New War System

Current war system is broken mainly because its to easy to avoid wars. My mixed races, non top/ ranked kingdom can't get anyone to war no matter what. We spent a whole month waving 3 kingdoms a day, sending out mass messages, changing our kingdom name to Msg 4 War, and no one would play with us. We even have been waving kingdoms way better than us who still take a dozen hits go ehh who cares and ignore us. Also we tried being mean and hitting the same kingdom continually for a week, still no war.

Never in the history of the the world real or imaginary have 2 kingdoms gotten together and said halo chap lets have a war, good idea mate and then declared war. So i say eliminate that aspect and make it more realistic.

Have option to declare war on kingdoms within 95%-150% your size. Immediatly upon declaration defending kingdom is more prepared being on the defensive and has a 50% bonus to def military strength, thievery and magic. So basically they dont have to fight back and can sit pretty safe and tight. Every hit/10 ops the defending kingdom makes brings down the bonus by 10%. This gives the defending kingdom a good bonus at the start of the war which might give them a reason to fight back since they start the war at an advantage. Kingdom declared upon's monarch then has a choice during first 12 horus of declaration, go to war or suffer consequence. Kingdom A has declared war on you, fight back or submit. If you submit you immediatly lose 5% honor and 5% land to the declaring kingdom. (more honor than actually winning a war because you were more cowardly) Declaring kingdom has option to keep or destroy land sent to them in tribute. Kingdoms submitted and times you have submitted are tallied on kingdom page next to war wins. Reason for this is if you run and hide constantly, itll be posted on your kingdom page and super kingdoms will constantly be declaring on you to pick up an easy 5% honor. If you have very few submissions or none, kingdoms will know you want to war. Thus finding war targets for kingdoms who actually want to war will be much easier. My kingdom would only declare kingdoms with few to no submissions because it means they are more likely to war us isntead of wasting our times on kingdoms that submit constantly.

Results of this system=
1.) Extreme abuse. Networth kingdoms would constnatnly be declaring on weaker kingdoms to collect their land (but suprise they have to be 95% your size so they might just fight back). Big honor kingdoms would collect tons of honor by constantly submitting kingdoms. True, only way i can think of to counter is to make kingdoms you can declare on also have to be within a certain honor range 75-125% maybe, not sure about this though. Or maybe if kingdom is outside that honor range submitting isnt as dishonorable and they lose no honor or land, just get the tally.

2.) Server in chaos- there would be big and fast changes in networth, land, honor

3.) More wars

4.) More fun

As i posted above this system is extremely abusable, if you dont like it try posting possible abuses that i missed and fixes for them, or your own war system to fix this incredibly boring system we currently have.

You can't really war someone who absolutely does not want to war you. A simple solution to oow retal wars is to give both kingdoms the button at hostile/hostile.

Thus the Submit option

I like the old system better.
But this is not bad,cept the honor thing,work that out and youle have a decent war system.
Anything would be better than the one we have now.

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Never in the history of the the world real or imaginary have 2 kingdoms gotten together and said halo chap lets have a war, good idea mate and then declared war. So i say eliminate that aspect and make it more realistic.

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Arguments of realism have no bearing on this game.

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Declaring kingdom has option to keep or destroy land sent to them in tribute.

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Absolutely not. There is no reason to further encourage landdropping honour KDs.

IMO this change helps the best KDs too much, on the other hand it'd be nice if war played a bigger part again. I'd say any suggestion about changes to war needs to fix the fact that you can hardly do any damage in war and that it is so easy to abuse with FWs.

True arguments of realism dumb my bad, The destroying land thing was just to help, if you were declaring multiple times a day and getting submitted to but that can be thrown out since the 5% land gain would stop you from declaring so often which would help prevent growth abuse. I did state this would be abused which is why i asked for suggestions to make it more realistic, and i disagree on not being able to do any real damage in war. I've seen kingdoms dropped 20% of their networth in 48 hours. 50% of a kingdoms networth destroyed in 4-5 days. So wars are damaging enough, just need a better way to get them.

Sure you can do damage to a KD but there is no way in which you can make a province stop hitting. A war can go on for ever even if you manage to drop a KD to 50% of their NW.

If you want abuse there's no doubt that top KDs would use this system to gather honour quickly early in order to help them grow later on, I don't really see any way around that as long as you keep the "can declare on anyone" system.

I'm wondering how you intend to implement this though, what parts of the current relations system would still be in place?

Edit: and obviously you need to make sure that you can't just declare the same KD over and over again.

INGAME WAR FINDING

How about an "Apply for War" feature.

Monarch gets a button in KD page that says "Apply for War"

Once pressed, his KD goes on a list together with other KDs that have also applied. The list can be accessed from "The World" link. The monarch can cancel his KD's status at anytime.

Makes war finding easier. Current war system remains the same. This feature is to complement the existing one, NOT to replace it.


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To encourage its' use, kingdoms listed suffer a -5% penalty to defense but does not lose honour until war starts.

How about just removing the stupid declare and let actions themselves determine whether or not a hostility escalates into war or not... and bring back peace-blocks

I don't think the proposal is useful as is, but there are some very good ideas to work on. Maybe bring back hostile declaration instead, as that's basically what you're doing.

A few suggestions:
1) Limit declaration to 1 per week or something like that, so you can't just go declare a bunch of weak kingdoms around you
2) If you submit to a kingdom, it should be followed by a 2-week CF

However, what keeps you from doing a full wave and then declaring war? Since that way you dodge the 50% defense bonus. That bit isn't thought out.

Sorry forgot to mention that obviously cant declare kingdom over and over that would be incredibly abusable of course.
You could do a full wave and then declare war, but you dont have access to any in war, spells/ops or the reduced attack time, increased military strength of war, or honor gains of war. And, yes this system is pretty similar to the hostile declaring system of old but since utopia doesnt respond to hey make it like it used to be cause that was better very often thought i'd make it a little different to see if i could get a response :)

Oh and thanks for finding abuses guys ;)

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but you dont have access to any in war, spells/ops

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You get access to those after declaring, so you just wave/declare/do ops and spells

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reduced attack time

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You have Aggressive stance instead, and you don't get the war reduction immediately anyway

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increased military strength of war

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No such thing

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or honor gains of war

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They start out minor anyway, and no way they'll match +50% defense

Again, I think your general approach is good but current proposal not workable as is.

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Originally Posted by pokey1

Thus the Submit option

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ah yes, I missed this. apologies...

Stop whining.

If you can't get wars, it's because your leadership sucks, or you seem like a horribly boring to battle kingdom.

Current system works fine, except that if both kingdoms get to hostile, both should have a button to declare war.

Massacre attacks should be changed: in wars it's now you killed x noobs within that province,we also destroyed 123 buildings

Why does it destroy buildings??? that's make raze attacks useless,and personally
i just wanna get rid of the thieves and wizards with massacre hit not buildings! destroying buildings simple takes enemys networth down too much and after that you loose tons of honor cause of massacred prov can easy topfeed all the way...

Current war system:

>>!Noob kd have declared war with our kingdom!!
followed by 25 hits and a dragon<< thats the problem,current stupid instant declare war just gives the other kd too much advantage if they know what their doing

new stance : warfare .

in that stance you have 12h before you can declare immediately war on some1.
but you could get declared meanwhile of range 90%-110% .
after you beeing that stance 48h your range increasing. you could get declared from 80%-120% .

KD:s in that change get several penalties from hitting KD:s wich are other stance than Warfare. but they also get few plusses from those other stance Kd:s.

to avoid that only superwarring KD:susing this to grow and feed smaller Kd:s .

no exploring, no paradising and book/ gold production are halved.( until its war )
you dont need those, you dont need attacks to declare KD, you are ready for war when entering warfare.
fake wars could be problem, too easy? more penalties ?

If there is not any KD in your range at the time, game should give a msg about it to monarch. then you are immediately free to move back to other stances.

KD:s war from that stance gets additional created honor from attacks.

this not enclose other stances ability to go wars as currently.

I decided to keep this sug in this thread, blame me for that.
This could make wars easier.
and extra honor gains maybe also luring too, that is the problem often. whats good from destruction?

Forcing wars is massively abusable. Declare war on a ghetto, farm their honor, land drop, repeat and rince.

Regardless, I've never had problems finding wars. My kingdom has wanted to war 4 times this age, and we got the 4 wars we wanted against the kingdoms we wanted to war. Most of the times people can't find wars because they hit into much weaker kingdoms (size do not matter) or refuse to grow to fight a better competition.

I don't have a problem with the current system.

It rewards clever risk assessment and diplomacy by sending lots of war invites to kingdom of similar strength (meaning they are likely to accept).

It forces you to find a good match.

I've perfected the method to an art form and can finding myself a decent war within 2 days of searching.

In my experience, if the match is good, they'll agree to war you as most KDs like a challenge (but are not so suicidal that they'd agree to enter in a war that they are way more than 50% likely to lose).

If you can't find a war, its because you don't take enough risks by challenging KDs of comparable strength.

The only KDs I see having a legitimate reason to complain about troubles finding a war are the top 1%.

I mean, why could there not be a option for a single province to submit, after he/she can't be touched in a war? Enough of individual provinces to submit, and the war would be lost.

>I mean, why could there not be a option for a single province to submit, after he/she can't be touched in a war? Enough of individual provinces to submit, and the war would be lost.<

Not sure how relevant it is with the topic at end which addresses the issue of how wars start rather than what happens once you're in a war.

However, I agree that decentralizing the power for surrendering might be a good idea.

At the very least, don't give a monarch the surrender button until most provinces (independant of honor voting bonus) have given the 'ok' for it. It will take some of the heat off the backs of monarchs as I find some less experienced KDs tend to deliberately gang on the monarch early on thinking that he will panic and make concessions.

And in the case where the monarch is a coward (more likely to happen in newer KDs), at least the KD won't be as harshly penalized for it (as he won't be able to surrender at will).

Magn, that is retarded imo. The monarch is already the elected leader of the kingdom, as such he is more than able to make that decision by himself. If you dont like the decisions of your leader pick a new one.

As for single province surrender im fine with it as long as it comes with a ~24h "rapemewhileidonothing" penalty.. Thing is, something like that shouldnt be needed within the game, nor do i really believe that it will benefit the kds you seek to benefit. If you dont like your kd defect, if you dont like your leader elect another one, if your kd goes to war youre in it together.

(oh and yeah, you can usually just do diplo as a single province with the other side to get them to leave you alone.. i was rogue my first few ages and did that alot.. sold my kd out hard cause i thought that was what rogues did =D lovely interpretation of the guide fur shure)

(oh and yeah #2, i somehow thought you needed 1 home / 25 pes aswell so i ran a ****-ton of homes.. that prov was fkn ftw when i look back at it.. elf/rogue attacker :D.. oh and yeah, my monarch was LittleGreenMen well.. thats the only thing of him i remember.. so if anyone know who im talkin about lemme know :D)

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Originally Posted by Kine

INGAME WAR FINDING

How about an "Apply for War" feature.

Monarch gets a button in KD page that says "Apply for War"

Once pressed, his KD goes on a list together with other KDs that have also applied. The list can be accessed from "The World" link. The monarch can cancel his KD's status at anytime.

Makes war finding easier. Current war system remains the same. This feature is to complement the existing one, NOT to replace it.


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To encourage its' use, kingdoms listed suffer a -5% penalty to defense but does not lose honour until war starts.

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this is a good suggestion.