End Honor WD

This will get a lot of flaming, cause there's a lot of lame people that play this game that love to employ this tactic. So insta-flamers should just be ignored right now, because you're clearly lamers that like to abuse the system.

Now, with that disclaimer out of the way. I have an issue with how war's end in utopia. You can clearly dominate a kd throughout, be ahead in honor, make a wave, and then 2 hours later the enemy kd does a max gains wave and withdraws.... on top with honor.

This is absurd. If you're winning, there should be no chance of the enemy kd doing this.

So here's what I propose:
All attacks and ops and spells 5 ticks prior to withdrawing has honor returned to the prov. Why 5? So it leaves enough of a window for more armies to do what they need to do. And if you can time it right so that you can make an honor wave 5+ ticks before and still come away with it, then you deserve it.

-People crying response number 1: It's a tactic we use, we wait till the last minute to get honor... wwwaaaahhhh... I call BS. If you're really a strong honor kd then you should be focused on grabbing honor throughout the war, not in the last few hours before you tuck tail and run.

-People crying response number 2: This is the way it's always been, why change what works? Because.... it doesn't work. It's imbalanced and unfair and stupid. You've lost, and are taking something away from the deserving winners.

Why not extend the period where hits are prohibited, giving the victorious kingdom more time to counter wave?

I don't like the current system either. Right now, honor rewards give a large amount of honor to winning kingdoms, but we've been lucky to fight kingdoms that aren't organized enough to make full waves before withdrawal.

Would be better if honor were reworked from the ground up, but people have their honor fetishes...

They cannot take your honor. Your honor warwin will more than cover it.

I am in a war right now. My median prov is 2k honor. I will get 200 honor. I just got hit for 600 honor 4 hours before mintime. Explain to me how that covers it.

YOU =/ your kingdom.

Discuss

I'm sorry but last I checked utopia wasn't socialist based where the wealth is shared. Also, the 10% honor at the end of the war isn't there to level you out due to honor waves, it's to give you honor for winning. Your argument is false.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

They cannot take your honor. Your honor warwin will more than cover it.

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If they suicide on honor-rich provinces and do op galore, I'm not so sure.

The OP has a point.

If your expecting them to do a wave right before they surrender or withdraw.Hold your armies and do the same before they can.That sword has 2 sides.

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Originally Posted by Magn

If they suicide on honor-rich provinces and do op galore, I'm not so sure.

The OP has a point.

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If you care about honor, can't you do respond in kind and still win?

If you win a war decisively you will be up in honor even if they max gain it at the end
If you have a close war and they max gain they might be up but you gain 10% and they lose 10%. As a KD you will be up. As an individual it is possible you will be down honor but individual honor is very fickle. They can also hit a guy with 15 hours left and take all his honor...

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Originally Posted by macleod

I am in a war right now. My median prov is 2k honor. I will get 200 honor. I just got hit for 600 honor 4 hours before mintime. Explain to me how that covers it.

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What makes you think you'll get 200? Honor is not a function of land.

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Originally Posted by Ovenmitt

YOU =/ your kingdom.

Discuss

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Ovenmitt is correct.

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Originally Posted by Magn

If they suicide on honor-rich provinces and do op galore, I'm not so sure.

The OP has a point.

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No, i just told you its impossible. You get honor based partially on what they have. They take more, you get more.

Withdrawing KD does not lose honor anymore.

Again this brings me back to my point though, the 10% honor you get isn't supposed to be there so that you get your honor back after they took it away in the last few minutes... It's to give you an honor advantage. The system is broken. You can argue it all you want Bishop, but you're wrong. This is not what the system was intended to do.

Its ok, I have no intention of arguing.

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Originally Posted by macleod

Again this brings me back to my point though, the 10% honor you get isn't supposed to be there so that you get your honor back after they took it away in the last few minutes... It's to give you an honor advantage. The system is broken. You can argue it all you want Bishop, but you're wrong. This is not what the system was intended to do.

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Then what is the system intended to do?
Come up with a fully detailed plan on how honor should work in general, what should be the purpose behind it, when should someone has high honor and why, and how it should work in war.

pffft that's not the system I'm talking about, I'm talking about the honor given to you after a war. It's intended to give you honor, not level you out because the last kd took all your honor 2 hours before they withdrew

It is not intended to give you honor.

so you're saying the sole purpose of the 10% honor upon war win is there to counter people max gaining for honor and then withdrawing?

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Originally Posted by macleod

so you're saying the sole purpose of the 10% honor upon war win is there to counter people max gaining for honor and then withdrawing?

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You are also implying that the winning kingdom should get the lion's share of the honor by default. While that is what usually happens, it is in no way the written rule or guideline for the game.

A kingdom simply does not lose enough honor in a single max gain wave at eow to make them not overall gaining honor. I assume your complaining about an individual province losing honor. Individual honor should not be looked at...

Unlike land, you typically do not lose honor when your enemy withdraws. The ability to target high-honor provinces and the instant return of honor means that if they do a max-gains wave 3 ticks before withdrawing, you have ample opportunity to recover all that honor.

However, I do feel that the withdraw length should be increased by one hour.

Also, to say "losing honor doesn't matter because your war win honor covers it" implies a wrong outlook on the game. Currently you are giving kingdoms a choice of land or honor. This choice should be removed (5% land from explore pools and 10% honor should be given for a win). But Bishop - it's disturbing that you assume only honor comes from a win; it's another sign of how the admins and developers have marginalized top play and made the entire game world worse as a result.

No, its a sign of how the war win bonus works - the more honor they have the more you get from them.

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Originally Posted by Ovenmitt

You are also implying that the winning kingdom should get the lion's share of the honor by default. While that is what usually happens, it is in no way the written rule or guideline for the game.

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And I'm saying that it should be that way. That's why this is in the "Suggestions" thread. Do you not know what a "Suggestion" is?

Last time around I barely gained 100 honor on winning the war; this to me seemed fairly low.

Its based on the honor you both already have, if you have low honor you get a low reward.

Couple of players saying that we should increase the non-hostility time to surrender.
Monarchs of ghettos have a hard enough time getting their kingdom to settle down for 2 hours, 3-5 hours would not help these kingdoms at all.

You receive more than honour when a war win, a war win is not only for honour dude.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

No, its a sign of how the war win bonus works - the more honor they have the more you get from them.

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Except isn't honor generated based on your honor same way land generated is based on your land?

No, its based on a combination of both kds resources

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Originally Posted by Bishop

No, its based on a combination of both kds resources

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Withdrawal
Once the minimum time limit is reached, either kingdom can withdraw from war.
War will end automatically if opponents networth to 50% of others. This will only occur after a minimum of 7 days (1 Utopian year).
After withdrawing, the losing kingdom's total honor is reduced by 10%. This lost honor is evenly distributed between the winning kingdom's provinces. Withdrawals can only occur if the withdrawing kingdom has not committed any attacks within the past two Utopian Days. Withdrawing rewards the opposing kingdom with a war win that will show on their kingdom page.

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above is from guide. I am fairly certain you no longer lose honor for WDing? You certainly don't seem to lose 10% It would make more sense if the 10% honor/land came from the losing KD so you would get as much for farming as basing it on your own resources makes a farm doubly valuable.

(I don't mean necessarily that they lost it, certainly they shouldn't lose land. But it would make sense if you gained a bonus equivlant to 10% of their land/honor) I also think these bonuses should be looked at but meh :D

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Originally Posted by goodz

I am fairly certain you no longer lose honor for WDing? You certainly don't seem to lose 10% It would make more sense if the 10% honor/land came from the losing KD so you would get as much for farming as basing it on your own resources makes a farm doubly valuable.

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The guide didnt get updated to the current age where

"Winning a war will not grant any honor taken from your opponents honor pool. Monarchs will instead be able to set a kingdom reward for winning wars, this reward will be honor or land and will be a combination based on both kingdoms relevant resources."

But yea u dont pull 10% from the enemy kd anymore. I think you get (2 kds combined honor)*5%.

I may not have been playing Utopia since the birth of Christ, but consider that:

a. honor was bugged, where honor was actually lost in war
b. base honor was 1200
c. war wins only gave 3% honor
d. each day in war resulted in a loss of 1% honor

The massive swings in honor from attacks has always been present afaik. Honor mechanics has shifted to honor being more easily obtained by the majority of players, not just "honor" kds. I actually feel that there's almost too much honor floating around nowadays.

Anyhow, the honor bonuses are very good - so imo it makes sense to have honor be a high risk - high reward type deal.

I dunno about you, but I'd prefer our attackers have as low of honor as possible, so when we wave into our next KD, we rip more honor faster and overpopulate harder.

Your T/Ms are the only ones that need honor.

Enjoy your free fort stance on steroids, WW credits and books.