Please help me with Elf A/M build

Hey guys, I haven't got much experience playing utopia - I played one age as DE/Mystic and one age as EL/Mystic. Me = noob.

The current age in WoL I've been playing EL/Mystic A/M but I've learnt that it isn't practical to cast high cost spells like MS all the time during war because of rune shortages. Economy has also been tricky.

I want advice on how to improve things for next age. I want to remain an Elf A/M.

My build is:
Homes:20%
Farms: 7%
Banks: 15%
Training Grounds: 16%
Guilds:12%
Towers: 15%
Thieves' Dens: 15%

I run 2.5 tpa, 3.5 wpa & 65% DR

What do I need to fix & would it be better for me to run Artisan over Mystic for A/M?

it is not wise to sacrafise military strength for economy. u r better off running 0% banks and get some stable/fort with those 15%

also if u r gonna run 65% draft and keep 3.5 raw wpa u r gonna die. u really dont wanna keep less than 8 peasant per acre... so 60% draft is as high as u can push it assuming lord honor and ~6% pop sci (i would personally go for 57% but thats just my own style)

dont try to play a/t/m, u'll get pwned if u face any decent player. instead of keeping 2.5 raw tpa, just keep 1~1.5 and get 10% WT instead

u also have too few guilds (even as mystic). u cant afford to waste mana on self spells, so u gotta make each one count, plus take consideration of incoming land. also guild % affects the length of duration spells u cast on ur enemies as well

this is the building i would recommend (ill keep ur high homes and no rax cuz i assume that fits ur style):

20% homes
7% farms
18% TG
7% forts
15% guilds
15% towers
10% WT
8% stables


assuming u have 29 pop per acre (lord honor with ~6% housing sci, combined with his 20% homes), and keep 1.4 raw tpa, u'll have approximately 47~48 mod dpa (full elites out), 70~75 mod opa, 3.5 raw wpa and a little above 8 peasants per acre. if u keep 57% draft u'll have ~45 mod dpa, 65~70 mod opa and almost 9 peasants per acre with the same wpa and tpa

what elite:def spec ratios are you assuming?
I currently run 3 elites: 2 def specs...

im assuming u r using elites for offense and no off specs

for defense elite and def specs are the same value so it wont make a difference

at 29 ppa and 60% draft with 1.4 tpa, it gives 16 military troops per acre (not including thief). if u put 8 on offense and 8 on defense, thats 8 x 5 x 1.2 (assume 120% DME, pretty safe assumption with 200% pay, 7% forts and MP casted) = 48 mod tpa. for offense, its ((8 x 6) + 5) x 1.35 (8% stables give 5 horses per acre, or 5 raw opa per acre. 135% OME is a pretty standard assumption if u keep 18% TG, 200% pay and have honor bonus even if u dont include generals) = 71.55 mod opa

of course those # are ideal, in reality u r not gonna face an opponent with ur province nice and shiny like that. but the same can be said for all other races as well

as for the 29 pop per acre, a province has 25 raw pop per acre. with 20% homes its 26.6 pop per acre. lord gives 2%. assume 7% housing sci, thats 26.6 x 1.02 x 1.07 = 29.03. if u have baron honor u'll have 29.6 pop per acre

if you have the time to pump don't use the mystic personality. as like you said is not practical for casting MS, so dont.

you can mage just fine with ~3 raw wpa if you only casting storms/greed/pf etc.

I've been implementing the suggestions by waheed (which were very good btw) and I've gotten pretty close to 100% BE (with my current sci included; not completely finished conversions but close).

Comparing the benefits of the current build given by waheed between mystic and artisan personalities - I'm strongly leaning towards artisan.

This makes me wonder if I can shave some % off towers & farms...

With artisan what is minimum farm % I can safely get away with and where should I shift the building % to?

I wouldnt drop farms below 8% unless you have a fair bit of science in there, incase you get hit with Vermin/drought/no runes for FL+NB all the time.

I definitely wouldnt reduce towers as an arti, or its pointless being Arti ;)

I invest considerably in food science. I can manage 7% farms with ~50% food science bonus; but, as I plan to be artisan I imagine I could run far lower farms than this.

My intention to reduce tower % (with artisan personality) is to have the same supply of runes I would have as mystic personality with a lower percentage of buildings dedicated to this building type. I invest greatly in rune production sci.
This doesn't make artisan pointless; it gives me the opportunity to increase my building % to other areas.

I have been able to manage sufficiently on this amount of runes this age.

As far I can see on angel, 12% towers with artisan is roughly equal to 15% towers with mystic...

So your taking a personality, to free up around 3% acres from towers and 2% acres from farms?

I can think of some personalities that will be giving you more benefit than 5% more land.

IMO only go Artisan if you plan on taking towers, homes, then maybe stables/dungeons reasonably high, so you actually make use of it.

You shouldnt be taking a personality as a bandaid, thats like being a warrior so you dont have to run any rax or merchant so you can drop banks and lower homes. Its just crazy :P

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Originally Posted by Ishandra

So your taking a personality, to free up around 3% acres from towers and 2% acres from farms?

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That's the gist of it.
I was thinking of modifying the build strategy provided by waheed to this:
20% homes
5% farms
20% TG
8% forts
15% guilds
12% towers
10% WT
10% stables

Quote:

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I can think of some personalities that will be giving you more benefit than 5% more land.

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I would welcome your suggestions.
Tbh I'm not sure of what other alternatives are available for me to run with this race and my playing preferences (A/M).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjt207

I would welcome your suggestions.
Tbh I'm not sure of what other alternatives are available for me to run with this race and my playing preferences (A/M).

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please tell me you are joking...

warrior -> less rax
merchant -> less banks
sage -> more pop sci, less homes

and the MOST obvious choice for an A/M... mystic
that would save you 7.5% immediately with 15% guilds =)

(btw, when did mystic loose its +20% rune production?)

As greenie said.
If you really want to play A/M with elf, you could stict to mystic, or warrior/merchant/sage would be a fair pick too.

If i really want to play A/M, i would pick dark elf tough, elf a/m is mainly for pitfalls imo.

I currently am playing elf mystic; but, as I said earlier in this thread it hasn't been practical for me to use MS on a regular basis during wars so I was seeking advice different personality/build choices for improvement.

just cause you cant do MS constantly doesnt mean you shouldnt go mystic...
otherwise i would say sage or merchant would be your best pics =)

Sage might end up being better as you can get increased rune production from sciences as well as achieving higher mod wpa/tpa.

Also better food, income, etc etc. Just means you need to invest some money in science from the get go to make it worthwhile.

Mystic hasnt had 20% rune production in the last 2 ages, not sure before that.










By the sounds of it your looking to be A/m, rather than A/M. If you wanted M you'd be using FB/Tornadoes if you didnt have MS, in which case Arti would work but you'd need 20% towers to perform. It could be done but you'll be losing some military buildings.

If your running TD and Mystic, wouldnt you be better suited to being T/M at the minute also? Drop the TG for some forts and more towers and your there.

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Sage might end up being better as you can get increased rune production from sciences as well as achieving higher mod wpa/tpa

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I think I will end up with either a sage or artisan personality.
How would the sage build differ from what I currently have?

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By the sounds of it your looking to be A/m, rather than A/M. If you wanted M you'd be using FB/Tornadoes if you didnt have MS, in which case Arti would work but you'd need 20% towers to perform. It could be done but you'll be losing some military buildings.

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FB and timed spells are what I usually employ.
I think I agree with you about the A/m bit, since I would prefer to be a more capable attacker than mage, not the other way around.

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If your running TD and Mystic, wouldnt you be better suited to being T/M at the minute also? Drop the TG for some forts and more towers and your there.

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That strategy was test to see if I could manage A/M/t as an elf.
It didn't work that well and resulted in me being more an a/M/T which wasn't hugely effective with my playing style.
I might try T/M if there is an availability in the kd.

Thanks for the advice, cheers.

If your running Artisan you run Homes and Banks to fix your economy or Stables and (Dungeons). Them he saves on Farms, Guilds and Towers. He's actually saving around ten to fifteen percent buildings. Try to fit banks within your build to get the extra cash

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjt207

I think I will end up with either a sage or artisan personality.
How would the sage build differ from what I currently have?

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If your build is still:
Homes:20%
Farms: 7%
Banks: 15%
Training Grounds: 16%
Guilds:12%
Towers: 15%
Thieves' Dens: 15%

2.5 tpa, 3.5 wpa & 65% DR

And you were going Sage A/m, I'd drop the TD for some forts and towers. Also drops the homes until later into the age when you are drafted and have some pop science. The rest can stay similar. You'll achieve higher tpa/wpa into the age so later in you can swap to T/M if you wanted to, or a/T/M if strong enough, by dropping the TG for TD/forts. Put science into income, then channeling, food, BE, housing. If you are swapping to T/M get some thievery. You'll want science on the 3rd setting at least, so pump income science heavily so you can afford to do it.

If you wanted to go A/M right away as Artisan, I would drop the TD to get towers to 20%, up guilds to 15%. Lower homes some for some stables to keep your A strong. Put any science into income, food, channelling, BE, then housing, but keep it on the 2nd setting at most until you have built up your miltary.





I personally prefer Forts over TG, but that is preference. If your actively attacking TG is probably better for you but if you do start leaning towards ops more than attacks definitely get some Forts. When your turtled with elites home they will make a big difference and if you can be unbreakable in war you can sit back and just op them to bits, hitting only suiciders.

I am an elf/artisan a/m.

I am currently 3k+ acres, with 2.0 TPA and a current wpa of 1.6(I'm recooping from war).
-- sci is 10%+ income, 6% tools, and housing, 50% food, channeling and crime. War is 9.3.
-- I use def specs, then an almost 2:1 leet: off spec ratio. In war I only train off and def specs.

--my build:
homes 20%
farms 5%+
TG's 11%+
forts 13%+
guilds 11%+
towers 11%+
wt's 16%
Libs 6% (enough for a 10% boost to all sciences)

I'm trying to eliminate banks from my mix. There are only 4%+ left. My income is: Daily Income: 84,790gc.

I am strong enough mage to get drought, greed, pitfalls on all in my range in war. I am a medium strength attacker, but can pack a punch if attacking anyom. In war, my peasant base is strong enough to be chained, and they usually give up after 3-4 attacks.

Greed, pitfalls, and drought don't make you A/M.

I think he meant A/m, but even then I wouldnt except much with 1.6 wpa. Either those WT came in after some AW or he's taken quite a bit of land, in which case he's not a bad Attacker at least!

Drought, Greed and Piftalls are attacker spells. You do not need a high WPA to pull these on a regular basis. A/M should be used for the most difficult spells only, not for the easy ones.

The 11% Training Grounds / 13% Forts does not make any sense. Unless you are running more defense than offense, which also does not make any sense anyways.

But well, with 20% Homes and the worst personality, you cannot do much.

In my Opinion running 2.5 tpa is to much for you especialy if you plan to run 3.5 wpa. Keep in mind that Elves get clearsight, you could get by with 1 tpa and clearsight on, not saying that that would be better then 2.5 raw tpa but keep in mind that every 1 tpa=6opa or 5dpa gone, and thats not factoring military bonuses.

In my opinion try your strat out in Genesis since its not as tough and co-ordinated as WoL.

Two quick questions:

Do homes make it easier to over-pop a province during a chain?

Ditto for high pop science, does that increase the ease of over-pop?

Not really, because your losing the same % of homes as the % of any other buildings so your max pop will go down by the same % as your acres do. Running high hosps make it easier to overpop.

Homes make your more vulnerable to over pop via greater arson if they are targetted though, although Artisan will protect you somewhat from that.

but if you go art for the building protection from GA, then, well, you're probably up against some rather poor kd's

NS >>>> GA

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Originally Posted by waheed

im assuming u r using elites for offense and no off specs

for defense elite and def specs are the same value so it wont make a difference

at 29 ppa and 60% draft with 1.4 tpa, it gives 16 military troops per acre (not including thief). if u put 8 on offense and 8 on defense, thats 8 x 5 x 1.2 (assume 120% DME, pretty safe assumption with 200% pay, 7% forts and MP casted) = 48 mod tpa. for offense, its ((8 x 6) + 5) x 1.35 (8% stables give 5 horses per acre, or 5 raw opa per acre. 135% OME is a pretty standard assumption if u keep 18% TG, 200% pay and have honor bonus even if u dont include generals) = 71.55 mod opa

of course those # are ideal, in reality u r not gonna face an opponent with ur province nice and shiny like that. but the same can be said for all other races as well

as for the 29 pop per acre, a province has 25 raw pop per acre. with 20% homes its 26.6 pop per acre. lord gives 2%. assume 7% housing sci, thats 26.6 x 1.02 x 1.07 = 29.03. if u have baron honor u'll have 29.6 pop per acre

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My question is WHEN does switch from 100% to 200% Wage Rate? I've only been back to the game for 1 week now and I'm 800 Acres so there is still time to up the Pay?
I play DE/Shepherd and train troops to 4:4:1:1 Off:Def:Elite:Thief ratio for NW considerations. I'm trying to keep my NW low for I seem to get better land returns attacking higher NW (not verified thou). Goals are to have 45 mod Dpa and 65 Opa and 3 Tpa and 1.5 Wpa.

Actual Build:

7.1 Homes
4.5 Farms (--->4)
17 Banks
13.6 TG (--->14)
10.3 Rax
4.3 Forts (--->5)
6.3 GS
12.8 Guilds
.1 Towers (to send Rune Aid)
2.6 TD
7.1 Stables
1.2 Dungeons

What have I done wrong? Please advise on build and training.
Thank you,

NW is somewhat over-rated, its not the be all and end all of your prov, you should run elites, simply so you can run less troops on defense, and more on offense
but as a DE, you are going to need more than 45DPA....
55-60 mod D in elites, rest in o-specs should be a good mix, this will mean you can send out an extra 2-3 elites when need be and it gives you more defense when army home =)

i dont see the need for 200% PR, 150-160 is normally fine (gives ~105.5-106%ME)

Talazar: Wage rate is fairly quick to react. Going from 100 to 200% wage will raise your military efficiency by ~7.6% (i believe, might be off a little) over the course of 24 hours or so. Also run all or mostly elite defense, and less banks during war.