the Dwarf/Artisan BE mystery made simple

Ok, straight to the point. I can't seem to get a clear answer on this. People keep saying back and forth that the BE bonuses are added or multiplied.

I think putting it this way will clear it up, at least for me (yes i know i'm slow).

Assuming i'm Dwarf/Artisan (+50 BE)...
Assuming i have a base 0 BE...
Will i have 50% BE after bonuses, or will it still be 0?

If they are added, i should have 50% BE.
If they are multiplied, i should have 0 BE.

Please don't answer if you just THINK you know what you're talking about. I've heard a hundred people's "thoughts" and 50 say it's one, 50 say it's the other.

Thanks in advance for any useful help.

delete this thread, learn to read and browse the internet

http://forums.joltonline.com/showthread.php?t=606679

The lowest BE anyone can get is 50%.

Dw/Ar has a standard +50%, meaning that this will not drop below 100% (sans dragon)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FatClownBoy

Assuming i'm Dwarf/Artisan (+50 BE)...
Assuming i have a base 0 BE...
Will i have 50% BE after bonuses, or will it still be 0?

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As mentioned above this situation is not possible in the game, either that or your province is dead or you're playing a different game.

You forgot Gold dragons Dillbert :)

To make your artisan mystery simple, consider this:

sage > artisan

Simple?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KuhaN

delete this thread, learn to read and browse the internet

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Just because 99% of the community here (as well as the coders, designers and former owner mehul patel), are mathematically impaired, doesn't mean that people are denied to ask their questions about it. One should encourage the desire to improve understanding.

I do not know why the coders of this game made percentages add up, when the only correct way to calculate with percentages is by multiplication.

But aside that fact, this Brian person even provides the people with inconclusive information.

If the (race == dwarf) check is passed before the (gold_dragon == true) check then the BE is ((100 + 30) * 0.85) % = 110.5%

If the (race == dwarf) check is passed after the (gold_dragon == true) check then the BE is (100 * 0.85 + 30) % = 115%

Boy, am I glad I quit playing last age. Seems like I am not coming back any time soon. :)

Now the dwarf artisan have +%50 BE on top of whatever BE they got (meaning %100 when they got no pessies :D)

Does anybody know off a way to get positive income with no pessies, without building massive amount of banks.

You know %100 draft rate sounds tempting :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clampy

You forgot Gold dragons Dillbert :)

To make your artisan mystery simple, consider this:

sage > artisan

Simple?

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? My post clearly mentions dragons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dillbert

The lowest BE anyone can get is 50%.

Dw/Ar has a standard +50%, meaning that this will not drop below 100% (sans dragon)

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assuming you are 75% draft that cuts aprox 22-25% of your BE,which is:

0.75 X 150 = 112-115% dont know exactly

assuming you have gold dragon that cut 20% Be, or is it 15%?

lets say 15%: 115% X 0.85 = 97,75.

assuming u have some 10% BE science, it is added to the 150, from which the multipliers cut. e.g: 0.75-80% jobs penalty X 160.

The BE is capped to 150, However all the extra BE (e.g +20% science) it is added ONLY for penalties, but it does not take effect on your province as in 170% BE.

Further, if you go down to 200-500 peasants by lets say FBs or overpopulation, your BE will decrease faster due to percentage multipliers on your overall remaining BE.

for example if we take an orc with 110% BE (regular + 10% sci) we have the following penalties:

big draft of 20% penalty: 0.8 X 110% Be = 88 Be drafted at 67-72% or so
receive gold 0.85 X 88 = 74%.

Lose peasants down to 200-500 by FBs or overpop (there is a formula) you go down to 55-65% Be.

As opposite, the dwarves start with a 150-170% BE, depending his science/personality and goes down to 97,75% be or arround due to high draft+gold dragon.

THE BAD PART is that if dwarfie is FB/overpop he goes downt o 55-65% BE just like the orc does. Since the penalty no-peasants formula applies to dwarfie also just like any other races.

His BE bonuses are more like upfront, not at lower margins, just like the +30-40% combat gains works on bottomfeed better rather than topfeed.

for example:

max trad march is caped at 22% land in topfeed.
max trad march is caped at 8-9% or so.

your +40% combat gains wont bring anything more above the 22% topfeed but it will bring 4-5% gains on your bottomfeed margin.

Where did you read BE is capped? Maybe it was the changes post where the coders said "it's not capped"?.

And it's not a multiplier. The BE will go down at the same rate. Think of it as a non-Dwarf/Artisan but just 50% higher. That's how it'll work.

To cut it short, vlahul, everything you wrote is completely wrong.

fine. believe what you wish.

i dont play dwarf anyway. not my cup of tea.

BE is caped, who need to know that, knows already.

From the post at the top of this board.

Age46 - Changes confirmed.
The race and personality config for Age 46 are confirmed to remain as posted on 24-01-2010.





--- edit ---

Sorry, I made a mistake when I said they building efficiency mods were multiplied. Almost all bonuses are multipled, but one part of building efficiency is different. It works like this.

be = 100% (or whatever)
if race == dwarf: be = be + 30%
if race == artisan: be = be + 20%
if gold_dragon: be = be * 0.85
etc...


So, if you're Dwarf Artisan, you'll see 150% be. It is not capped.

If you're too damn stupid to understand the above, then you really have problems.

where do you see that say it works above 150%?

my wise fellow mate.

the state is obviously loud and clear: YOU WILL SEE 150% BE. never more, no matter what 80% BE scien you have

It is not capped.

that kinda gives it away, somehow it makes people believe it is not capped. Dunno why? Must be wrong....

pun intended

my main point was not that the BE is capped all that, even if i believe it is capped at 150. we will see when age start.

my main point was that the penalties are multiplicative. in the end you go to the same bottle as the other races in a way or another.

i believe that that 150% is capped as efficiency over your buildings, but anything above like science or so it is counted in the penalties but do not affect buildings.

if you read carefully those are my thoughts. And i do not argue Brian, on contrary i follow his statement.

Brain it is not LOUD and CLEAR cause in one side he claims that IT IS NOT CAPPED which is correct considering the penalty multipliers but on the other hand he claims that PENALTIES ARE MULTIPLICATIVE.

Brian already corrected himself, and stated that the BE bonuses (stop saying penalties) on Dwarf and Artisan are additive. BE is not capped in any way. If you were to not draft any troops, and do nothing but get science into BE, it would certainly go above 150%. Vlahul, you are wrong here, as usual.

ive seen over 300% be

Over 300%!? How the hell?

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Originally Posted by raduu

over 300%!? How the hell?

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the science is in!!!!!!!!! science!!!!!!!!!!

its added. log on as a dwarf artisan and you will see 150% be.

there is no BE cap either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raduu

Over 300%!? How the hell?

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Second age of Genesis .. my human/sage has 210% BE ... =) I'm sure 300 is achievable ..

Vegeta what does the scouter say..

What 300?!!!?!!

ahhh DBZ analogies... that takes me back. You know the good ol' days where 30 min rage fests were only filled with 2 mins of action and 28 of posturing.

sorry to spamm