Grace has been good, but really dont wind me up whilst im having a bad day!
Enjoy the rest of your age and good luck.
Our defection was successful, but costly of course. We now reside in the kingdom of Unnamed kingdom ().
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Grace has been good, but really dont wind me up whilst im having a bad day!
Enjoy the rest of your age and good luck.
Our defection was successful, but costly of course. We now reside in the kingdom of Unnamed kingdom ().
So you defected from Grace? Nice. Enjoy being razed.
Cant stand people that just defect.
lame n00b
Well its Grace so i dont feel sorry for them but I do have to agree with Drug.
lol do as you please, im done with the game, i do have a life which doesnt involve me being sat at my pc screen 24/7, and when u are being told the leaders arent happy with me as i dont make all hits, as they set the hits to suit themselves my time 3-4am, so im done with utopia, the games fgucked anyways, and probably not gonna exsist in a few ages, so raze me all you like i may even delete all buildings to give y'all free hits! The summer is nearly apon us time to go outside!
if the wave time didn't suit you why did you not simply inform them, and ask their help in finding a more suitable kingdom?
You have ordered that 546 soldiers, 1,133 Warriors, 37,736 Axemen, 30,115 Berserkers and 10,730 thieves be released from duty.
You have given orders to expel 18,580 wizards back into the peasantry.
lol - ghetto mentallity, what else would you expect.
apperantly I was warring grace, did we war?
continuation of war FTW!
He can defect his province if he wants to. It's his account not the kingdoms. Deal with it like the rest of us do.
Guy defects his province and you all think it's a reason to kill of a player. Nice.
And people can kill him off if they like its up to them what they want to do with their utopian experince.
Fates Warning - he was entrusted to that province. it's his account, not the province. The whole trading system is in place for it. He was traded into that province, and we expected the province to be traded to someone else when he leaves, and told him what we expected.
It's cute when people think this makes a difference.
A new prov will be traded in. While losing the acres hurts, it's really only about 4% of a kd's land on average. Not insignificant, but it won't ruin an age.
I know that anyone who does stuff like this tends to have a hard time finding a new kingdom. Monarchs and leaders talk all the time before getting new players in, and they tend to respect it when other people mention how a player tried to screw them over. It's common courtesy, really - I'd never take someone who did something like that in my kingdom because it isn't right that they did it to someone else and I'd never take a risk on that happening to my kingdom.
In a few days, nobody will remember Grime, Grace will have a new prov ready to go and life will move on. The other 24 players will forget him. The game won't really regard or care for him. That'll be the end of it. Life will go on.
Just the mentality of it. Seriously annoying because it is just unbelievably selfish and inconsiderate. But whatever.
defect the rest of the provs imo. grace had a mediocre run, time to let it rest in peace.
octo, when are tics coming back?
sounds like poor management, but still a fairly ****ty thing to do
Tough ****. It's his account and his province he's playing. You actually sound like a cheater to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuriho
A province being the property of a kingdom rather than the player?
OMG, give me a break!
The slot is the property of the kingdom (in that if the player doesn't suit the kingdom, they can boot him and make room for someone else).
The province is the property of the player since he's the one who is managing it (the whole game is structured around a player's ownership of his province, lets not fool ourselves here).
And if he wants to quit, thats his choice.
Trading people in is always a risky business and there is always a likelyhood that things might not work out (and asking a guy to attack regularly at 3-4am is lame btw).
Its not anybody's fault if a new tradee doesn't work out, its part of the process (you gotta accept the risks). You gotta be mature and let the dude go his separate way with no hard feelings when that happens.
In top kingdoms, provinces are always the property of the kingdom, not the player. The kingdom consists of 25 provinces. It's the kingdom's resources that went into building each province. It's the kingdom's time and effort that goes to keeping those provinces from being hit. It's the kingdom's slots those provinces are in, and it takes the place of any other potential provinces that could be occupying that slot.
If a player wants to quit or leave the kd, they are welcome to take their account with them, but they should always leave the province for the kingdom, because it was the kingdom that gave the player that province to begin with. And when we're talking 5-10k acres, if not more, for that province, you can't just grow it again overnight.
And Magn, the world is round. Somewhere, whenever you plan a wave, it's going to be 4am for someone, or it's not going to suit someone. Kingdom waves are planned for the best time for the majority of the players. The rest need to either conform to those times, or inform the kd leadership they cannot make the wave time, which usually leads to the player being politely asked to leave
Technically, 24 if a player leaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
You can make it 25 again after that by recruiting.
If the guy started at 400 acres and got pumped up by the KD mates, you could argue that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
Otherwise, if he's not the cow, the ressources that went into his province were provided by his own province (on average).
Yes, so he gets a ride on the KD's reputation to keep his province safe. But while he was in the KD, he contributed to the defense net that kept the other provinces safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
Its not much work really for the most part.
Being good and intimidating does the job.
Players come and go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
Thats a fact of the game.
Its not anyone's responsability beyond the monarch to try to keep their KD slot occupied.
Its a nice gesture when a leaving player can find his own replacement, but it should in no way be required (finding a replacement can be hard if none of your acquaintances like the game).
No, it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
The player's province was originally provided by the game.
The only case where that could be an argument is if a leaving player left the province and it was given to someone else.
Okay, so he's gonna break your land/nw crown by leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
Its a bummer, but its part of the game.
Un-anticipated setbacks can mess up the best of plans and you have to suck it up.
Yeah, someone will have to suffer if you want a 25 players at the same hour wave every wave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon KT
It pretty much means that all your players will be in similar time zones or the the RL of some players will go on the back burner for the sake of the game.
I would never presume to require the later out of my players, but to each his choice.
then magn you and your players will forever be a ghetto if thats the attitude you willing to take.
leaders and players agree to a set of requirements, that includes setting alarms and so on - utopia isnt a game once you get that into your head its all up hill :)
IMHO what Grime did was lame.
Nicely put Allanon.
And yes, The nub is lame.
Magn, i wasn't debating his right to take the province like he did. You seem to be making that the issue. My point was it was a dick move. He broke his agreement with the kingdom, that the province he took over would stay with the kingdom.
You who are speculating should listen to us who aren't, Magn. The reason it's a dick move is that he broke his agreement with the kingdom in many ways (not telling leadership when he can't make wave, taking province away from kingdom that he agreed would stay in kingdom, things like this). He's acting like JOAB when they broke their cf agreements just 'cus it suited them at the time. Nothing wrong with it game-wise, just a serious dick move to break agreements like that.
From a business standpoint, its not so hot as most players prefer to be challenged in other ways (as opposed to finding out if they are disciplined/crazy enough to wake up at 3am-4am for a game).Quote:
then magn you and your players will forever be a ghetto if thats the attitude you willing to take.
leaders and players agree to a set of requirements, that includes setting alarms and so on - utopia isnt a game once you get that into your head its all up hill :)
@Nuriho:
Then, I see your point about the break of promise and the fact that he was traded in an existing province.
However, one has to wonder if perhaps the issue is not two-sided (its hard to believe he acted the way he did without being provoked in some way... most people are not jerks by default).
I hate to admit it, but the few instances where people have gone out of their way to annoy me were usually caused at least partly by me not being tactful enough.
I am thankful for those occasional occurences and what they taught me.
Spot on magn! I did feel i was being pushed out of the way, and im sure im not the first, And tbh if im just gonna lose my hard work and get dropped from a kingdom, i find that quite ****ed up. So there fore i done what i done, and i hope it hurt, maybe not top 5 for NW this age LOL!
If you got pushed grime then you explain to the leadership that it isnt working for you and you cant meet those commitments and you leave. Ive had it, other people have had it. Just because someone annoys you or whatever, doesnt meant you are entitled to do what you did. Players have made issues ever since the game was created that the accounts are theirs blah blah. It is a kingdom game, by and large, if you want to play it properly. Any half decent kingdom is going to try and control the accounts and then have players in them, and with the system now in place... it is much simpler to move people in and out of those accounts. It is about working relationships and functionality and time zones and what not.
No one is ever going to like people just bailing on them, or even taking the account in the process.
Ok I can actually comment from a standpoint of someone who knows what happened.
1. No one was trying to push grime out of the kd. We asked him why he didn't make waves and he defected.
2. The reason we wanted him to hit at 2-4am in the morning is because he was late for the previous wave so thats when his armies were home.
3. If he had have said "I will be late because..." He wouldn't even have been asked what was going on.
4. The first time he was asked why he was late for EVERY wave was the time he defected.
Therefore it was a lame move. We wanted to findout why he was late all the time and try to work out a better situation for everyone. So we could have everyone hitting on time and so he could have a life AND army in army out in war situations.
Feel free to comment on that all you will but those are the facts.
Nub is lame, but cos we're talking abt grace here, I support him :)
ah, +1 MA. i forgot about that key point
boring blah blah blah, and this jibba jabbba, end of the day, this is only a game, there are many more important things in life, like getting laid??? Any of you gracers understand what that is??? ............
Erm ok maybe not...... i came back onto irc i said my apologies now be done with it, the new age will be here soon, not like you were getting anywhere this age anyways, so go back to your irc cuss and complain about me a little bit more or u can just get on with it play ur game and do better next age!
odd ... i get wasted all the times and make it to waves on time ... i dun get why 3am is so bad...=)
3 am's a good time for me. 8 am means stay up all nite or set an alarm.
Hi all!
I support Grime! Good job for sticking to your morals and depriving the KD of their crown.
Let us take a look at a few things here:
What everyone has been saying thus far is that the KD is more important than the individual, and that if the individual hurts the KD in anyway, the KD should attack said individual (with 'polite' words of 'get out of our KD... pretty please') that causes such disorder.
There is a word for that, and that word is Fascism.
A unit acting to protect itself from it's weaker members?
Fascism.
An organization that spreads an ideology around, and forces others to adopt it?
Fascism.
An organization that cares not about the welfare of it's constituents, but the accomplishment of a task?
Fascism.
You are obviously fascists. Grime owns his own province, it does not "belong" to you. Nor does his life, his welfare. You cannot dictate the terms of his dismissal, nor can you dictate the terms of his existance. Grime is an individual, and as an individual... HE HAS RIGHTS!
*this message has been brought to you by the national league of democracy*
There is fascism in kingdoms because it works, and plus noone was forced to join the kingdom. Every player there understood the conditions of being part of the kingdom when they joined.
Oh and Hallo, please indicate to me any kingdom in the top 10 which has a proper democracy in their kingdom.
... and in any democracy, by his contract with the kingdom, verbal or written (on IRC), wich he agreed when he joined, he should have left the province in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo
So your analogy with fascism is not only idiotic, but you seriously have to share the stuff you are smoking. We want to have those halucinations too.
Any business or any sports team. You really imagine your favoured football team will keep the non productive player in the field, without changing him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo
The church. The state. IRS. The mayor. The political party. The corporation. The boutiquer. The school. The publisher. The friend. Mom and dad. You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo
Médecins Sans Frontières, Malteser International, International Red Cross, all care for a task and don't care about the welfare of it's constituents. Damn fascists they all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo
*this message has been brought to you by the international league against hallo's stupidity*
WolfDgrey summed it up pretty damned well. Kingdoms are not democracies. My kingdom certainly isnt. You do as your are told or I replace you. End of conversation. I will always explain why, giving the logic and the reasoning behind it or explain why I feel the way I do or the kd council. Either the situation improves or we replace the players. We get on very well as a kingdom because we can all talk crap as well and have a laugh. But when it comes to the running of it, they follow what is posted. We look at alterations as a kingdom, if someone has been crunching numbers and says well actually, we could make that change and it will we get more of x.
But kingdoms that do well are not democracies. Democracy is a great theory and idealogy but in reality and in practise it is exceptionally weak.
Well spoken WolfDGrey and Mad_Scottish.
You summed it up pretty well and i think you killed the thread unless Hallo has not been smoking some more...