Question .. am I winning or losing?

Our KD has a fairly high T/M capacity. We are warring against a pure attackers kd which has ridiculously low TPA.

As expected, we were chained hard. However, our T/M ops is doing quite well in hurting them. Our gold dragon works wonder, and as we keep greed + riot + bribe generals all the time, the opposing kd is in near collapse. We are recovering ... while they are stuck without money. The enemy kd has not been able to fund a new dragon for a week now. CB and a lot of robbing attempt indicates that the total money in that kingdom is only about 500k, and the number of attack has decreased significantly (only about 2-5 attacks per day now, and will decrease soon as the time progress).

We will definitely win the war of attrition, in fact the enemy kd is already out of gas. But the problem is, we are down 40% of the total acres. While the enemy could do almost nothing anymore, we will also need a lot of time to recover the acreage loss and turn it into a gain.

It will take at least one more week for us to fully gain the land lost, probably more though since they start building some GS. And another week to get some gains ... which will make this war a 5 weeks war.

The opposite kd forced us to surrender, but we don't want it because we believe that we are winning. Do we?

Personally, if you've lost 40% acres - I'm assuming you've lost quite a bit of honor as well, but I could be wrong. But that alone is a loss in my eyes - but at the same time, if you've gotten them down to only 2-5 uniques a day, then they're probably losing morale rapidly.

Either that or they're trying to make use of those extra acres mid-war; which I would run tornadoes and massacres on them whenever you can to keep them down. Wars are a lot more economically based these days, and it definitely sounds like you got the lead with that by far. So you may be losing by numbers, but you're probably winning in reality.

What it boils down to is if you feel you've won though - you don't have to get the "war win" count to win the war. I'd just surrender, tell 'em good game and that you hope to come across them sometime in the future. Get to know 'em, I'm assuming Genesis? Ask who they are on WoL and learn their background.

are u attacking more then 2-5 times a day?... is so your winning lol

You are exposing a typical problem with nowadays wars. No offense here, but the enemy kingdom has destroyed your kingdom, and farmed your acres.

Nevertheless, it is now impossible to wipe a province out of war, so chained down provinces keep fighting for ever and ever. Now, your chained provinces are fairly pumped and probably have insane offense, allowing massive topfeeds. On the other hand, enemy provinces are now very fat, and because of the impressive land gains are stuck on low TPA and low WPA, while having weak armies left. As a result, despite losing badly, you end up in a winning position because enemy cannot do much to you anymore.

If I were you, I would just withdraw and congratulate them for the war, rebuild and move to something else. It is just not worth staying 2 more weeks in a war just to even out gains and end up for a MP.

Are you winning, hell no! The other side has beat the sh*t out of you. No question about that. However, you are not out of the fight just yet. As a pure player myself I know what your opponent's next move is. They have gain so much land from you guys that is why their tpa and wpa is so low. Now that they have gain the land they are starting to go into "pump" mode.

The smaller guys that gain a lot of land will start to build up guard stations and the bigger guys that gained a lot of land will start to build up a high amount of guilds, and armories.
The will start pumping thieves and wizards while the smaller guys hold you guys off with there guard stations. In a sense they are catching their second wind. You can not let them do this if you do your kingdom might as well throw up the white flag.

If your kingdom continues to fight it will take about another 3 weeks to get all that land if you fail no attacks and they attack back very little.

All that matters is whether you stand to gain or lose on continued warfare. If they cannot hold on to their acres, they should withdraw. I also suggest that you disregard everything vines says.

If you can win through attrition, go for it.
It usually takes a week or more, though, and isn't always worth it.

The thing here is, even if you've been farmed out of your acres, which seems to be the case, the opponent isn't really able to hold the land.
I'm assuming you're battling a large number of orcs.

If you have the feeling you are winning, then go for it!
If you have the feeling you are not with your back against the wall yet, then go for it!
If your lads still have a healthy fighting spirit, then go for it!

Those who say that you lost because the other side "owned you" by getting all those acres, are outdated.
War, dear friend is ... WAR! It's not a kind of gentleman agreement where we count xx acres after xx hours in compared CE's with or without landlust and considering exploration pools. Especially when a kd with a mixed line up fights an all attacker group.

The "acre gains" of Nazi Germany in 1942 on the European theather were enourmous but did they win the war? Don't think so...
The Axis lost in the long run due to especially economic and attrition reasons.
If I understood you well, that is what is happening?

This discussion reminds me a Monarch of an almost all out Orc kd on WoL, who tried to propose my hybrid group earlier this week "a short fun war with acre count after 48 or 72 hours". LOL

As long as the opponent didn't chain you into rubble, as long as your own lads have fighting spirit and morale, and your activity is there - I would recommend you to go for it.

Some above suggested you to withdraw. I would not if I were you. If the other side is smart, they will withdraw before losing the acres they gained. If they don't withdraw, you are probably the ones who will end up with the (regained) acres and the honour.

Last but not least. You are the one with the buttons. Your group mandated you. It is your (and your peoples) decision.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If you have the feeling you are winning, then go for it!
If you have the feeling you are not with your back against the wall yet, then go for it!
If your lads still have a healthy fighting spirit, then go for it!

Those who say that you lost because the other side "owned you" by getting all those acres, are outdated.
War, dear friend is ... WAR! It's not a kind of gentleman agreement where we count xx acres after xx hours in compared CE's with or without landlust and considering exploration pools. Especially when a kd with a mixed line up fights an all attacker group.

The "acre gains" of Nazi Germany in 1942 on the European theather were enourmous but did they win the war? Don't think so...
The Axis lost in the long run due to especially economic and attrition reasons.
If I understood you well, that is what is happening?

This discussion reminds me a Monarch of an almost all out Orc kd on WoL, who tried to propose my hybrid group earlier this week "a short fun war with acre count after 48 or 72 hours". LOL

As long as the opponent didn't chain you into rubble, as long as your own lads have fighting spirit and morale, and your activity is there - I would recommend you to go for it.

Some above suggested you to withdraw. I would not if I were you. If the other side is smart, they will withdraw before losing the acres they gained. If they don't withdraw, you are probably the ones who will end up with the (regained) acres and the honour.

Last but not least. You are the one with the buttons. Your group mandated you. It is your (and your peoples) decision.

Good luck!

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I support this entire post.

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Originally Posted by shank

I support this entire post.

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I support this entire post.

With the honor not so much; 1% of the honor is lost each real day if I'm recalling correctly; they've been at war for 5 weeks.

If Kingdom 1 started with 25,000 Honor
If Kingdom 2 started with 20,000 Honor


That's 45,000 core pooled. They're still going to generate new honor, but I don't think either KD will make up enough for what they have already lost.

1% of 25,000 for 35 times: 17,586
1% of 20,000 for 35 times: 14,068

Total Base Pool (Not including the new honor they generated): 31,655

That's a large drop.

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Originally Posted by Coruscale

With the honor not so much; 1% of the honor is lost each real day if I'm recalling correctly; they've been at war for 5 weeks.
. . . That's a large drop.

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If you are making 2 uniques per day on opponents that are even in nw to yourself you actually produce more honor than you lose. Not including ops which is where a majority of your honor will come from.

At original poster, if your kingdom is still in the mood to war then war. if you are that far ahead in t/m capabilities start taking out thier provinces one by one, drop their peasants and buildings to nothing, kill off their defenses and take that land back. Do whatever it takes to make them withdraw if they are only making 1/2 an attack per province per day and you're making 1-2 attacks per day then you can get those acres back. I highly suggest focusing building destruction ops on those GS's and just take out the GS's before you attack for acres.

I assume this is in genesis where 5 attacks per day might actually be reasonable for 6 province to be making.

If there's only 2-5 attacks per day you're both losing.

The issue is his kingdom is a t/m kingdom. They thought they would ms and fire ball the attackers to death but the attacker kingdom was able to take 40% of there land before they were able to do that. So what they thought was going to be a easy war win for them now has turn in to hoping they can get all the land back and win the war. As for what happens next no one can say for sure.
You should keep us posted on the happenings of the war. Tell us what each side is doing.

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Originally Posted by vines

The issue is his kingdom is a t/m kingdom. They thought they would ms and fire ball the attackers to death but the attacker kingdom was able to take 40% of there land before they were able to do that. So what they thought was going to be a easy war win for them now has turn in to hoping they can get all the land back and win the war. As for what happens next no one can say for sure.
You should keep us posted on the happenings of the war. Tell us what each side is doing.

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Orc attackers have the advantage in the short term min time zone of war with heavy capital investment and massive initial gains. You can't MS someone to death instantly... for very, very obvious reasons.

T/M's or healthy Hybrids have more of an advantage with every tick of the clock against pure attackers. If a competent economic blanket (riots, greed, fb's, kidnaps) can be applied alongside perpetual MS, NS, and prop the attackers will lose out damn near every time.

I took it to be that the kingdom he was fighting was a Dwarf kingdom. No where in his post did he tell the race of the enemy kingdom. There are two reason I think the kingdom that his kingdom is warring is dwarf: 1 the gold dragon hurts dwarfs most of all, 2 they lost 40% of their land. Dwarfs have fog that can make an attack much longer and if the other time is much faster they can attack twice before the army gets back home thus how the enemy kingdom was able to take 40% land.
From my understanding this war has been going on for some time.

@kunelg
Can you verify the BE reduction of the gold dragon on the opposing kingdom?

The following thread hasn't turned up any definite answers.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=575096

If you insist war win, go ahead, but honestly long war = you lost on everything else. Your honor will start dropping, you cant gain good acres anymore, nor NW.

It simple depends on your age goal.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Those who say that you lost because the other side "owned you" by getting all those acres, are outdated.

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I fully support this sentence.

If brute force was everything to win wars, we would all play Orcs and Dwarves.
The Kingdom you are warring is given the choice to withdraw and go away with your acres, giving you the win,
or to force you (if they can) to surrender.
Until one of these 2 things happens, you haven t lost

Keep in mind that if they withdraw with huge profits, it is a very hollow victory at best. And they would be justified in proclaiming victory if they feel the need for that.