Land lost when hit

I'd like to suggest that when hit for land the acres you lose come equally from the land you have currently built and the land you have in progress.

Example i have 1000 acres built & 1000 acres building

I am hit for for 1500 acres i end with

250 acres built & 250 acres building.

(or say 1500 built 500 building down to 500 u end with 375 built 125 building)


Reason: Its very strange to be chained from 2000 acres and end with 40 build acres and 650+ incoming acres, kinda get screwed when you lose all your farms/guilds till your land comes in in 12 hours.

This was changed intentionally when they removed raze killing to make it easyier to disable people. Wars already last long enough.

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Originally Posted by goodz

This was changed intentionally when they removed raze killing to make it easyier to disable people. Wars already last long enough.

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If i remember correctly it was changed to take both baron land and regular land.. i wasnt aware they they changed the mix of what was being taken. ie something other than to prioritize not just baren land first. My thing is right now normal hits always take "some" of your building land, but its not taking land as a percentage of what u have.

Ie if i have 100 acres farms, 500 acres GS, 400 Acres Building (lets say TG). If i'm chained i can very much end, 50 GS, 350 Building (TG). At a minimum it should pull from what i have built in an equal percentage.

Take a look at http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Guilds-war-bug
Its an issue with how the buildings are prioritized when you have land being built. In the case of that thread Guilds were lost at a much higher percentage, normally one loses stuff like ALL their farm, or ALL their Dungeons.

For me the example was along the lines of

START Build:
50 farms 30 incoming
200 GS 100 incoming
100 TG 200 incoming

MID chain-
1 farms 20 incoming
10 GS 90 incming
3 TG 190 incoming

Final chain
0 farm 15 incoming
0 GS 80 incoming
0 TG 180 incoming

There is no easy way to predict the land i'l have mid-post chain when i have a large portion of my land building, and im left with a mix MUCH different from what i tried to build. Kind of strange that i have all land "Building" as i have to 100% rely on my kd for aid.

I mean say i grew from 2000->3000 acres via 2 uniques. I build that land and then get trad marched to 900 acres, it makes no sens that i'd have 900 acres of buildings "building" and be 100% unbuilt.

That thread is wrong. You can tell because i said it was, like so.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Guilds aren't special. They stay/go the same as any other building.

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I believe land is taken as a % of the gain from built and barren and if not enough there then from in progress.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

That thread is wrong. You can tell because i said it was, like so.

I believe land is taken as a % of the gain from built and barren and if not enough there then from in progress.

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That thread is wrong because he was missing what is being done, My "suggestion" gets to the heart of that. Ie at a minimum include the in progress % when you decide what land to take. right now the best i can tell is it only looks at built+barren. As a better choice to actually take from in progress as well as built.


2500 acres=>500 acres as lose 20% of everything

500 farms +1000 building=> 100 farms 200 building
1000 TG+ zero building=> 200 TG

I see no reason not to do this, as it help NEW players by not screwing over their build with all unbuilt acres. (and thus REQUIRING kd aid for many hours)


EDIT
At a MINIMUM it shouldn't take JUST from built acres first, ie

START:100 farms,200 in progress guilds
HIT: 100 acres
END: 200 in progress guilds

No, we don't want to take from in progress. This behaviour is deliberate and addresses more issues than changing it will address.

I can see where Persain's coming from on this one. I think I'd rather have say 5% farms and 5% in progress than 0% farms and 10% in progress.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

No, we don't want to take from in progress. This behaviour is deliberate and addresses more issues than changing it will address.

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i'd been trying to track exactly how acres left and the last time i got chained finally let me see why. (and tells me to never run dungeons in war). It is VERY anti new play friendly. I'm just curious though what issue does taking ALL built land before in progress address? because the current systems required about 3-4 chains+1 DEEP chain to actually calculate the exact process. Would be nice to have the suggestions forum actually be of use if i can suggest an alternative way to deal with that issue and address the non-standard acre loss :P

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Originally Posted by lastunicorn

I can see where Persain's coming from on this one. I think I'd rather have say 5% farms and 5% in progress than 0% farms and 10% in progress.

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Or have what happened me me last chain 0% unbuild 100% in progress (mostly GS). I wasnt sure how it'd work but i had something like 20% farms (aid) and figured when chained it'd put me at a sustainable level. So i took and build the 600 acre grab i just got and placed it most of it into GS. Well low and behold i get chained to under 300 acres and end up with 0 built land and zero farms. (i would of done better not building knowing that the chain was coming which is just dumb)...Then, I had to wait for my land grab to come in (7 hours), and 16 hours before i could build ANY farms. Thats 23 hours with ZERO farms. I 100% have to get aid.

Its useable but its not intuitive and leads to threads like the one i linked to above (about guilds) and gives new players a big disadvantage as they dont know how to be chained. One good thing about being chained so hard i guess is i see exactly what happens when chained beyond currently in progress acres.

The current method is buggy. I don't know the exact bug, but it was seen earlier when one kingdom that had numerous acres in progress was hit and lost fewer acres than were actually taken.

I have seen a previous example of the bad mechanics, in a war of quad-tapping orcs where all acres were permanently in progress and because barren acres were taken before in-progress acres, it meant only your barren acres were ever taken (free build and +credits were rendered completely useless).

And the bug is commonly seen, where if you only have a few of a certain building and get chained, you will invariably lose every single one of that building.

Acres should be taken equally from all available types. If you lose x% of your acres it should take x% of your barren, x% of your built dungeons, and x% of your dungeons in progress. Round (down?) and take the extra left over from a random building type. There's no need for bugs or inconsistencies here; these mechanics are quite clearly the best ones and not very hard to implement.

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Originally Posted by jdorje

The current method is buggy.

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thanks jdorje, that is exactly what i was trying to say...and there isn't a "bug" i finally got how it takes land but it makes no sense. Thus the need for something better

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Originally Posted by jdorje

The current method is buggy. I don't know the exact bug, but it was seen earlier when one kingdom that had numerous acres in progress was hit and lost fewer acres than were actually taken.

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Legacy bug from mehul - if you had a hit of X acres and not enough land left in built or barren to allocate to it the game then takes from in progress. Mehuls code iterated a limited number of times to take the land from each schedule meaning that under certain cases a prov would not lose all the land they should have. This bug existed for years it appears, but due to the criteria needed to fulfil it I guess we didn't see it occurring often enough. Anyway, we fixed this recently.

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Originally Posted by jdorje

And the bug is commonly seen, where if you only have a few of a certain building and get chained, you will invariably lose every single one of that building.

Acres should be taken equally from all available types. If you lose x% of your acres it should take x% of your barren, x% of your built dungeons, and x% of your dungeons in progress. Round (down?) and take the extra left over from a random building type. There's no need for bugs or inconsistencies here; these mechanics are quite clearly the best ones and not very hard to implement.

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The bug you refer to isn't a bug, its how the allocation of a % gain works in conjunction with rounding. We do not want to take from in progress on the initial allocation because you would remove a persons ability to manipulate their build.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

The bug you refer to isn't a bug, its how the allocation of a % gain works in conjunction with rounding. We do not want to take from in progress on the initial allocation because you would remove a persons ability to manipulate their build.

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um if i have 5% gs and build 10% more gs i now have 15 % of my land in gs. if i lose 10% land i'd STILL have 15% GS.

total 1000 acres,
100 GS, 100 in progress, if im hit for 20% of my land and lose 20 GS and 20 in progress than i was still able to manipluate my build. what am i missing?

Arson

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Arson

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what about it, how it would work? or what effect it would have. Because i cant see arson being significantly effected.

Greater/ normal Arson causes you to not be able to manipulate your build, that's what you were missing - nados would similarly be affected. We do not want land taken from in progress unless its because there is nowhere else to take it from. That is the current behaviour and we don't intend on changing it. You can, ofc, argue as to why you would like it changed but be aware that its just not something we are interested in changing right now.