I've been out of the game for a couple ages. I've heard people say hybrid attackers are no good now..? Is that just trolling or the truth
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I've been out of the game for a couple ages. I've heard people say hybrid attackers are no good now..? Is that just trolling or the truth
I suppose the answer will be "It depends on the race and what your kingdom set-up is!"
I just want to hear people's opinions!
Realest spoke and everyone overreacted.
Faeries are very viable TMs now, so there's less need for hybrids to dish out the "TM" damage. That said, do whatever, just don't run Undead/Rogues lol
too late palem, there are already 106 undead\rouges out there :)
i wounder, is any player of the last common choice (the 2 orc\mystic, the 3 human\mystic, the 15 undead\shepherd, etc..) write in the forum and can explain why he made that combo choice?
I wouldn't do that! i'm the Dorf/rogue on the server! if nobody else is doing it, it must be right!
hybrids died the same age mehul changed science before the jolt handover
So does that mean all races realest? like, no human A/T? I'm sure you think no humans at all though...
correct
Im going selfish "hybrid". Running avian with 3 tpa (7 mod tpa) 15% TDs for my economy. Not wasting my stealth/thieves for NS otherwise it all goes to waste if I have to be training thieves not army with the money
you'd be better to ditch the 3 tpa and run WT instead of TD's! You get more offense that way
we had a big debate in my kd about this very topic. in the end, i for the most part won and had everyone go orc, with a few undead and faery. however, there is one human and one elf and they are both doing poorly which is not a surprise. in my opinion, id prefer all my provinces to be exceptional at one thing than mediocre at two.
Don't listen to Realest. There's nothing wrong with hybrid attackers. My kingdom has been using hybrids since age 46 when I joined and probably before that. We have about 6-7 wars per age and haven't lost more than war per age yet. We usually end up somewhere in the top-50 for netw and land.
don't listen to Landro because he's pretty dumb. Here, watch this:
I've been playing since Age 15, and I've lost less than 5 wars in my ENTIRE career. Since that time, I've ended t3 10 times, and won 3 times.
Pretty stupid argument huh? Kindly stfu now.
Have you been in 5 wars your entire career Mr crowns?
And dont count the fake ones.
KD's warring for land have no use of hybrids, pure atacker KD kd will simply outhit hybrid one to pieces and w/d at a point they belive they took most they can.
KD's warring for honour and warwins can still put hybrids to good use as long as they dont mind geting outgained heavily even when winning vs certain setups.
But nobody needs ****ty hybrids runing 50-60 opa and hoping not to get hit and grow into ub's, they are just deadweight no matter how flashy their ops are.
But to put discussion back on topic, I still feel hybrids are viable ATs are easier to play than AMs, Am is a lot easier to play, but all can be done. Rogue makes AT very easy to pull off. With the sage being weakened, it is harder for AM, but not impossible.
I have to agree with citadel, 50 opa is hard to overcome.
Disagreements are ok, disagreements laced with insults are not.
Hybreds are situational IMO, they can be fantastic under some situations but others they are weak. At different times during the war, different people will be weaker than others to thievery (using that as an example), if you grow while having bad econ then you wont be able to maintain a decent thievery def and hybred actions against them become easier. The same when your chained, you'll end up with a fantastic TPA for thieving.
IMHO it is better to play as a attacker who dabbles in thievery instead of going full blown A/t (again regarding thievery, same if wanting to play A/m), for exampe human sages can make great A/t after they been chained down (or after pumping TPA)but if left alone and good growth then they would be better to focus more on pure attacking. If your kd is good enough then you can lead ppl into weakened states then it is rather easy to be ripped apart by 'hybreds'.
The WT/TD can be largly decided on the oppositions Faes, if they don't have many (only 1 or 2) then TD would be my prefered choice (assuming decent tpa)but with too many fae threats (4-5) then WT would be better IMO, no way will you realistically beat a Fae in thievery so the auto fail to me is more appealing.
Just my thoughts ^.^
An example of a Human A/T
5 ppa
1 wpa
3 tpa
8 dspa
8 epa
This gives you the power to NS full attackers while still having good offense and decent defense.
a/t's cant thieve when they get chained midoki. Their thieves get locked from overpopulation and start deserting and they typically end up too low on the nw chart in the end for their ops to have any importance since thieving too high up is useless. Best use of thieves on chained province is to release them and aid sols out to provide more space for the returning elites.
a/m's on the other hand can be a real pain once chained, their wpa rockets skyhigh partially compensating for nw diference on oping and both LL and FB results are based on targets resources and not your own so you can use them to their full extend on ppl with much higher nw/acres. Not the optimal scenario ofc but at least province's magic aspect doesnt get disabled like when you chain a/t.
If your overpop then deal with it, just cause you can't thief untill you resolved it doesn't mean you can't when the oppertunity allows, you dont stop being an attacker just cause you cant attack for an hour or two.
Oh and I know a chained prov wont be able to do there best against someone 20 times larger but they aint the only ones who can be opped, hence the word situational. /Facepalm
The stronger your thievery the more options become available, the more situations become profitable for yourself and the kds objective, as a pure attacker I found oppertunities to fill up my pezzies on every hit I made after the 1st day of war. If you have the intel then you can make better choices, as for the OPs question about are they any good then my answer was "depends on the situation" with a easy to see example... well I hoped it was easy to understand.
I find human a/t to be meh... to make it really work like that you have to crash your economy with a very high draftrate even with housing science, and take buildings and population away from their military and economic buildings. That nerfs two of human's good strengths... and it's not like attackers can't train up tpa and build watchtowers. Better to wait until later in the war, if the human has some breathing space, to train up some extra thieves, and use them to ns once the war has dragged on and enemy economy doesn't allow them to afford extra thieves, and their watchtowers can be neglected or torn down. Before then they're pretty good at resource theft, since that doesn't require as high a tpa and sends fewer thieves per op to be useful - helped by the sabotage bonus as well, and puts you in a better position to do the thief training thing in order to run better ops.
midoki if you are chained you end up mindlesly trading acres at the bottom with the rest of the no def provinces. You are overpopulated at all times except right after land comes in and your thieves are deserting most of the time.
Your nw is too low to be able to NS enemy top provs and any thievery you can do will have to be targeted at bottom of the enemy KD where its wasted.
so yeah ... its not situational, its useless. Your much better off releasing thieves and aiding them out and keeping more military, it will be of much more use to yourself and to the KD.
^ riots spree on bottem
^ steal rescources at the bottem to stay in + income and you just steal their aid to their bottem chained guys
^ prop chained provinces at the bottem if they have almost no tpa anymore nice full leet army oe one hitt on that :)
^ or just ns
All of the above makes it even that harder for the enemy chained provs get a nice greed on him to
When doing the above you will be able to not let the enemy bottem really pump their defence up again and lowering their defence but all is situational.
But having 180 OPA at the bottem no defence no thieves will be onley landswap and landswap
chained human can still have 120 OPA with some thieves to use his stealth.
Not using stealth/manna to zero than you are doing something wrong at the bottem
If you're using your stealth/mana down to 0 then you're a hacker, because that's not possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crypticterror
Personally, I find the A/t to work a lot better when you are growing instead of shrinking - all those pes that aren't filling up fast enough? Steal them. All those gc (and runes/food) you need to keep up with training? Steal those too. Your tpa might have started strong enough to NS, but if you pop 50% in the first 48... all it is now is defense and scavenging. But if your up that far, that's all you want it for anyway - your goal is to make them pay for ignoring you.
Also, thieves work great against a semi-chain. They drop you enough to kill your pes... you just steal them back. So you can kinda look at it as taking a semi-chain and econ kill off the table, which forces them to either deep chain or max gain. (Which is kinda why those are the two big strats at the top, since they are both much tougher to stop.)
Wiz from an A/m with LL do make a nice deep chain buffer though. As human sage A/t I used that once myself despite the magic malus - when you hit +170% magic sci... your 1.5 WPA that became 4 RAW is more than enough to be a mage too. A/T/M for the win! (Or loss... since at the time I was chained 1700 => 600 in the first wave, and down to 400 in the second. Since my kingdom wasn't able to even run a chain to 50%... we resigned at 24 hours in, we knew we were that outgunned. But I did my part as best I could have - made them spend half their second wave to finish me off.)
The point of all that was that A/m buffers deep chain a bit better, A/t can grow into land faster.
I second Ethan's remarks.
Hybrids are perfectly fine. If you're in a top10 KD looking to grow, yeah obviously it's different. But there are 320 kingdoms that aren't top10 and if they're warring, they can pretty much all benefit from a diversity of options. Every KD needs strong attackers, and if you hope to compete with the active and well-organized warring KDs, you need to have strong ops too. It's a balancing act that you have to fit your race/pers availability into. Sometimes it's best to have heavy attackers and dedicated T/M. Sometimes it pays to have a few hybrids.
People go on about how activity wins wars, and it's true. But what happens when two KDs are equally active? The one that uses sharper tactics and optimally utilizes their personnel has the edge. In this way, getting every last ounce of ops coverage can make the difference.
There will always be provinces in the enemy KD with hardly any wpa and tpa. On these guys, hybrids can cover ops and let T/Ms save their resources for the tougher targets.
On a sidenote, about a year ago everyone was trumpeting about how hybrids are king and warring KDs are wasting potential if they aren't firing every gun at their disposal, blah blah blah. The introduction of faery has strengthened the dedicated T/M, but it hasn't done much to reduce the effectiveness of hybrids. We get caught up in the fad of commonly accepted strategy in this game. There are a great many paths you could potentially take to reach your goals.
There is no such thing as a/t/m. Or a/m for that matter. Attacker provinces either have better wpa than their opponent or they don't, and rune management is important. In war you can't steal an infinite supply, and most likely you're going to have to distribute the rune production throughout the kingdom in order to have enough to feed an a/m to cast enough instant effect spells... or nerf your a/m by building a ton of towers and having runes stolen by a competent t/m or a/t.
i hate it when facts get in the way of people's ignorance. please carry on everyone and play "hybrids"
All hybrids are good for is gas mileage.
They don't even look that good.
I'm totally buying one.
EDIT: LOL wait, what? You're talking about hybrids in UTOPIA?
I thought we were talking about things that were real... not deprecated ideas that a few bottom-dwellers cling to... my bad.
there is a kd full of them :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
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Originally Posted by Realest
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Originally Posted by Realest
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Originally Posted by Realest
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Originally Posted by Realest
Hmm, I see no facts, nothing but opinions, I crowneds, and attacks. I see no facts from you. So no facts are being ignored, as they are not displayed. I am also not going to go to your "Me the Best thread" and ask. If you have a fact, bring it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
As I said earlier, Hybrids are not dead and have definitely not been dead since Mehul sold the game. That is your cue to say kingdoms that war, dont know how to play the game.
Hybrids are situational, and easier to play as AT or At, where as it is very hard to play a successful AM, but decently easy to play Am.
I do agree a hybrid with 60 opa is not the best use of that space. But, attacking is key and the more attackers, the more overall uniques you can throw out in a war, the better a chance you have of winning.
You have the same quote twice lol
It was worth repeating :P
Fact: An elf with 100% magic science will need 6-7 raw wpa to op attackers with a decent success rate outside of the ghetto.
Fact: There is no racial thievery modifier except for faery, which is no longer a viable attacker.
You're kidding with the AT At AM Am thing, right?
And the only way hybrids are 'situational' is that you might be in a 'situation' where the KD you're warring has an inferior tpa or wpa to your KD and you're able to op the hell out of them. Doesn't make you a hybrid. Warring a KD of dicing UD merchants that have a better wpa and start using NM doesn't suddenly make them a hybrid kd.
Fact: The earth revolves around the sun every ~365 days. If the earth completed its orbit ten more times you kids would still be bad.
so it takes 17 mod wpa to fb ppl with decent succes rate ? good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev