Oil continues to drop into the ~108 range as the dollar keeps gain strength.
Where is RoB, does he have a new name, or just quit posting all together? And what is up with these forums, seems like we lost 90% of everything since the change :\
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Oil continues to drop into the ~108 range as the dollar keeps gain strength.
Where is RoB, does he have a new name, or just quit posting all together? And what is up with these forums, seems like we lost 90% of everything since the change :\
Funny how when the price per barrel goes up we immediately see the prices go up at the pump. Even though those barrels purchased at those prices haven't even been processed into fuel yet.
And we are still paying about 95 cents per gallon more than last year.
Shell stations here are still chargeng about $3.89 a gallon. Course that was the labor day weekend that we just went through. Just before the weeked it jumped a good .20 cents per gallon. Funny how no one has even pumped gas for the weekend and the prices just go right on up. Doesn't matter if people even drive for the holiday or not. We could literally not use a drop of gas for a holiday weekend and we still automatically see the prices jump just before the holiday.
Funny how when the price per barrel goes up we immediately see the prices go up at the pump. Even though those barrels purchased at those prices haven't even been processed into fuel yet.
How is that funny? An expected increase in production cost has to be balanced out in advanced to maintain production at same level. Gas prices drop too when oil prices goes down for the exact same reason. Instead of thinking what they paid to produce the gas you purchased you need to think of what they have to pay to replace the gas sold to you.
That's exactly how the oil conglomerates see it, and of course, that's why they're knocking down $41 BILLION dollar profits in a 3 month period of time.
When they buy oil at higher prices, they adjust the price of gas as that's refined. They know exactly where each tanker of gas goes, down to which store and the street address. The prices at the pump increase as the merchant adjusts to cover what he had to pay on that gas. That's all fine and dandy. The problem comes in when they increase prices on gas they've ALREADY bought/refined cheaper to cover FUTURE costs. That's double dipping into my pocket. They're going to get the extra money they have to pay back when they deliver. It's price gouging, and it should be included in such laws instead of classified as a special category and exempt.
Astares
that's why they're knocking down $41 BILLION dollar profits in a 3 month period of time.
Wrong. Raising/Lowering price to match the current situation doesnt really change anything in the long run at all. Sometimes you lose on it, sometimes you gain from it. What you gain when price go up you lose when price goes down. Even big oil companies need stability. The gas they sell today needs to finance the gas they produce "tomorrow". Not the gas they produced 3 months ago.
The problem comes in when they increase prices on gas they've ALREADY bought/refined cheaper to cover FUTURE costs.
Why is that a problem? How would they otherwise be able to handle cover the costs? If anything the stability keeps the prices down. So i dont see why youre complaining in first place.
I dont see you complaining about "instant" price drops either. But as i said. Even oilcompanies have budgets to even out. If theres an expected increase in costs then one has to start working on that asap by charging more for the product. How much they spent to produce it is totally irrelevant. Either way you as the consumer will pay for the increased cost. Dont see why lagging prices are to be preferred over the opposite.
I cannot remember it being so cheap $3.89 is not so bad. The average price of a gallon benzine in the Netherlands is $8.30.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds
Hmmm - a gallon of bactine will cast you like $125 US
sorry I typed benzine but I should have typed petrol. The stuff that makes your car go. The price I wrote is for regular 95, super 98 is a bit more expensive.
Yea but the TRUE price of gas in the US is well over $8 a gallon. We just don't pay it at the pump but instead out of our tax dollars.
Thats a pure falsehood. Prices do not go down as quickly as they go up. And when the prices do come down it is always still more than starting prices before they went up.Quote:
How is that funny? An expected increase in production cost has to be balanced out in advanced to maintain production at same level. Gas prices drop too when oil prices goes down for the exact same reason. Instead of thinking what they paid to produce the gas you purchased you need to think of what they have to pay to replace the gas sold to you.
You keep using this 'They have to replace the gas they just sold to you' line. So what you are saying is they have do double-dip in the profits? They are already making a profit off the gas I just purchased and you say they need to make MORE profit off me to replace the gas?
B.S. The profit they make on gas sold today is ALREADY a profit to them.
Could you explain that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds
I think people in the US are always whining over the petrol prizes but refuse to drive anything other then huge trucks that do 1 mile to the gallon. 35mile to the gallon is possible for a small car and 20mile to the gallon for a family car.
I just think it is sad that retarded cars like the BMW X5, Porsche Cayennne, Audi Q8 etc have become popular here as well. I think it would be a lot better if oil prices doubled. So people would become more conscious of there consumption.
Thats a pure falsehood. Prices do not go down as quickly as they go up. And when the prices do come down it is always still more than starting prices before they went up.
Well, you cant neglect the long term prognosis either. My main point is still just as valid.
So what you are saying is they have do double-dip in the profits?
No, but they need a steady cash flow to be able to operate. When their costs increase they need to increase the price. Selling away their stock at a low price before changing the costs will basically just hurt the consumers in the end since more instability requires higher margins overall to compensate.
They are already making a profit off the gas I just purchased and you say they need to make MORE profit off me to replace the gas?
Yes, obviously they do. What the gas costs when produced is of little relevance compared to its worth when its sold. If you had bought 100 gallons when prices was at 70% of what they are today would you have sold them at that price or todays price?
B.S. The profit they make on gas sold today is ALREADY a profit to them.
As an isolated event yes, but since they ahve to keep producing gas for you they need to cover the increased production costs today aswell which means they have to increase the price today for the production that takes place tomorrow. As i said earlier youd probably end up paying more money overall if it wasnt like this anyway.
Uhh dude, all business needs steady cash flow. But you do not see other industries pulling the same crap.Quote:
No, but they need a steady cash flow to be able to operate. When their costs increase they need to increase the price.
It is not increased production costs. It is speculation on the oil market that drives the prices up. And they do with the profits they made and the profits they WILL make. Over 4 billion in profits...Quote:
As an isolated event yes, but since they ahve to keep producing gas for you they need to cover the increased production costs today aswell which means they have to increase the price today for the production that takes place tomorrow.
Capitalism in action baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds
Uhh dude, all business needs steady cash flow. But you do not see other industries pulling the same crap.
ORLY? Id say its just about the same everywhere from food to metals.
It is speculation on the oil market that drives the prices up.
Which increases the cost/unit of produced gas. On the supplier side its a simple matter of maximizing profits through supply/demands juiced up by cartels.
How many times have those other industries been under investigation for price gouging? Your in the minority if you don't think there is price manipulation going on.Quote:
ORLY? Id say its just about the same everywhere from food to metals.
Yep. Price gouging. Thanks for making my point. :)Quote:
On the supplier side its a simple matter of maximizing profits through supply/demands juiced up by cartels.
Well is it a bad thing if prices are being manipulated? If so who should intervene? I just read that some banker in the US made $1.7 billion in 1 day speculating with fannie mae and freddy mac stocks or bonds. Not sure how he did it. But is that any worst? Earning million/billions while other people get kicked out of there because they have a mortgage the bank talked them in taking. The banks knew they would be backed up by the US government so they willingly made very risky loans to people they knew that could not really afford it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds
Yep, and we should have never bailed them out. Again, under the Republicans. It's government looking out for Big Business.
And Yes it is a bad thing. The *people* get screwed. And THAT is supposed to be whom our government is working for.
Do I think the Democrats are going to change this overnight? No. But I see Barak O'Bama as a start in the right direction. McCain is in bed now with the Republican Party and is no Maverick. He use to be but not anymore sadly. The Republican Party is the party of 'Old money' and that will not change.
Your in the minority if you don't think there is price manipulation going on.
Well, OPEC itself ensures that. I still dont see anything wrong with covering future costs with todays sales. Everyone does that one way or another and either way the customer has to pay. Not paying for that would mean paying for instability and that would prob. end up costing you more.
Thanks for making my point
Which has "nothing" to do with the price at the gas station.
010101
Well is it a bad thing if prices are being manipulated?
Yes.
If so who should intervene?
the State <3
The problem I have is that many of us support capitalism until it starts to cost us money. We want a small government that doesn't intervene with the market until banks that to go bankrupt. I am not saying that I like high prices I am saying that we should accept the consequences of a capitalistic market. We let the big companies get rich and powerful, they produce crap quality goods that we buy in abundance for as long as we can afford and even beyond that. But when the **** we make ourself hits the fan we look towards the government to take action.
But RAKIdaRHINO what should the goverment do?
The problem I have is that many of us support capitalism until it starts to cost us money.
Price manipulation has no place in a capitalistic system. Perhaps thats why?
Im not really pro-capitalism though since in my opinion the capitalistic system is based on "ideals" as utopic as the communist one.
But RAKIdaRHINO what should the goverment do?
The Gov. should regulate the market to prevent such false-play from happening. It should also regulate information flow and aid the consumer to make good choices on the market.
more things aswell ofc, but in short.
Yes it does. Price manipulation does effect gas prices at the pump.Quote:
Which has "nothing" to do with the price at the gas station.
Yeah, thats why i said nothing. What i ment was that OPEC fixing the prices doesnt change that the gas prices will go up when oil price goes up..
anyway tired of chewing the same food over and over..
no need to keep it going.
I just get worked-up over a few subjects is all. I may not know everything but I know when I'm getting screwed. :)
The Republican party has three major backers, the religious right, small business, and financial types.
Ever since Slick Willie rented out the Lincoln bedroom, Big Business has strong ties to both parties. Big Business likes big government. Freezes out the smaller competition.
Don't confuse the government bail out of banks as helping big business. The stock holders of those companies will not see much of anything back on their investment. And management? Time to dust off that resume. Btw, would you hire somebody that just lost a few billion dollars in a quarter?
You forgot big business, big oil and the private military contractors. :)
Hate to break it to you but big oil and military contractors will always be in with the government no matter whos elected.They have no party affiliation.Same with all governments.
Greed and Politics go hand in hand.
Most gas stations now dont set their prices themselves. If you know a manager of 1 ask them who sets it and who do they call for it.If you have a local Walmart near that sells gas they will have the number on speed dial.They cant compete with Walmart who doesnt care if they make a profit on gas.So most other stations have to roll with that price also to compete.
Then please go see who's campaign the big oil and military contractors are sending money to. Again not that hard to research for yourself. I shouldn't have to do it for you.Quote:
Hate to break it to you but big oil and military contractors will always be in with the government no matter whos elected.They have no party affiliation.Same with all governments.
Greed and Politics go hand in hand.
Some politicians are more greedy than others.
Actually that depends on who you listen to doesnt it. Both camps will say the same thing and even the News media is the same way.Fox will say one thing and someone else the exact opposite.
What you need to research instead of trying to play party lines BS is that this isnt new. Its been going on for years and will continue no matter if Obama ,McCain or anyone else gets in office.Policiians say what the sheep they lead want to hear and hope a few on the fence agree also.
Even worse they dont run much since Congress makes almost all dicisions and they go hand in hand with the same people.Why do you think these people support the presidents. They have all thru congress.All politicians are greedy and make every cent they can. If you dont believe that your foolish.
So you want cheap oil basically? Well maybe I over simplify things, but I just get annoyed the people in the US are whining that they have to pay a few $ more at the gas pump. Gas is still rather cheap in the US and people still drive hummers ford 350 etc. So first get some fuel economic cars/trucks the get decents gas prices $5.50 a gallon. Then we will talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAKIdaRHINO
We pay over $8 per gallon. We just don't pay it all at the pump. You have to include the tax dollars used to protect shipping lanes and all that lovely stuff that the American people fund through taxes.Quote:
So you want cheap oil basically? Well maybe I over simplify things, but I just get annoyed the people in the US are whining that they have to pay a few $ more at the gas pump. Gas is still rather cheap in the US and people still drive hummers ford 350 etc. So first get some fuel economic cars/trucks the get decents gas prices $5.50 a gallon. Then we will talk.
You also have to remember. Here in the US the cost of purchasing a home is much cheaper in the Suburbs than in the cities. So most people in the US have to drive at least 30 miles to get to work and back. Our country is also severely lacking in Public Transportation.
A little repost for you.
For better or worse, America is a nation on wheels. To get where they need to go, 90 percent of Americans say they usually drive, reporting an average of 87 minutes a day behind the wheel. For car commuters, it's an average of 100 minutes; for parents with children at home, an average of 104 minutes (compared with 77 minutes for people without kids at home).
The UK's car-addicted commuters face the longest average travelling times to work in Europe, according to figures released today by motoring organisation the RAC Foundation. At 45 minutes per day, the UK average is almost twice that of Italy.
As you can see we have double if not a little more than double in commute times in the US compared to the longest commute times in Europe.
BTW: I see more F-Jammers in the US than Hummers and they still only get like 15mpg on the highway. 10mpg in the city. And the ones driving them obviously don't worry about gas prices.
I have. That's why I know who's funding who's campaign. :) I am NOT a Democrat or a Republican. I do not blindly follow some party line. I see who is getting money from where.Quote:
What you need to research instead of trying to play party lines BS is that this isnt new.
you know I just remembered some little political detail about Washington state.Quote:
I have. That's why I know who's funding who's campaign. :) I am NOT a Democrat or a Republican. I do not blindly follow some party line. I see who is getting money from where.
Care to explain your views on immigration swirvin?
The level of competition determines how fast prices change in response to a change in costs. If gas stations can keep overcharging people after a drop in costs then it's a reasonable conclusion that there is insufficient competition in the market, either due to cartels, a lack of actors or lack of information.
Would be interesting with sources on that.Quote:
I have. That's why I know who's funding who's campaign. :) I am NOT a Democrat or a Republican. I do not blindly follow some party line. I see who is getting money from where.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008...ward-mcca.html
Well there's one source for you.
Now what you have to do here is read between the lines. McCain received the Corporate money while O'Bama received 'private' money from employees of Big Oil. So the Article is trying to mislead you a little.
I'll find more if you want but I have to goto work right now. I'm sure you could handle a web search if you really wanted to. :)
010101
So you want cheap oil basically?
Not really? What makes you say that?
Im talking about a state regulated market to ensure fair play. That itself doesnt make oil cheap or expensive, just ensures fair play. Im not in the US either. People in US rarely call out to the state to do anything for them ;p
But yeah.. there are cars 4-5x as fuel efficient as the ones people drive. And yet they ***** and moan about gas prices.. sure everyone cant buy a new car just like that. But if you buy a new fuel drinking monster well.. SELF BURNED.
Just wanted to make a quick comment. Oil prices down 37%. Prices at the pump down 5%.
I don't think it is fair to include all those other taxes, our tax systems are to different from that. Cars in the US are also a lot cheaper then in the Netherlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin' Birds
Isn't that true everywhere? I just got a mortgage of €250.000 to buy a 1290 ft2 house in a suburb. This house needs new wiring, new kitchen etc etc. I don't know US house prices.Quote:
You also have to remember. Here in the US the cost of purchasing a home is much cheaper in the Suburbs than in the cities. So most people in the US have to drive at least 30 miles to get to work and back. Our country is also severely lacking in Public Transportation.
I just moved but I commuted to, it took me between 30 minutes and 1hour + to get to my work, same when I went home. It was about 16-18mile drive each time. I don't have any statistics for the Dutch. Never heard of the term F-Jammers. But isn't the fact the the US is a nation on wheel not in it's self disturbing? and that as long as it is true the gas prices are not a real issue because people will drive anyway?Quote:
A little repost for you.
For better or worse, America is a nation on wheels. To get where they need to go, 90 percent of Americans say they usually drive, reporting an average of 87 minutes a day behind the wheel. For car commuters, it's an average of 100 minutes; for parents with children at home, an average of 104 minutes (compared with 77 minutes for people without kids at home).
The UK's car-addicted commuters face the longest average travelling times to work in Europe, according to figures released today by motoring organisation the RAC Foundation. At 45 minutes per day, the UK average is almost twice that of Italy.
As you can see we have double if not a little more than double in commute times in the US compared to the longest commute times in Europe.
BTW: I see more F-Jammers in the US than Hummers and they still only get like 15mpg on the highway. 10mpg in the city. And the ones driving them obviously don't worry about gas prices.
I'll get to others later. Just home on lunch. I am all for LEGAL immigration. Against ILLEGAL immigration. In case you forget, All Americans (Excluding Native Americans) including Canada are immigrants. I'm 3rd generation American from Norway/Sweden.Quote:
Care to explain your views on immigration swirvin?
Swirvin Birds
Just wanted to make a quick comment. Oil prices down 37%. Prices at the pump down 5%.
Oil price isnt the only factor behind the gas price though. Secondly the price of today is far less important than the future price estimations are. For instance, oil price went up today, still we had the largest price drop in years.. just looking at the oil price is retarded, you have to take the whole economic situation into consideration.
Youre hardly legal immigrants either.. you gave yourself the right to immigrate, so are they.. i dont think the indians approved of your immigration more than you approve of the border jumpers of today ^^
No, My grandfather/grandmother came from Scandinavia in 1908. I did goof, I'm 2nd generation. I was counting my grandfather since he came over when he was 18. They had nothing to do with that period in American history.
So you think we need to just go back in time?
How about the counties of Europe just allow any other European or middle eastern country just walk right on in. Open up the boarders of the world because at one time or another some piece of land somewhere was claimed by someone else. Didn't the Franks at one time hold a large portion of Europe? Or how about the Mongols, The Vikings... Hey, I'm part Norwegian. I should be able to just walk right into Norway and do whatever the hell I want.
How about we give these Native American tribes back all their land here in the US and then they can fight amongst themselves about which tribe had conquered which other tribes lands and so on and so forth...
How about homeland security?? All for some cheap farm labor that sucks money out of the US economy and sent to the Mexican Economy? No thanks.