used to be in council in top kds back when all I could do was play a good province and understand mechanics but doesn't mean I was a top leader. Who in your council was actually the monarch of a successful top kd the way flogger was of his kds or jdorje of his?

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Me. Also a difference between being a meaningful person in council and being a nub in council :). Oh right, CP makes a good point -- elit.

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Also what is the best kd in the history of utopia? That is rather a contested term but would like to hear which kd you are referencing?

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Pansies.

Correct me if im wrong but Proteus never manage to build anything successfull on his own has he? All he ever done was jump into already successfull kingdoms..

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Originally Posted by Korp

Correct me if im wrong but Proteus never manage to build anything successfull on his own has he? All he ever done was jump into already successfull kingdoms..

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but he is really good at that though! :)

This day and age there's usually high turn over rates for players in kingdoms these days, some guys can't play in different busy times for work like summer or something.

The first 2 ages I played in CR we had a big number of AMA people playing there, I think that kingdom was the strongest well rounded whoring and warring kingdom with the guys we had, Dirty, Elit, Rens,Cello and a couple others. Problem was we were always in too good of a position on everybody and nobody wanted to war. :( I forget but Godly bragged about how many crowns we a had total between us.

CR is ok and there isn't a huge all star list for the whole roster but like I say rosters change lots these days.

Don't forget The Mango and no mention of octo :( ?
Maybe they joined afterwards though, I don't know.

Oh and btw that CR would spank Emereti :) and Mango , Octo , etc big happy mix. Was one of the last great kingdoms.

Octobrev called it the Dream Boat.

Txs for a good fight CR. I'll skip all the drama and say that it would take at least a week more for a clear winner and it was still 50-50 chances. I like that CR says they were oping our dwarfes but not a word about them having 2 provinces that were still slightly in NW to do it and that in 2-3 days these could be nowhere near the offense they still had. They had peasants fire balled on all but 4-5 smaller core provs and these would come down in peasants within 30 hours max as well. even if they were to pull it out eventually, they'd lose an additional at least 10 k acres before managing to do it. Let's just say some are looking at the overall picture more than just "winning" a war. Even if we pressed the surender button we finished bigger than them, even if they took an almost 14k land war win bonus. And they started 8k land larger than us in this conflict.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

I think you're missing the point. There are logs is CR talking massive **** about how they're going to farm WSK in this conflict when in fact, they've lost land and ended smaller than WSK inspite of collecting WW bonus CR was bigger prior to war and gained over 10K from WSK in conflict in addition to CR having superior science and a massive GC advantage. I get you are ex-CR but give credit for what, taking an opportunity to farm someone and instead losing acres in the conflict and failing to crown? What is this, the special olympics?

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I wont bite, Ill just put your stupidity down for not actually reading what I said. I would have said something very similar if your kingdom was in a similar war situation. But feel free to continue down the path of stupidity at your own leisure, I'm getting off at this station.

Was I the only one that actually thought WSK could win? Faeries just blow as a core.

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Originally Posted by coss

Txs for a good fight CR. I'll skip all the drama and say that it would take at least a week more for a clear winner and it was still 50-50 chances. I like that CR says they were oping our dwarfes but not a word about them having 2 provinces that were still slightly in NW to do it and that in 2-3 days these could be nowhere near the offense they still had. They had peasants fire balled on all but 4-5 smaller core provs and these would come down in peasants within 30 hours max as well. even if they were to pull it out eventually, they'd lose an additional at least 10 k acres before managing to do it. Let's just say some are looking at the overall picture more than just "winning" a war. Even if we pressed the surender button we finished bigger than them, even if they took an almost 14k land war win bonus. And they started 8k land larger than us in this conflict.

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Coss. Which dwarf of yours was gaining peasants or military? We had constant MS coverage on all 4 dwarves, and fireballed their peasants down regularly.

Hello kitty was being hit down until you fed it 30k soldiers worth of dspecs from your faery's, apparently so that it could sit army in and eat MS until breakable again.

Additionally, most of the top half of our kingdom was gaining offense, meanwhile all four of your cows were losing defense. Your 20k was a couple of hours away from being hit when you withdraw.

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Our total # of peasants at no point stopped rising, we were up to 730k when you withdrew, and we were gaining peasants on 14 provinces.

Your peasants were at 247k, and we were in the middle of repeat massacring your third faery rogue into not being able to hold peasants any more. Your mystic who had already been neutered of its ability to cast MS on anybody was next.

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You fought a very good war, and vastly exceeded our expectations, but to claim that the war was still 50/50 when you withdrew is just not supported by the facts.

Higher up in acres mean they winning.

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Originally Posted by flogger

To be fair in this CR/Emeriti pissfest, I took out CR for emeriti their first age back in an OoP war when I had no idea emeriti was even back while making our setup.

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For what it's worth i also had no idea we were back. I just woke up one day and binar was in our council channel and asked for an oop build.

** Kingdom news report **
For the time from July 2 of YR6 till July 13 of YR7 - 180 hours
[ http://home-world.org/utopia/formatter/ - Seraphim online formatter ]

** Summary **
Total attacks made: 875 (109,733 acres)
-- Traditional march: 702 (104,628 acres)
-- Ambush: 41 (3,350 acres)
-- Conquest: 12 (1,755 acres)
-- Raze: 6 (0 acres)
-- Massacre: 20 (78,515 population)
-- Failed: 94 (10.7% failure)
-- Uniques: 236
Total attacks suffered: 1,140 (91,617 acres)
-- Traditional march: 833 (77,668 acres)
-- Ambush: 109 (13,949 acres)
-- Raze: 42 (0 acres)
-- Massacre: 59 (358,199 population)
-- Failed: 97 (8.5% failure)
-- Uniques: 327

** The kingdom of wsk **
Total land exchanged: +18,116 (875/1140)
+19,249 An unknown province (30/0)
+4,081 Good Santa is drunk (13/8)
+2,643 Bad Santa is good (18/36)
+1,487 Bad santa godthisthemesuqs (53/38)
+1,082 Bad Santa is not here (26/40)
+988 Bad Santa is Orc (27/33)
+705 Bad Santa hates this theme (62/56)
+642 Good Santa is Zexy (66/95)
+341 Bad Santa Hates Julskinka (58/61)
+311 Good Santa grabz the Crown (29/24)
+40 Bad Santa is Charming (4/5)
+39 Bad Santa Is Here (4/0)
+33 Good Santa Drinks Rakia (4/0)
- Bad Santa is high (0/20)
- bad santa builds the wall (0/16)
-44 GoodSantaLikesToHoHoHo (69/85)
-116 HitTheKingforBadSantaTheme (45/47)
-212 Bad Santa is blazed (49/42)
-470 Good Santa aint no Hobbit (71/172)
-616 Good Santa whear dress (48/84)
-793 Bad Santa is Good Santa (1/17)
-821 Good santa is smellz (68/63)
-916 Bad Santa Curses Monarch (63/77)
-1,417 Good SANTA are Cats (63/95)
-8,120 Bad Santa is Hello Kitty (4/26)


** The kingdom of CR **
Total land exchanged: -18,116 (1140/875)
+10,974 An unknown province (21/0)
+3,036 Salvelinus (48/0)
+2,183 Amaranth (47/0)
+2,121 Juandissimo Magnifico (56/0)
+1,862 Ford (45/1)
+1,792 Body (41/0)
+1,784 Thomas the choochoo (37/0)
+1,654 because you told me to (39/0)
+1,650 Novorossiya (36/0)
+1,283 Shake it off (35/0)
+1,197 zanuta perversa (37/1)
+529 Rain of brimstone and fire (23/0)
+526 dickbutt (53/20)
+521 Bubble Wrap Foil (28/1)
-1,726 Goo (65/68)
-2,001 Harlequin (64/78)
-2,143 The Sugar Plum Faery (61/62)
-2,218 lok tar ogar (59/88)
-2,226 Snapshot rhymes with Grug (60/155)
-2,352 fsckface von clownstick (41/39)
-2,360 Pure Blood (64/85)
-2,852 Raze that faery heretic x2 (58/81)
-3,111 Chili con carnival (54/72)
-3,953 Freeze all motor functions (30/14)
-11,192 I miss my baby (22/25)
-13,094 Derple (16/85)

So WSK started way lower in land (-10k) and nw (-7mil.), less gold, stomped CR's cows and surrendered with more land even though CR took land bonus. This means wsk outplayed CR by miles. That's it, nothing more to say. Zauper and Meep can talk about peasants and MS cover but noone of them admitted they actually got outplayed.
CR started from a superb position, the war was played by their rules, the hostility was ran by their decisions, still, they got outplayed. Simple as that. The war win - well, congrats CR, you got yourself a warwin, you did good, but there was a better side and you should admit it.
If both sides started in simillar conditions, wsk would annihilate CR, sorry zauper, sorry meep.
As I know emeriti and coss have very good relationship, I'm curious what is next... Emeriti is obviously tired of watching and have the upper hand vs CR and wsk but who will Binar choose?

Zauper, if you ar going to take part of the podcasts, at least be objective. I know you are not a noob.

Wsk might have pushed the surrender button but I see them as the winners of this war. B2b coming up?

BTW can someone tell me the total land size of both KDs and top 5 provs in both? How far oor is cr core to the orcs in wsk?

I'm still in Oz and busy snuggling koalas and drinking Bundaberg, thus on sitting :(

It seems to be that wsk did the strategical sound choice to WD before they started to bleed acres back.

wsk
Bad Santa is good (S) Dwarf 25,788a 3,127,844gc 121gc Lord 0
Bad Santa is not here Dwarf 21,390a 3,113,059gc 145gc Lord 0
Good Santa is drunk (M) Dwarf 18,670a 2,684,227gc 143gc King 28
Bad Santa is Hello Kitty Dwarf 8,686a 1,341,690gc 154gc Peasant 719

--------------------------
CR
Freeze all motor functions Faery 9,839a 1,814,689gc 184gc Knight 1181
Derple (S) Faery 9,801a 2,060,869gc 210gc Knight 885
Body Faery 8,790a 1,626,299gc 185gc Viscountess 1055
I miss my baby Faery 8,517a 1,667,118gc 195gc Knight 1022

-------------------------- Core:
wsk
Bad Santa is Orc Orc 3,999a 514,249gc 128gc Baron 0
Bad santa godthisthemesuqs Orc 3,681a 504,896gc 137gc Noble Lady 0
Bad Santa is blazed Orc 3,434a 459,468gc 133gc Lord 0
Good Santa grabz the Crown Orc 3,290a 469,753gc 142gc Lord 0
Bad Santa is Good Santa Faery 3,238a 652,177gc 201gc Viscount 0
HitTheKingforBadSantaTheme Orc 3,170a 485,691gc 153gc Baron 0
Bad Santa hates this theme Orc 3,084a 447,631gc 145gc Noble Lady 0
Good Santa is Zexy Orc 2,870a 385,730gc 134gc Lord 0

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CR:
Juandissimo Magnifico Faery 8,005a 1,488,349gc 185gc Viscount 914
Salvelinus Faery 8,000a 1,450,568gc 181gc Baron 849
Bubble Wrap Foil Faery 7,253a 1,503,337gc 207gc Baron 851
Rain of brimstone and fire Faery 7,222a 1,554,614gc 215gc Baron 867
Amaranth Faery 7,186a 1,252,611gc 174gc Lord 458
Thomas the choochoo (M) Faery 6,858a 1,416,534gc 206gc King 677
Ford Faery 6,582a 1,465,660gc 222gc Viscount 719
Novorossiya Faery 6,294a 1,412,268gc 224gc Viscount 616
because you told me to Faery 6,156a 1,365,134gc 221gc Baroness 541
zanuta perversa Faery 5,862a 1,439,488gc 245gc Viscount 608
Shake it off Faery 5,766a 1,248,658gc 216gc Viscountess 363

CR was smart to stay in and WSK was smart to withdraw. Both gained acres. Seems like a draw to me.

who are these ghettos?

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Bonus season coming up soon baby! But not for #paykuhan l, I'm gonna be hitting the casinos soon. The last cash game I was at, people were afraid of me because I kept on calling them down with their bull**** bluff action, one donk got so mad that he went all in on me with rags with I held AA/KK and jacks tripple up dipset

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So sweet! Love it :D

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

CR was smart to stay in and WSK was smart to withdraw. Both gained acres. Seems like a draw to me.

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Clear FW.