Early CF:

My KD is currently in a war.

However, the KD we are warring had a couple of unseasoned players that attacked us, and thus put their KD in hostile and we declared. Now they are asking if we can have an early end to hostilities since they recognized they are beat and they never wanted to war us in the first place.


So my question is, can we agree and stop hostilities before the first 48h of war is up without getting in trouble with the Utopian Lords ? We don't want any deletions because Dev's think we are in a fake war..

No you can't agree to stop. You must continue attacking at the same pace as before.

I will be monitoring your war and will report both your KDs if I see any drop in activity.

War minimum time is 48 hours, any less than that would constitute being in a fake war.

Ask them who their inactives/undesirables are, and smash them. See if they want the "top taken off" to level out their sizes for them a bit. Set your sci to max, don't send (another) dragon, spread the hits around - there are a good number of ways to "go easy" on an enemy. Remember, if you just trade hits for a day, everyone gains honor.

Also remember that, if you do go easy for the second half... they might just get ideas and string it out. One hopes that they've got more class than that... but nothing says they will.

Actually stopping all hits is risky as it is look at as FW, but a small drop off, especially in a getto, isn't going to be noticed, or cared about. 'Tisn't like you are farming sci/gc/rebuild or anything, you were actually gunning for the ww, which you believe you've sown up.


I was once (before FW was enforced strongly) in a 24 hour war. In the first 12 they cut me from about 1500 to 500, which I bounced to 800 when army got back. In the second they took me to about 300 + 200 incoming and did some containment on the top as well. In the same time.... we'd made maybe half their total hits. King called it off 24 hours in cause he knew if they could take me out in under 24 hours, they could take any of us out - while we weren't even in the same league. IMO, 'tis the right thing to do - when you know you are beat, surrender. If you *can't* yet... I think the winning kingdom should be able to "look the other way" for a day. But I've seen it stated it *is* considered FW... so do the "honorable" thing (IMO) at your own risk. I've always admired that kingdom that had us so beat and let us go with just giving them the win.

(Interesting to contrast with my same kingdom 3-4 ages later... if we had to rechain the same target after the first "wave" we'd be doing poorly, though we don't chain quite so deep as they did still. And in our current war we had someone dropped from about 2500 to 400 within 24 hours... and he's still in it! We are much better these days.)


Edit: it may not be clear in the above, but while I think you can get out of this with "class", you do have to be careful these days. While I disagree with the rule in this particular scenario, it has lots of shades of gray and I'm not sure I could draw a line part way either. *If* intentionally bending/breaking the rule, be certain it is because you believe it is right and accept the consequences if it is enforced. DHaran is restating what I've seen earlier - they are clear surrender in under 48 hours is a fake war.

"Ask them who their inactives/undesirables are, and smash them. See if they want the "top taken off" to level out their sizes for them a bit. Set your sci to max, don't send (another) dragon, spread the hits around - there are a good number of ways to "go easy" on an enemy. Remember, if you just trade hits for a day, everyone gains honor."

Don't take any of Ethan's advice. Any mention of these tactics in game to your KD or the other KD will result in deletions.

We hit them all out for the first few hours after we declared, but they haven't really hit back.

They say they didn't want this war and several of them refuse to take part, saying they will withdraw at min time in any case.

We would rather not demolish them if we can avoid it.
It just feels wrong hitting someone who say they have lost, say they will withdraw at min time and don't hit us back..

You don't really have much of a choice. If you don't hit, then you'll be considered in a fake war. My advice is that if you don't want to completely destroy them then take their books instead of their acres. You'll still be gaining and they'll be losing a lot, but you won't be completely destroying them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ordray

You don't really have much of a choice. If you don't hit, then you'll be considered in a fake war. My advice is that if you don't want to completely destroy them then take their books instead of their acres. You'll still be gaining and they'll be losing a lot, but you won't be completely destroying them.

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I'd rather lose acres than books...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DHaran

I'd rather lose acres than books...

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True, but it's less likely that their less active members will be pk'd altogether due to overpop from trads.

Max gains, theft ops/propaganda, LL. It feels dirty, but you might as well take them to the cleaners. It's on them to fight back, after that point.

lol you're not going to PK anyone.

I sent the enemy monarch a pm asking that they fight back, otherwise they are going to be left with nothing after minimum time. It's on them now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I_am_Spartacus

lol you're not going to PK anyone.

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Depends on where the easy acres are, the number of attackers, and the number of hits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Depends on where the easy acres are, the number of attackers, and the number of hits.

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Yes, lightning also strikes people depending how tall they are, the number of high objects in the area, and the number of lightning strikes.

(aka irrelevant to even bring it up cause it's not going to happen)

congrats on fluffing up your post count with more useless garbage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I_am_Spartacus

Yes, lightning also strikes people depending how tall they are, the number of high objects in the area, and the number of lightning strikes.

(aka irrelevant to even bring it up cause it's not going to happen)

congrats on fluffing up your post count with more useless garbage

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Thanks for your own ever so useful input.

With the fake war rule being enforced you should rip them apart. If they didn't want a war they should not have given you the button. It's their own fault and you should be taking full advantage

I think provided the war is clearly won, no one is really benefiting in anyway, and you WD at min time, nothing should happen. It is more when a FW is used to launch a cow or escape another hostile.

I doubt the situation would even be looked at unless someone reports it. So if you were hostile with someone else when you declared i would not stop attacking, but otherwise seems no issue.

I believe reports of FW are looked at case by case...

Please don't encourage people to do things that are against the rules...

While i support the FW rules i think that to enforce them in situations such as this would be not only laughable but detrimental to the game. I think that when considering whether or not to implement the rules in any given situation that the question of whether their was intent of abuse or not should be strongly considered. What i mean by this is, did the two kingdoms actually intend on gaining an advantages position for themselves by abusing the warring system.

In this case its clearly stated that a couple of new players, whom I'm amusing where unaware of the hostility system, accidentally gave the war button to a kingdom, they quickly realized, they had no chance against. upon this realization the kingdom then attempted to negotiate an early end to the war so that the entire kingdom would not be punished for the beginners mistakes. From that description it seems clear their is no intent of abuse and as long as the war is concluded at its minimum time neither kingdom really gains too much in the way of an advantage over their neighbors from the extra 24 hours of pump time.

To choose to implement the FW rules in this situation, should the choose to call an early CF or a situation like it would only serve to punish new players and the people attempting to teach them the game. In case people haven't noticed we are rather short on new players and teachers and i don't think this game will survive endless we give them a little leeway, especially when theirs no real harm done in doing so.

War is for warring. If you are not warring then you are abusing the system.

If you want to go easy on the other kingdom, you could stick with a max grabbing strategy which is less likely to kill provinces. Max grabbing is a valid strategy so it shouldn't get you into trouble.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bishop

War is for warring. If you are not warring then you are abusing the system.

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SPOT On
Just smash them so they learn their lesson

Simplest solution - kingdom that is losing should state the following:
"If you stop hitting/ops (except retals) now, we will surrender in min time. If you keep hitting while we have already conceded, we will consider it bad blood and will war till EOA in spite."
Assuming there is decent reason to believe them, then the winning kingdom has 1 optimal strategy for winning the war - stop attacking/opping. Anything else is clearly detrimental, and so this lack of hits is fighting the war to the best of their ability.

I wouldn't put it past them to punish the *loosing* kingdom, but then that's a real threat if 'tis past min time, so why can't it be made before then? And it isn't like they didn't just get smashed as punishment as well. But that situation would be one where punishing the winning kingdom is pure hypocrisy, since they were trying to win to the best of their ability by not attacking. (Collusion, of course, changes things... but afaik, collusion is only a problem if done in game, so just take it to irc or something. That one struck me as bad precedent too, but once made, can't unmake that rule.)

That isn't a solution at all. Both kingdoms would be under war protection while not warring. That is an abuse whether they mean it be or not.

If you want to be nice, the most you can do is explain the rules to them (link them to this thread even). So that hopefully they understand why you can't let up the attacks, and take it as a learning experience.

Meanwhile, 24 hours more of fighting isn't going to kill anyone. If you're going to go easy on them in ANY way, don't say so in game. Don't message them about it, don't post anything in forums/royal commands/etc. Saying the wrong thing in game WILL get you into trouble.

LOL @ bishop, yes I'm sure that both the two kingdom now in question where intending on gaining a distinct pump advantage by creating a elaborate story to justify a CF 24 hours earlier than it would normally be available. I am also sure that had they been given the go ahead to form an early CF that they would have used that time to be SUPER pumped and then would have jumped strait to the top of the charts upon dropping out of EOW CF. good work on preemptively putting a stop to their plan!

I mean seriously this game is dieing (the developers can spout what ever they want about the player pool growing 40+ players in 3 age or whatever but its just BS) for multiple reasons but mostly because people tend to treat new players like dirt. Newbies get made fun of in forums more often then they get good advice and the kingdoms where they find homes are constantly punished for the new guys mistakes. As a result new players tend to get frustrated and quick before they ever pick up the game and the kingdoms who try to teach them end up loosing their experienced players to more competitive kingdoms.
Worst of all the developers don't even seem to care with this being a prime example. It would be soooooo easy to just say "sure give them the early CF if you want" and it wouldn't really harm anyone either. Instead the response is essentially "F U. you chose to have nubs in your kingdom now you must pay the price!"

Yea...that's definitely what they're saying. Not "Use the game mechanics for their intended purposes", but definitely "Haha, you have new people and now you will suffer!"

Yep, that's definitely why. That's definitely why they deleted a huge bank last age. To punish the nubs for being new and not understanding.



Go spout your crap somewhere else please.

LOL Palem and we couldn't have even the slightest bit of understanding for the new players or those trying to teach them? we couldn't say "hey the new guys made a mistake lets give them a break"? instead its "Just smash them so they learn their lesson". which indeed teaches a lesson but just not the one i would assume we wanted taught (an understanding of hostility mechanics) instead it teaches the new players that the people with the most experience in the game don't give a damnd about their learning curve and would rather see them quit over giving them a break and it teaches the guys trying to help the newbs that they are far better off just killing the newbs and recruiting a more experienced player. if this kind of atmosphere is not only allowed but encouraged eventually you will end up with only the top 10-15 kingdoms left.

It teaches them that there aren't exceptions.

Regardless of the reason, it's not fair for one kd to be able to get away with something that another kd can't get away with.

My kingdom is new too. I am going to fake war right now. But its ok, cos I am new and I shouldn't be punished. I like this game, it is exciting - I will also make multiple accounts with one of each race. LOL look at me, i don't know any better \:D/