Hi folks - let us know what you think of the changes. Please keep it polite and on topic.
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Hi folks - let us know what you think of the changes. Please keep it polite and on topic.
Thank god for the kd page update, I reeeeally hope it works, lol.
Orcs get their elite credits back!
Province networth will be shown in SoT!
So Avian still has it's -20% birthrate where it's leets is at 8/3. On the other hand, Faery has only -10% birthrate and it's leets at 4/7. In terms of offensive strength after balancing the offense and defense, they are about the same strength. Differences is that each Faery's leet cost 250 gc more than Avian but it has got TOG. If a Faery Sage were to run enough sciences, it could easily overpower an Avian (if u take offensive spells into consideration as well) imo.
I still prefer if Undead has heavier science penalty to discourage the use of Sage pers to make up for it's weakness. Most pers still works very well with Undead imo.
Orc is fine, so does human. Human Sage/ Merchant with enough science pumped is way overpowered imo.
Rouge > Mystic. Halfing > Faery. Enough said.
AvianQuote:
Originally Posted by carter
Penalty:
* - 20% birthrate (reduced from -30%)
Faery
Penalty:
* - 10% population
Birthrate =/= Population
Oh no! Undead looses mages fury? how are they supposed to be able to use NM then? :(
Changes are decent, although slightly boring imo. At least Elf was nerfed slightly, although there goes my original kd strategy ;)
(Also to second what Tiberious said below, thanks for getting these out there well in advance!)
Thanks for getting changes out there early. Gives us more time to think about it, as most are warring till eoa, and enjoy the brief break in between ages.
*waits for 10 pages of complaining that Undead got a boost*
Good changes overall, slightly dissapointed of dual button removal though.
May I ask though why no changes for shephards? You changed dwarves slightly with increased BE but not a single change to shephard which is the pick that fewest people have taken.
Grant them increased effectiveness or homes or something that will make them a candidate for other people than explorers or dwarves.
There is a link, click the blue word.
My bad, I did not noticed the difference...Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
The immune to plague and the almost 0% requirement for farms is kinda imba imo. You are basically untouchable from the undeads...Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbak
Seriously, Undead Sage is gonna have + 15% to Science bonus, making it a race without weakness at all (not including the leet conversion because it's free)Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
We all are gonna see a rise in Orc Tact this age - the spec credits for Orc is superb. We are also gonna see Dwarf Sage with heavy food science pumped, not to mention BE and pop pump...
In short, the next age would be quite balanced imo, except for undead (still being too imba) ...
It will have a +10.5% Science effectiveness bonus, and there are better options...
Oooops... thanks, Dharan!Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
why would anyone pick UD now that orc can train elites with credits...stupid change.
Good elf change tho. Would been boring to go war all elf kd's.
I think sage is very strong... but then, I'm aware I "abuse" it almost as well as anyone, so that's probably personal bias. TDs just got cooler, while rogue stops getting super-broken TDs... I think that'll work well.
All the age mechanic changes look good. Simple, but good. Race changes look good, well balanced. If I don't take Faery I'm hard pressed to figure out what I do pick. (Other than not elf, but that's a personal bias again - I make a bad mage.) Was hoping to see something that buffed Faery a bit more than the cheaper elites... but I don't think it needs it.
Re: undead. Anyone have a good rule of thumb for what a mid-late age undead's elite/spec ratio is? I'd assumed 100% elite and 50/50 when I ran my "power rankings" last age... and I don't know if the 50/50 was fair or not. I'd found them fairly weak on raw power when they were only 50/50, but no offense losses was pretty major, as is plague.
I approve these changes
Carter likes thisQuote:
Originally Posted by SoShaan
Ethan - More than a 50/50 ratio if the conversion mechanics are the same in the next age and you can still safely bottomfeed for ~9% conversion. The last couple of wars I've gone in at about 80/20 (elites/ospecs).
haha, we're fighting war and some enemy provs are now running 100% elite offense thanks to us. The percentages depend on the situationQuote:
Originally Posted by Eldest
I see changes that I did not even know people wanted to change. The hot discussion was Elf, Undead, Orc and war meter.
For example, the changes on elves is now negative for them with the bad economy again... You wanted a "true" a/m role, then devs change it to a bad choice, money-wise instead. (Who suggested that anyway?)
Orcs were fine with no credits for elites, imo. Now they are almost as they were before last changes. (I've seen requests for this)
Undead did now gain science instead. This do not do much differents, except for UD/rouge or mystics.
War-meter stays, seems ok. It was a hot debate and I think DHaran was right about it.
The changes are still ok. Several playable races. Will Faery be the mage choice for most again?
What does this means they can train it if they want or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Landro
Orcs can spend the training credits they earn on elites instead of specs. They can still elites with cash as beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by stefan_e85
It's sad that shep didn't get a boost. It's really the weakest personality
A tweak to give NB a higher chance to cure the Plague would also have been welcome
Shepherd was the least popular Personality and it didn't get a change. Add something like -30% Raze costs or +25% Building Credits or Horses twice as powerful.
It's the only Personality that has no benefits with Attacking/Defending (other than Rogue/Mystic).
These changes should present one of the most balanced Ages. Can't wait!
EDIT:
Can the devs give us a heads up about the new Honor System, I know it won't be an easy change... but it was mentioned before and not now. Just curious where that whole discussion is leading
No, shep has gotten better as undeads were boosted so more undeads, more plague, more need for shep. Ah well, i now understand i always played utopia wrong, i considered suicider strats a flaw in the races/personalities, but now we have not one, but two excellent suicidal powerhouses, orc and undead. Lovely (and that's not purely sarcastic, it's a great way to play and annoy your opponent, but it removes so much strategy from the game).Quote:
Originally Posted by Landro
UD has gotten a small boost but Orc got a major boost. I expect to see more Orcs than UD next ageQuote:
Originally Posted by Yadda9To5
Orcs are nice... Human/Merch are still amazing.
The only problem with merchants is that after you have removed their peasants their income ain't that great any more.
Orc/warrior Heavy attacker will have around 150 mod OPA (war, 4 gen, fanaticism) and 43 mod DPA (elites out, fanaticism)
Lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by kilava
Assuming 500 BPA, Lord. 1,36 raw wpa/tpa, 8 DSPA they can get 150 Mod OPA
Just look at the offense modifiers = 1,076 (wages) * 1,09 (4 gen) * 1,01 (lord) * 1,05 (fanaticism) * 1,1855 (TG) * 1,1(warrior) = 1,62 which is a lot
"Thief Dens loss reduction will take effect on successful operations."
Can someone explain to me what that means?
And also can you explain what how the DBE will affect the Rogue bonus? (by using an example please)
People were complaining about losing more thieves on successes than on fails. Now the reduced losses counts on successes too.
14% thieves dens will be calculated by the game as if you had 28% thieves dens.
EDIT:
Base Effect * BE * % of building * (100% - % of building)
Which means instead of:
8 (TD loss bonus) * 100 (base) * 14 * (100 - 14)
It will be:
4 * 100 * 28 * (100 - 28)
Funny that Shephard is the least used personality in a very massed Undead age.Quote:
Originally Posted by carter
And no, you are not "untouchable" from any Undead just because you can avoid plague.
As I understand it this is how it will work next age.
Percentage Based Buildings = Base Effect * BE * % of building * (100% - % of building)
DBE is this part "(100% - % of building)"
20% as a rogue is calculated as you had 40%
TD base effect for thievery eff.is 3%.
A rogue that builds 20% TD and have 90% BE will have a thievery bonus of:
Thievery bonus = 3 * 0,9 * 40 * 0,6 = +64,8%
Base Effect * BE * % of building * (100% - % of building)
Thief Dens age 50 for rogue [for thief efficiency] = 3 * BE * % of building * 2 * (100 - % of building)
Thief Dens age 51 for rogue [for thief efficiency] = 3 * BE * % of building * 2 * (100 - (% of building * 2))
So let's assume the BE is a constant at 90%, and % of building is constant at 15%.
Thief dens age 50 for rogue = 3 * 0.9 * 15 * 2 * (1 - 0.15) = 3 * 0.9 * 15 * 2 * 0.85 = 68.85% thievery efficiency
Thief dens age 51 for rogue = 3 * 0.9 * 15 * 2 * (1 - 0.3) = 3 * 0.9 * 15 * 2 * 0.7 = 56.7% thievery efficiency
regarding "Thief Dens loss reduction will take effect on successful operations."
with max tdens: if you send 2000 thieves, and failed, you would loose 2-3 thieves (because of the -95% losses given by tdens)
with max tdens: if you send 2000 thieves on a rob vaults when he only has like 100k gold, you would succeed, but you could loose 20-30 thieves, because the -95% losses given by thief dens wouldnt work.
I have no clue why some people have such a hatred for Elf. This used to be my race of choice even when it had major disadvanatges over other races. Starting last age and continued on this age you have made Elf totaly worthless. Even to someone like me who would go Elf even if there might well be easier/better choices. Trying to call this an A/M race is absurd it's still a failure T/M race when compared to Faery.
You improved an Elves Econ in age 50 here after lord knows how long of Elf having the weakest econ and now you've gone right back into them again having a horrible Econ. The problem with Elf this age was such an absurdly weak Elite so far below the strength of the next weakest. Adding one point to their Elite (and increasing the cost a tad) should have been all you needed to do with Elf to make it viable. Ie you only need to ballence something out if to prevent it from being overpowered and a 7/3 Elite is still probably the weakest Elite of the races (Halfers 6/5 has far more utility) there was no call to go back to giving Elf again a horribly weak Econ especialy since you still don't have them with a WPA mod.
The 30% instant spell bonus affects nothing much other than FB, the only other instant spell I can think of that Elves have access to is Amnesia (a very rarely used spell). This is so insanely limited you could just throw it back on Mysitc and it would have no practical effect on Elf playability. If you have so much fine print conditions as to never make something apply to anything then this is nothing more than a dog and pony show there is almost nothing to this supposed bonus.
Elves
Bonuses:
* + 2 mana per tick in war
* Defensive Specialist Strength +1
* +30% Spell Effects (For Instant Spells Only) (Excludes Mystic Vortex, Tree of Gold, and Paradise) - yes, I am aware elf doesn't have ToG.
(lost troops cost reduction)
Penalty:
* No access to Dungeons
Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Rangers (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Archers (0/6)
* Elite Unit: Elf Lord (7/3, $750, 6 nw)(from 6/3 5.5nw)
* Spellbook: Mystic Aura, Clear Sight, Fountain of Knowledge, Pitfalls, Amnesia, Quick Feet, Reflect Magic, Mages Fury
Elf was by a wide margin the weakest race and winds up getting nerfed as much as it gets boosts.
UD was a general nuisance and an excessivly popular race and gets a further boost (lower sci penalty) despite not needing it.
Orc was middle of the road and gets massive boosts (combined Elite credits with Elite cost reduction).
Whats the idea here shouldn't you be looking to boost up the weak and balance out the already strong?
changes suck as usual
Another heavy attack age... They need to consider making an Age of Thievery and Magic sometime. Make people play the T/M side or die as an attacker. Let people bring on some serious ops oow/hostile and nerf all the off bonuses. Just to change things up a bit.