Large Sustainable Growth

So, I'm just curious how exactly the whoring kds can pull off such large, consistent growth but still manage to be able to maintain quality numbers. I mean, I feel like I dice up 100 acres, and I need to spend the next 18 hours redrafting/training/ect. But yet you've got the whoring kds who dice/explore without stopping other than when they're switching to war or something.


Is it just really good prov management skills that I don't have? Or just a plethora or "small tips" that amount to large advantages?

Usually in my experience you have the two types of kd's...One who are comfortable with the talent of players they have and let them run there own provs effectively and one's who give set builds for the kd. Basically, the nerds of this game sit and calc out till the middle of there age the growth etc of the province.....They will run what they are comfortable with but mainly it's all about activity.. If you've been hit or chained down there's aid from the other provs available to pull you back up pretty quickly.... I remember EQ about 4 years ago when I sat as a relatively new player to the game and I got to the IRC channel and everybody was using calc on the bot calc'ing numbers for **** knows what. Ultimately I only sat for a week because I had no clue about numbers/calcs used in the game then. Even now I find the process tedious but I know some who swear by it.

I think both parts of your question are important in making it sustainable.

more like random/dice. but its no rocket science, just need 25 nubs doing the same :) a set build and guidelines ofc never hurt. just look at whoring kd's the first weeks, they be very fat growers if they know what they are doing. just gotta stay ahead of the pact.

Having once (recently) burst a faery sage to 900 OOP (in my second attacking faery age) I think I can say the oop requires some careful balancing to get right. A good sim is almost a must to figure out how you'll make stuff work out to get to your targets. That 900 was throttled back from 1k, and the actual oop values were fine even as I was going heavy elite - lack of kingdom backup meant I was smacked around from 24-72 hours after oop though. So while 900 alone isn't much of anything, it was a case where I got there without even really trying hard, just cause I ran a tight sim and set an alarm for 2 days. Trying to put serious legs under even the faery sage might have managed 1500+ acres - with a bank launch that puts you at what, 3k+ by 24 hours oop. And 'tisn't even a dwarf or shep.

As to top level *sustained* growth - no experience, so I can't speak to it directly. But I imagine a big piece of it is knowing the minimum defense (and offense, etc.) needed to stay safe - and everything else goes to econ. If you could run 50% DR, wouldn't you grow faster? (Having run as low as 55% before - even in a "war" build at lower DR, the growth/training etc. is easy.) I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff too - but I expect I could do at least half as well in their shoes just because of lower DR requirements.
(Yes, half as well is a very low bar, which is why I'm so sure I could manage it. And yes, I know it take all of a few days to fall off the pace and get eaten at only half speed. I'd like to think I'd do a lot better... but I've never played like that, so I know I don't know.)

Come play with us next age Palem, learn first hand.

Tell you once, tell you a thousand times. If the Faery Circle exists, I'm playing in it lol

Why not just help a bro out?

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Originally Posted by Palem

Tell you once, tell you a thousand times. If the Faery Circle exists, I'm playing in it lol

Why not just help a bro out?

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What if I initiate a hostile takeover of the Faery Circle and change the name to Beast Master Square?

What a subtle suggestion by Palem. Clearly, the course of action needed here... raze the Faery Circle to the ground !

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Originally Posted by Avenger

What a subtle suggestion by Palem. Clearly, the course of action needed here... raze the Faery Circle to the ground !

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You'd have to intra-KD raze them or they just come back :P

Willpower to come back can be eventually crushed by chained PK.

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Originally Posted by Ordray

What if I initiate a hostile takeover of the Faery Circle and change the name to Beast Master Square?

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Idk...might cry a little? lol

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Willpower to come back can be eventually crushed by chained PK.

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Allow me to quote Chumbawamba...

I get knocked down, but I get up again. You ain't ever gonna keep me down.

because they are fat. fat creates wealth. you are dicing right now on what? 55? 60? draft. You also have to devote space to useless buildings like forts and what not.

try dicing with 40% draft on 15% banks as merchant and that should answer your question.

You've got my intel, you know I don't run forts ;p

just an example for an average province.

based on your intel, you have too many guilds and homes and not enough libraries (0). You could also consider getting some forts. That will substantially help your econ.

We're not top kd large but been top 15 all age due to grabbing a lot of land in the wars we won, then doing the rebuild in the EoW CF. Then grow the chainees by waving OOW as silly mean kd's run from you when all you want is some warar :(

Top kd's, at least this age, has a tendency to need 10+ mil lying around at all times to enable growth and expect their NAPs to keep it safe. Thus they get all sad if it gets robbed. That's a luxury that midrange kd's will never be able to afford, nor can midrange afford the 40% draft thingie. In my experience in ranks 20-40 you should be 70% drafted to grow sustainable, and have talented players who steal/plunder for a way quick build up through a large intake of external money.

and add to that, hope that top 20 doesnt use you as food. I.e. its a totally different type of gamestyle in top 20 versus below.

Just 10m? No wonder they're all so bad. Can't even afford to convert.

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Originally Posted by Palem

You've got my intel, you know I don't run forts ;p

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Fae with no Forts? Fail!

Look at DHaran he is truely massif!

odd =\ .. whoring is boring.

faster you grow the fatter your economy.. Alot of players think you have to pump your province to 150% before you grow in land which isn't true! just keep land coming in and keep focus on your economy doesn't matter if your draft is at 70% or 50%. Once you reach your target acrage stop and turtle for a day or two and then continue to grow fat and fast! You'll be surprised how much faster you can grow at 150Nwpa compated to 175-180..

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Originally Posted by TerricK

faster you grow the fatter your economy.. Alot of players think you have to pump your province to 150% before you grow in land which isn't true! just keep land coming in and keep focus on your economy doesn't matter if your draft is at 70% or 50%. Once you reach your target acrage stop and turtle for a day or two and then continue to grow fat and fast! You'll be surprised how much faster you can grow at 150Nwpa compated to 175-180..

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it matters if your draft is 50% or 70% when growing becasue its how safely u can grow and how the kd wants you to grow. if your sitting at 55% draft and your kd isnt a threat u can bet u will get vultured on, thats a big deal if you were told to grow from 700-1200 acres and expected to get there "soon" while being 100% ready if your kd gets waved for war. Top 15 kds might not have that issue simply becasue there isnt as many kds up there and the chance of geting waved is more rare, but

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Originally Posted by Elurin

We're not top kd large but been top 15 all age due to grabbing a lot of land in the wars we won, then doing the rebuild in the EoW CF. Then grow the chainees by waving OOW as silly mean kd's run from you when all you want is some warar :(

Top kd's, at least this age, has a tendency to need 10+ mil lying around at all times to enable growth and expect their NAPs to keep it safe. Thus they get all sad if it gets robbed. That's a luxury that midrange kd's will never be able to afford, nor can midrange afford the 40% draft thingie. In my experience in ranks 20-40 you should be 70% drafted to grow sustainable, and have talented players who steal/plunder for a way quick build up through a large intake of external money.

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a 60-65% draft is required if u want to "grow" in the top 50 and be safe/semi war ready at all times.

Heck a decent draft rate & nw/acres is required even if u dont want to be war ready. E.x. it should be easy to see that u cant grow at 150 nw/acre if u take a look at targetfinder.eu. Say your one of the larger hitters in your top 50 nw kd's and your looking to grow/plunder/whatever just hit. Lets put the nw u want to be hitting into at the 250-300k range. Via the targetfinder you do a search for Nw 250k-300k, KD nw<5 million (so your somewhat safe in the kd u hit), not in war, not in fortified stance (max gains). That leaves u with 254 people u can hit, of which only 9 have a nw/acre<160.

It's because you're a faery, and all your teammates are faeries. If you were an orc, and you had 20 other orcs in your kd, then you can grow fat or whatever at peace by just keeping good opa, and doing good diplo.

We grew into the top 30 without any coordination or really much effort or skill/experience with growing.

Defending our acres isn't the problem. Growing fast enough is the problem...

You can probably get more speed if you get 25 full players. That, good coordination, and diplo is probably the solution.

Draft rate. Your a faery with no attackers, the only thing that makes you not get hit is keeping a high draft rate. Top KD's generally in non hostile situations are fairly fat. = Big income.

I could see an all faery KD being ok to grow into top 15 by EoA. Just because I do believe you could landlust enough in a hostile to make it not worth the effort of retal warring you. Of course in any war you would quickly be farmed out...

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Originally Posted by Palem

We grew into the top 30 without any coordination or really much effort or skill/experience with growing.

Defending our acres isn't the problem. Growing fast enough is the problem...

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yea, then you get into 1 war and make 8 land hits. Bye bye acers :D

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Originally Posted by goodz

I could see an all faery KD being ok to grow into top 15 by EoA. Just because I do believe you could landlust enough in a hostile to make it not worth the effort of retal warring you.

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goodz gets it.

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Originally Posted by NoseBlood

yea, then you get into 1 war and make 8 land hits. Bye bye acers :D

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Hahah, very true. Although "get into" isn't exactly correct -- more like begged and bent over backwards for someone to war us. I really don't know how we got that big while actively begging for a war. I mean, yeah, we got some attention from some big Kingdoms that could have fed on us, and it was by their good graces that they were respectful enough to back off. What amazes me is that so many Kingdoms ran away or declined to war us.

But to the topic, our faster growth earlier in the age had, I think, a lot to do with the timing of it. I really don't think people will let 150 NW/A go at our size any longer. It's going to be slow, measured growth from here on out I'd say.

People dont want to give you ops cos you can hit fortified and LL them, thats why you were allowed to grow.

Large Sustainable Growth....Viagra, try it

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Originally Posted by Bishop

People dont want to give you ops cos you can hit fortified and LL them, thats why you were allowed to grow.

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Right, but why's that past tense? What changed? lol

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Originally Posted by Palem

Right, but why's that past tense? What changed? lol

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You warred and got the daylights knocked out of you :P

If anyone wants to mess with us, they deserve what happens to them lol


Like we would actually declare before using hostile to our very most advantage in a real hostile situation.

stop picking on palem, by all accounts, he gave up every advantage in his matchup to arrange the war with me. That's actually kind of why no one wanted to war you palem, without a guarantee :P Faeries that don't declare are a waste of time.

Your still fun to hit once in awhile but its easyier to hit fatties

Quick solution. Be the biggest baddy out there and keep feeding off anyone trying to sneak up on ya ;)

Keep feeding off them with that offense we, by design, aren't supposed to have? lol

Ooooh you're referring to TFC and not just in general lol my bad

I'm some player in TFC. I think sustainable. I was paradise 24 times daily. Then still able to sustain a 100% elite army. And about 6-7 TPA. My only problem was as an inexperienced faery player I didn't committ enough guilds and my WPA stunk on big growth. That is now being rectified.
I run accel science, and what I said above. Between thief ops and income I grew fine. I only hit financial probs when I also explored, and my growth got out of control proportion to income. But fortified fixed that.