Interesting tactics and builds

Yo guys, so I restarted in a ghetto this age and we're in war. Problem is, we have some kdmates who just can't seem to accept feedback because they feel that they're correct about "certain things". Been trying to explain but to no avail so I actually asked them to post in forums to get real feedback if they feel i'm wrong, but they refuse to consider this, as they feel they're pretty solid players.

Would appreciate some neutral feedback so that they can read without having to be so defensive. If i'm wrong, feel free to let me know btw. Thanks


Things KD Mates say and do:
1. FB results are affected by the % of guilds (ie. they can kill more peasants with higher % of guilds)
2. They want to train elites in war
3. They want to used trained elites to slay dragon
4. One province (Faery Heretic) started war with 0 guilds
5. Biggest faery (~1-1.1k acres) started war with 0.2 rtpa and has been farming opposing kd with runes to destroy Ritual.
6. They feel trade balance is an indication of their pro skills
7. Running rainbow builds (i.e TDs without having any thieves)
8. Running 50% wages throughout the war
9. Faery heretic only doing self-spells and running 1tpa
10. Playing faery without WTs and thieves.

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Originally Posted by azsxdcfv

Yo guys, so I restarted in a ghetto this age and we're in war. Problem is, we have some kdmates who just can't seem to accept feedback because they feel that they're correct about "certain things". Been trying to explain but to no avail so I actually asked them to post in forums to get real feedback if they feel i'm wrong, but they refuse to consider this, as they feel they're pretty solid players.

Would appreciate some neutral feedback so that they can read without having to be so defensive. If i'm wrong, feel free to let me know btw. Thanks


Things KD Mates say and do:
1. FB results are affected by the % of guilds (ie. they can kill more peasants with higher % of guilds)
2. They want to train elites in war
3. They want to used trained elites to slay dragon
4. One province (Faery Heretic) started war with 0 guilds
5. Biggest faery (~1-1.1k acres) started war with 0.2 rtpa and has been farming opposing kd with runes to destroy Ritual.
6. They feel trade balance is an indication of their pro skills
7. Running rainbow builds (i.e TDs without having any thieves)
8. Running 50% wages throughout the war
9. Faery heretic only doing self-spells and running 1tpa
10. Playing faery without WTs and thieves.

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1. No, Guilds affect the duration of spells, both offensive and defense, but not the damage of instant offensive spells.
2. Sure, if you can manage it and it doesn't affect the overall kingdom strategy, but it is expensive and more than likely, you aren't using your province to his full capacity if you are trying to pump while fighting.
3. Ehhh.. there are situations for this, but not typically. usually, you toss specs at it since they are cheap to replace.
4. Why?!
5. See number 4.
6. TB is only an indication to how much aid you have sent or received.. Chained provinces probably have a negative TB, T/Ms probably have a positive one.. :/
7. Typical newbie strategy.
8. Unless chained, 200% all the way!
9. Casting on others? That is fine, but TPA should definitely be WAY higher, otherwise, whats the point of half of Heretic's attributes?
10. See 4 and 5.


Basically, teach the guys that are willing to learn, leave the others to their own devices. If they enjoy it and aren't willing, let them do their thing. There are plenty of mid-tier+ kingdoms that would be willing to take you and any of the guys that are willing to learn.

Just that these things might work in their experience.

Trade balance being pro is kind of like this: if you're chained it's bad to have crappy tb, particularly ifthe enemy gets explosions on you.

The faery thing is kind of funny but could be that no one figures it out because their common experience is losing thieves when you mess with faery. The other is defacto stealth waste since they're probably not using ET. That is: in my experience I've run into attackers with very poor peripheral defenses. The result was my side nearly exhausted all resources on easy targets. Their heavy attackers remained relatively intact. They lost the war, but the attacker strat was surprisingly resilient.

Rainbow strats work. I'm not saying they're the best option, but they are functional enough for their advocates to continue using them.

Basically, it's that running into great kingdoms and getting crushed is seen as just being in the wrong fight. The hidden wisdom in running bad strats is they remain in the tier where almost everyone runs bad strats. By improving they run into tougher competition and lose more wars than they win. It's backward logic that's served some kingdoms for well over a decade.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

Just that these things might work in their experience.

Trade balance being pro is kind of like this: if you're chained it's bad to have crappy tb, particularly ifthe enemy gets explosions on you.

The faery thing is kind of funny but could be that no one figures it out because their common experience is losing thieves when you mess with faery. The other is defacto stealth waste since they're probably not using ET. That is: in my experience I've run into attackers with very poor peripheral defenses. The result was my side nearly exhausted all resources on easy targets. Their heavy attackers remained relatively intact. They lost the war, but the attacker strat was surprisingly resilient.

Rainbow strats work. I'm not saying they're the best option, but they are functional enough for their advocates to continue using them.

Basically, it's that running into great kingdoms and getting crushed is seen as just being in the wrong fight. The hidden wisdom in running bad strats is they remain in the tier where almost everyone runs bad strats. By improving they run into tougher competition and lose more wars than they win. It's backward logic that's served some kingdoms for well over a decade.

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Plenty of truth in this, when fighting in those lower tiers, what they actually do is less important than just being active. More attacks = war win. As you get higher in the ranks, bad strategies start to really show, and you either adjust, or get knocked back down to where it works.

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Originally Posted by LuckySports

1. No, Guilds affect the duration of spells, both offensive and defense, but not the damage of instant offensive spells.
2. Sure, if you can manage it and it doesn't affect the overall kingdom strategy, but it is expensive and more than likely, you aren't using your province to his full capacity if you are trying to pump while fighting.
3. Ehhh.. there are situations for this, but not typically. usually, you toss specs at it since they are cheap to replace.
4. Why?!
5. See number 4.
6. TB is only an indication to how much aid you have sent or received.. Chained provinces probably have a negative TB, T/Ms probably have a positive one.. :/
7. Typical newbie strategy.
8. Unless chained, 200% all the way!
9. Casting on others? That is fine, but TPA should definitely be WAY higher, otherwise, whats the point of half of Heretic's attributes?
10. See 4 and 5.


Basically, teach the guys that are willing to learn, leave the others to their own devices. If they enjoy it and aren't willing, let them do their thing. There are plenty of mid-tier+ kingdoms that would be willing to take you and any of the guys that are willing to learn.

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Really appreciate your feedback. TBH, I've been been taking time off from Uto, so just wanted to chill a little and maybe try help others improve. Just a little tough to talk to people who are defensive so I thought I'd try get some neutral opinions.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

Just that these things might work in their experience.

Trade balance being pro is kind of like this: if you're chained it's bad to have crappy tb, particularly ifthe enemy gets explosions on you.

The faery thing is kind of funny but could be that no one figures it out because their common experience is losing thieves when you mess with faery. The other is defacto stealth waste since they're probably not using ET. That is: in my experience I've run into attackers with very poor peripheral defenses. The result was my side nearly exhausted all resources on easy targets. Their heavy attackers remained relatively intact. They lost the war, but the attacker strat was surprisingly resilient.

Rainbow strats work. I'm not saying they're the best option, but they are functional enough for their advocates to continue using them.

Basically, it's that running into great kingdoms and getting crushed is seen as just being in the wrong fight. The hidden wisdom in running bad strats is they remain in the tier where almost everyone runs bad strats. By improving they run into tougher competition and lose more wars than they win. It's backward logic that's served some kingdoms for well over a decade.

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They feel that because they have a strong TB, it shows that they're playing in a pro way by always sending out. Of course sending aid is great teamwork, but I feel that it doesn't actually represent skills. I understand that coming from war-tier where emphasis is placed on discipline and specific builds for war, it may also be drastically different to what they're used to, but this is a strategy game, so tactics and builds should have a strategic value sometimes. BTW, thanks for your feedback

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Originally Posted by LuckySports

Plenty of truth in this, when fighting in those lower tiers, what they actually do is less important than just being active. More attacks = war win. As you get higher in the ranks, bad strategies start to really show, and you either adjust, or get knocked back down to where it works.

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This is true.

A while ago I was in a kingdom called Tap Out. Some of the guys would prank each other with aid bombs. They might do a big plunder, dump all their aid on one guy and put their aid blocking up. It had all the prestige of playing hot potato.

When I started playing I had guys teaching me how to eyeball attacks without intel. I was in a war where the entire enemy kingdom didn't know what the other 3 generals were for.

"For all intensive purposes I said I was supposably flustrated. What are you, death?"

^ These are my favorite people in the world :) ^

1. Not true.
2. Generally, a bad idea.
3. Only if you are aiming to lower nw to get better gains on semi-chained prov. Very situational.
4. You will get crappy results with self spells and support spells negating one of Faery's biggest pros.
5. If t/m, smh. If attacker, not so bad. Get him/her to login more and aid out runes to prevent theft.
6. Trade balance was added as a game mechanic to prevent 24 provs pumping up 1 super prov. Not an indication of leet skills at all.
7. Not the worst thing to happen especially if you're trying to play the mythical, never seen super A/T/M. However, all buildings should have some strategic value, hence having TDs without thieves is just fail. 0 TPA multiplied by the 60% boost from TDs is still 0TPA.
8. Situational. If you're chained and can't pay wages. If you're being fireballed and can't pay wages. If you're trying to fund drag asap. If you're UB and trying to pump up recovering chained. However, bear in mind that it doesn't have to be 50% all the time. You can finagle the percentages depending on the other kd's top offense to settle on a final mod def value you're comfortable with.
9. Again, not the worst as there is still contribution from the prov but only making some use of the prov the way humans only use 10% of brain capacity.
10. Maybe he's an attacking faery?

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Originally Posted by azsxdcfv

Yo guys, so I restarted in a ghetto this age and we're in war. Problem is, we have some kdmates who just can't seem to accept feedback because they feel that they're correct about "certain things".

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Some player just enjoy having "fun' and how they do it is how they like to do it. its the issue with "Ghetos. As to your list others have mostly/basically commented on all the points. Generally you need guilds/tpa/focused builds to run a successfull prov. The one laughable thing is trade balance is literally the most useless number to examine unless your a t/m about to be bounce-waved lol.

For what its worth FB fixed damage/cast just like LL. I'd put money on the reason they think u get more with more guilds is a combination of spell length being longer with higher guilds AND fb having reduced damage when casting oor. So when they are chained and casting on 3-4% guilds they think that lower damage is guilds not the range.

As for the comments others havent really adressed or i disagree with

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Originally Posted by azsxdcfv

3. They want to used trained elites to slay dragon
8. Running 50% wages throughout the war

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my kd usually uses leets to slay "often". Thats becasue when we get dragons its either mid-late war and t/m are using leets too slay def, or attackers dont "need" all the offense they have left. In general though unless you fit one of those 2 cases (3rd case is chained so kill dragon instead of release) its not optimal to use leets but certainly not one of the worst things to do.

honestly 50% wages in war is VERY common, i probably sat at 50% wages for 2 full ages when i was running pure leet elf mystic. Having gc to aid is pretty nice and raw military numbers typically pay off v having that perfect ome/dme from wages. With that said, early war and IF u have good econ 200% wages is 'better.'

maybe it was mentioned but I don't think it was completely explained Guilds affect successrate and length on self spells, WPA affects succesrate and length of offensive spells, you can have 0% guilds and do FB's but you'll never land anything on yourself or your team mates.

I can't really see something wrong with training elites in war, the key here is you don't want to be hellbent on training elites only, I've been in wars vs some that would only train elites, they ended up with almost no offenses and was quite useless in the end, the funny thing is that it was easily to spot that from a mile away, and we intentionally ambushed that one player over and over again to get them there faster, the province we targetted ended the war on 2-3 epa I think. With wages also you want flexibility more than anything, you do not pay 200% if they blanket you with greed, but 50% will hurt a lot, so it is better to lower it to 100% or 150% depending on the situation, if chained or mass fb'ed go 50% immidiately, the trick in war is keep drafting, but do not set payrate so high that you can't train what you draft unless you run orc and are spamming soldiers for your allies since draft is free.

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Originally Posted by Persain

my kd usually uses leets to slay "often". Thats becasue when we get dragons its either mid-late war and t/m are using leets too slay def, or attackers dont "need" all the offense they have left. In general though unless you fit one of those 2 cases (3rd case is chained so kill dragon instead of release) its not optimal to use leets but certainly not one of the worst things to do.

honestly 50% wages in war is VERY common, i probably sat at 50% wages for 2 full ages when i was running pure leet elf mystic. Having gc to aid is pretty nice and raw military numbers typically pay off v having that perfect ome/dme from wages. With that said, early war and IF u have good econ 200% wages is 'better.'

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You're right in that there are people out to have "fun", and their definition may be different from ours. I see a lot of kds where they focus more on socializing and chilling out whereas at higher tiers, it's more result focused and competitive.

He (faery/heretic) chose to use elites to slay dragon when i said that sending dspecs would be cheaper and open up more popspace. And he was asking for aid to train more elites so that he could continue sending to dragon. BTW, he is also the one claiming that high % of guilds will increase FB gains...so he has razed his buildings during war and now has 27% guilds. Plus there is a Faery/Mystic starting war with 0.2rtpa and 10% banks etc and not helping with MS yet feeding runes/gc to opposing kd to destroy ritual.

50% wages in war is common i agree, but normally you'd start to reduce it mid-later part of the war because having a good ME at start boosts off/def which you can scale down once offense is being chained IMHO. BTW, that prov running 50% wages suicided and is giving easy acres to TMs in opposing kd lol.

LOL

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Originally Posted by Persain

AND fb having reduced damage when casting oor. So when they are chained and casting on 3-4% guilds they think that lower damage is guilds not the range.

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Since when instant offensive spells have NW protection? I didn't play for couple of ages and might have missed some changes but didn't notice anything like this this age. Was casting FB effectively on provs +/- 50% of my NW. Now NW difference does affect duration.

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Originally Posted by Bo To

Since when instant offensive spells have NW protection? I didn't play for couple of ages and might have missed some changes but didn't notice anything like this this age. Was casting FB effectively on provs +/- 50% of my NW. Now NW difference does affect duration.

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I feel like you roll low more often out of range, but aren't going below the range. Harder to tell as much with fireballs, since range is smaller and bottom is still high gains. Something like LL or tornado it's really easy to see range lower gains.

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

I feel like you roll low more often out of range, but aren't going below the range. Harder to tell as much with fireballs, since range is smaller and bottom is still high gains. Something like LL or tornado it's really easy to see range lower gains.

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Yeah, ops on much bigger or much smaller provinces does less damage than if you were closer to their size, but it isn't a HUGE difference. Success rate is definitely much more affected.

I wanna play in a ghetto. :)

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Originally Posted by Chrim

I wanna play in a ghetto. :)

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no you don't :) Haha