Challenge for all traders

If you care as much as bout the shrinkage of this game as you say, then I have a proposition for you.

For one or two ages (preferably two) take a time out from striving for the top and spend that time in the Ghettos/lesser kingdoms teaching them the fundamentals.

I suggest this because you all claim it is easy enough anyway. If it is so easy to trade, then take a break from your skd's and help the current player base to learn the fundamentals.

At the very least help them learn the fundamentals, because I promise you that you will be surprised at their lack of knowledge of even the basics.

Help them develop into a kingdom. Be patient, don't force hyperactivity.

If you do this, and they learn from you...we will have gone a long way in the process of restoring Utopia.

And trust me, you will find developing a kingdom out of average players a very challenging experience.

Do you think you can handle the challenge?

Done that already. I defected mid-round into a kingdom with a handful of active players, everybody had just defected a week earlier due to internal turmoil. The round after that, we finished with an 8/7 war record at top 100-200 NW and honour or so, personal province finish at 100 NW and honour. Around 20 staying players, I think. I did trade in a player near the end of the second round (I was against trading at the time and felt horribly guilty about it, but he was a very good friend I'd met in-game that I really wanted to play with. Didn't regret it either, we're still friends and have met up) other than that it was clean.

As for teaching, I do quite a bit of that in #strategy. Mostly nubs hang out there, and it's usually about the fundamentals of the game. And lots of spamming, of course.

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I suggest this because you all claim it is easy enough anyway. If it is so easy to trade, then take a break from your skd's and help the current player base to learn the fundamentals.

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What is easy enough? Why should we take a break from kingdoms and friends who rely on us? I spend time each day helping nubs and am having a hard time managing my kingdom on top of that, now you want me to ditch them? Wouldn't that be a wee bit illoyal?

I fully agree that nubs matter for the future of the game. And I would like to see more kingdoms function well. Better communications is a big part of that, allowing nub kingdoms to stabilize by inviting friends is also a big part. #strategy has probably helped over 1000 nubs since it started 1.5 years ago, you're welcome to help out if you wish.

Most people who trade have once upon a time started out in a role like that. I think I spent 2 years teaching new players the basics before getting incredibly bored of seeing people come and go and have to start all over. If you care as much about the shrinkage of the game, I suggest trying to be a little more open minded. ;)

Seeing as how this is strictly speaking not a suggestion, I'll move this one to UT.

Yeh like greeney said most pro traders have ran for awhile in a ghetto trying to help out.

They either get burn out from banging their heads against the wall or will never random again.

For me, it was frustration over players quitting once I'd managed to build up a good kingdom. That happens at all levels of the game, we had a good streak and then it was taken down by mostly outside circumstances. Maintaining some level of stability is enjoyable to most people in a team based game, having to fluctuate wildly all the time gets really frustrating. So in the end, I bailed out on them after 3 fierce rounds where we'd been racing upwards.

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Originally Posted by Greeney

Most people who trade have once upon a time started out in a role like that. I think I spent 2 years teaching new players the basics before getting incredibly bored of seeing people come and go and have to start all over. If you care as much about the shrinkage of the game, I suggest trying to be a little more open minded. ;)

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I am open minded....just had a presumption proven wrong is all.
lol
well, I don't know what would curb the decline then. I know it needs a huge plaer base (around 30k at least) to have some of the original dynamics of the game.
All I can really suggest is have couple of different playing options available in attempt to bring membership back.

I.E., have one server set up like with legit limited trading, another as is, another like genesis (but without the testing out new functions bit. Perhaps increase it to like three ages before each reset.) And another will people can multi (with a reset every round), etc.

It's time we started messing around with those dynamics so we can stop all the "will kill the game/will bring it back" nonsense.

lol Phoenix, it was a suggestion...just not for developers. At least ot with original post (but what bout now?)

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Originally Posted by VT2

I.E., have one server set up like with legit limited trading, another as is, another like genesis (but without the testing out new functions bit. Perhaps increase it to like three ages before each reset.) And another will people can multi (with a reset every round), etc.

It's time we started messing around with those dynamics so we can stop all the "will kill the game/will bring it back" nonsense.

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Yes, ages ago I'd have liked to see the purpose of one of the servers used to either relax rules and/or ban alliances.

banning alliances is next to impossible.

The only way to restrict more then one Kingdom working together has been done to death within WoL.

First age of Genesis was supposed to be alliance free but a bunch of Myth, AR and KLA people ran around with the KLYT tag as a joke.

Nothing was done beyond Blake deleting banners, leaving messages in kingdom forums about mature content of the banners and a bunch of people complaining on utopia temples forums ...... and now look at genesis :P

It's human nature to band together with like minded people for self preservation.

So true Hurlin

One thing that helped me a lot when I started this game was the fan sites that explained things. A lot of those are no longer updated. There is a Wiki for formulas, but not much for new player info. It would be nice for some of those things to come back.

I made a random account in a ghetto at the start of the previous age.
That was about 48h after age had started.

I went straight to forums, and saw a thread posted by the monarch entitled "Kingdom orders". The current orders were to train only defensive specialists in protection to "protect our acres efficiently" and that afterwards noone was allowed to keep less than 50DPA at home. There was also a "Roll Call" thread in which I could notice the Kingdom had 3 T/M, 3 Super Thiefs and 2 Super Mages - including the Monarch itself - to a mere 12 attackers.

After spending 3 days trying to explain everyone why this was very wrong and nothing good could come off that horrible Kingdom setup, I simply deleted my account.

Well done, brave sir Toadi!

Well you know I'm weak and can't resist to the calls of ex kdmates :(

The day someone figures out how to detect traded provinces and X-logging for real, the game will change dramatically.

Aww, you've turned to believing in miracles and prophecy now?

Being able to detect X-logging would be awesome though.

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Originally Posted by insane

For one or two ages (preferably two) take a time out from striving for the top and spend that time in the Ghettos/lesser kingdoms teaching them the fundamentals.

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why do ppl seem to assume that only top kds trade? i have maybe 7 traded players in my kingdom, and the reason they are traded in is that they are friends, simple as that. not so we can win the charts. and all the accounts were given up to us by players who had to leave for one reason or another.

anyway, to stay on topic - i am in a semi-ghetto, and i do teach the other players as much as i can, via posts in game and msn/irc conversations. what drives me crazy is when a player i have spent time with teaching goes inactive and his account is lost (either through 10 days inactivity or we have to kill him) - that just discourages me.

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Originally Posted by VT2

The day someone figures out how to detect traded provinces and X-logging for real, the game will change dramatically.

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That will be the day 75 to 90 percent of the players mysteriously disappear. :p

And then VTnub will be left behind to happily rule a barren volcano world!

oooh volcanoes .... wouldn't that be kool ..... random mess all around

I mean, just look at LOTR, they have a volcano. And they are cool... If everyone leave can i be Sauron?

You can be Gollum

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Originally Posted by Toadi

Being able to detect X-logging would be awesome though.

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yeah, x-logging is far more important to catch than trading IMO
you trade so you can get people who can make it almost 24/7 to hit/wave/etc
(or has been said, to play with friends!)
stamp out the x-loggers first, cause a traded kd will have 25 "legitimate" provs attacking in that first hour of war
meanwhile the x-logging kd can get 25 provs attacking in from <10 people

Tell me, what is the difference between having 25 X-logged provinces attacking 24/7 and having 25 traded provinces attacking 24/7?

If you cheat then you cheat. Thats all there is to it. Pretty simple. Traded kingdoms and X-logged kingdoms are the same. The EXCUSE is the only difference.

Running an actual kingdom of twenty-five provinces requires twenty-five active, skilled, and dedicated players working together towards a common goal. X-logging allows one player to circumvent these needs and run an entire kingdom himself. If you cannot distinguish between the severity of trading and that of X-logging, you should not bother posting.

I hear ya Toadi, lol.. try to explain why half the KD can't go T/M, Super-mage etc..
jesus..

one and a half age in a gheto now :) after "retirement" I felt the need to give back to the game lol. Seriously though, tryingto get this DEF DEF DEF thinking out of thier heads is not easy..
the notion of working together, and thus running a low def high off ratio being viable jsut dooesn't seem to sink in. I beleive its the word "teamwork" thats getting some people confused...

I'm stil lworking on step one: 1.) Convince them that 12 T/Ms (or even worse, a few "super-mage"s), and 8 attackers Is not the way to go..

anyone know a ncie brick wall to bang your head against? :)

<3 Utopia

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Running an actual kingdom of twenty-five provinces requires twenty-five active, skilled, and dedicated players working together towards a common goal. X-logging allows one player to circumvent these needs and run an entire kingdom himself. If you cannot distinguish between the severity of trading and that of X-logging, you should not bother posting.

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Oh really? And the results are EXACTLY the same. After all it is the RESULTS that matter. It's all about getting to the top. So yea, I do understand and apparently more than you. So please don't bother to post anymore. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds

Tell me, what is the difference between having 25 X-logged provinces attacking 24/7 and having 25 traded provinces attacking 24/7?

If you cheat then you cheat. Thats all there is to it. Pretty simple. Traded kingdoms and X-logged kingdoms are the same. The EXCUSE is the only difference.

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I agree with you, even though I've personally done both at different times (a few provinces, not an entire kingdom), but the difference is that some hypocrites believe that cheating in ways ihich many other people break rules is justifiable, where as cheating in ways that fewer people break rules is disgusting.

Personally, I'm in favour of suggestions like Catwalk's that allow limited trading, but people who report cheaters or complain about one type of cheating while doing another is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Catwalk

Done that already. I defected mid-round into a kingdom with a handful of active players, everybody had just defected a week earlier due to internal turmoil. The round after that, we finished with an 8/7 war record at top 100-200 NW and honour or so, personal province finish at 100 NW and honour. Around 20 staying players, I think. I did trade in a player near the end of the second round (I was against trading at the time and felt horribly guilty about it, but he was a very good friend I'd met in-game that I really wanted to play with. Didn't regret it either, we're still friends and have met up) other than that it was clean.

As for teaching, I do quite a bit of that in #strategy. Mostly nubs hang out there, and it's usually about the fundamentals of the game. And lots of spamming, of course.


What is easy enough? Why should we take a break from kingdoms and friends who rely on us? I spend time each day helping nubs and am having a hard time managing my kingdom on top of that, now you want me to ditch them? Wouldn't that be a wee bit illoyal?

I fully agree that nubs matter for the future of the game. And I would like to see more kingdoms function well. Better communications is a big part of that, allowing nub kingdoms to stabilize by inviting friends is also a big part. #strategy has probably helped over 1000 nubs since it started 1.5 years ago, you're welcome to help out if you wish.

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Wow, you did that well? You must be one of the best players out there.

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Originally Posted by Catwalk

For me, it was frustration over players quitting once I'd managed to build up a good kingdom. That happens at all levels of the game, we had a good streak and then it was taken down by mostly outside circumstances.

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It seems inevitable when trying to help a ghetto. For every bit of progress you make, something pushes you back. Unless you're very lucky of course. You need the luck to avoid those unforseen events knocking you back all the time or you'll never really get anywhere. If you don't get that luck it does get very frustrating.

Osi, this thread died months ago.. Fag lizzano just bumped few threads back :)

I agree Osiris, it's a really tough spot. You do need need luck, for sure.


Hah, did u call me a fag MA!?

No need to be projecting dear "Angel". We do know what most serbs are interested in and we don't have a problem with it. Don't be ashamed and please, do not use projections!

Thank you :)

It was more said in cuddly way, not insulting.. KD habbit, sorry :)

wow, i suck :( Sorry about that.