What you guys think what's better option for A/m, DW/Myst or HU/Myst?
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What you guys think what's better option for A/m, DW/Myst or HU/Myst?
Dwarf has a cooler spell book, but don't need to go mystic to be A/m, choose attacking personality instead.
Human hybrid I do not recommend you will be dog meat all age.
Dwarf looks strong next age though, but not as strong as an Ork or Undead attacker and definitely not as strong as a full on T/M.
I'm doing a Dwarf A/M next age. I'm going Dwarf Mystic for the double effectiveness on the guilds and towers and extra spell duration. This means I can run 5% Guilds and still get good spell duration. 15% WTs and Clear sight will keep me safe from Thieves. I won't have the OPA of a pure attacker, but after my T/Ms do their rounds, I'll be able to break provinces, and they won't be able to hit me back. I'm curious if the spell damage bonus makes landlust worthwhile. I could effectively double tap every 2 hours between land lust and my army.
lastunicorn is correct, avoid mystic unless you're that 1-2 provs in ur kd doing MS. Which you won't be as hybrids
I think the land that Mystic Saves you is invaluable. You can make up Warrior's bonuses by building training grounds with the land saved by being a mystic.
Or you could be sage, and have similar land saved on guilds/towers just from science. Mystic is good for MS and +1 mana... which is usually said either A/M or a/M, *not* A/m. A/m explicitly wants to be nearly as good as a pure attacker, with FB/ other spell spam capability.
Mystic land savings = about 20%
Cleric land savings = about 30%
If all you evaluate is land savings... mystic is still wrong for A/m.
Nobody uses cleric cause it saves 30% land. It saves ~15-20% plus the cool animate dead factor.
You're better off with tactician or warrior for this A/m 'hybrid', they have better perks.
Agreed, Human Mystic seems like a good combo but for Dwarfs there is really no need to go for Mystic. It is the same as it does not need to go for Merchant as well.
Dwarf is a race who is able to perform nearly most of the advantages of all the personalities can offer to you when you are out of war. Once in war, you go for your war build in your own plan, once out of war, you can change your build strat entirely depends on which kind of area you want to pump in.
For example, if you want to train troops, you can go highly for Homes, Arms and Banks/TDs. If you want to pump science, Schools and Banks/TDs. If you want to pump wizzards, go for Guilds.
So consider that a Dwarf will have no problem to pump out of war, the personality you should consider is those which one that can help you the most in war.
- Tactician doesn't seem to suit Dwarves since they do not have much use for the building credits. Orc players most probably will go for Tact the next age so you can ask for the accurate intel from them if your kd has some, you do not need to pick this personality for yourself.
- Warrior with 15% more OME seems more suitable as an attacker for Dwarf compared to Tact.
- While you can consider the Rogue for three a/t/m roles which is possible for Dwarfs with their extra BE bonus.
- A simpler style would be Cleric and that shift towards more to tanker role as Dwarfs will be able to tank thievery ops as well the next age with the gift of their CS spell. So with some GS, TDs and small amount of WTs you would be able to tank hits from the attacker and the thieves. While Wpa depends on how well you pump your prov through high Guilds when out of war, but that would only enable you to defend against other races except Elfs or Faeries.
- I have seen some succesful Dwarf Sage as well, but that's only when you are willing to enjoy no benefit at all in the early age. With the new changes come in, Sage players are equal the same as a race with no Personality at all in the early age, as protection and effectiveness in science gives you nothing when your prov has no science in it. But once reaches the mid age which everyone most probably have pumped up a good military offence and are readying to learn some science attack, I would say a month's time, you would have a good amount of science by this time as well, this is when the time Sage will start to reveal the importance of its role.
These are the choices depend on what role you plan to play with Dwarfs. For more attacker styles I think Warrior or Clerics will suit you more. For Hybrids it would be Rogue or Sage. That's my 3 cents, hope it helps.
Don't pick mystic... you'll get wiped out by attackers left and right, in war and out.
I'll say it again... there isn't really such a thing as a/m in this game, aside from the next age's Elves - and they're a really weak attacker that is difficult to play right.
Ignore everything you read on these forums about the distinction between "a/M", and "A/m". You either have the wpa advantage or you don't - there is only so much that can be done to maintain your wpa. Any attacker using their mage resources is going to have to pick their targets carefully.
With orcs having reflect magic and being a powerful force this age, attackers' magic is severely curtailed without a t/m around to throw vortex.
All that said, Dwarf/Sage is looking like a good option for a flexible province that can do any role well with the proper investment - late in the age, anyway.
Warrior is better throughout the age, and the extra gen and OME is a big deal in creating and fighting chain tactics. Dwarves are helped in this with their free building costs, boosted BE for better guardstations, and quick feet if they can get it off hastening their attack times.
Cleric has a different kind of durability. Haven't really thought about Cleric's survivability compared to Warrior, but the land that would go towards hospitals could be used for all sorts of defensive purposes if the cleric is willing to sacrifice some offensive power.
Tactician is overrated... is the extra hour of attack time you'd get from Tact seriously that important to people? I'd sooner have Warrior's OME in war-time.
Merchant might work if your Dwarf is more towards the cow end of the spectrum.
Basically, play your dwarf like an attacker, but take the time to wizard pump. It's not too hard to figure out enemy wpa... don't try to play it thinking that you're always going to have better wpa and channeling than other attackers, because chances are you won't.
Human is still garbage for anything except banks and cows.
Undead has an outside shot of using some magic, due to chastity being a good enough spell to suffer through repeated fails. Having no food requirements makes it easier for undead to wizzie pump enough to deal with the science penalty. Warrior is the go-to personality for obvious reasons, as Mystic is too frail.
I will be going dwarf I just have to pick Cleric, or Warrior. Hopefully someone breaks it down :)
What do you guys think of War Hero? A Dwarf A/M should be able to hold honor this age.
War Hero is garbage.
The War Hero is good for orcs (less for undeads) and ambush prot. Without it they are fuked. 9/2 elites. Easy to ambush, very easy...
The -50% land losses on Ambushes isn't all that significant. True, Orcs are easily ambushed but it essentially amounts to a Cleric running >21% Hospitals - reducing a 50% loss by 50% - though you'll still lose troops all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by loky
Considering that Orcs tend to be spell/op magnets, the +50% Honor bonuses is close to worthless because 150% of zip is zilch.
Only good things about War Hero for Orcs are the draft costs (assuming they're able to draft at all) and 50% faster training (same stipulation).
Sage is one of the better options for a Dwarf A/m. Even as much as Sage got nerfed, the +25% Science Effectiveness adds up super-fast and, with virtually no land management expenses, they have plenty of cash to invest. Stacking +25% Tools Science with the Dwarf's +15% BE means you can get craploads of mods from your buildings - running a 60% draft that can compete with 80% draft. +25% Alchemy on top of Banks > 100% BE means even that much more cash to reinvest in Sciences in addition to training loads of military. A few Rax (again, over 100% BE) + Quick Feet and you can outrun an Avian Tactician. Clearsight + WTs (again, over 100% BE) offers awesome Thief defense (with +25% Crime Science to boot), and +25% Channeling Science gives the Runes and WpA boost to take advantage of Dwarf's +30% Spell Damage.
-50% Land Losses on Ambush Attacks
The WH bonus affects acres, not combat losses.
It's a useful bonus, but by itself is not enough to make WH competitive. Assuming the WH isn't chained or fireballed to neutralize most of it's bonuses - and WH would have to be run as a kingdom-wide strategy - is faster training and drafting going to be much stronger than OME or attack time? Probably not. WH doesn't get the means to accrue honor without non-war heroes to help, and because of that the WH in a kingdom are giant bulls-eyes to be chained sooner or later.
The best part of Cleric is the auto-animate dead.
Just sayin...
Sage is a personality that is suitable for all races throughout the ages. It is a personality that acts to negate every possible penalty a race has or extend to greater bonuses. Eventually you can see even an Undead with -25% science penalty playing Sage, can play it pretty well when he consist of millions of books in his prov.
However, the success of the effectiveness of the Personality, imo are linked by 2 important factors. One is the protection % offered from the Sage itself, one is the defence value offered from the race itself.
So now, lets have a look in the view of defence value. In my own way, I do not measure a race defensive strength through one military unit, I measure it by two military units. For example:
- the defence value of an Elf is 10, 6 from its def spec and 4 from its elites
- the defence value from Hafler is 11, 5 from its def spec and 6 from its elites.
So in overall, the defence value of the races are such:
- Elf = 10
- Hafler = 11
- Human = 10
- Faery = 16
- Avian = 7
- Dwarf = 8
- Orc = 7
- Undead = 8
So now, let us view from the offensive side of the overall races, imo, I measure the offensive value from a race through one military unit.
- Orc / Undead = 9
- Avian / Dwarf = 7
- Elf / Human = 6
- Hafler = 5
- Faery = not worth mentioning xD
So the defence value of the races are:
- 16, 11, 10, 8, 7
The offence value of the races are:
- 9, 7, 6, 5
By there you can assume that:
- Offence 9 will be able to break into the defence of 10, 8, 7
- Offence 7 break defence 8, 7
- Offence 6 break defence 7
- Offence 5.... (suggest that it would be faster if you just pump it up yourself)
So,
- Dwarf defence is 8
- in natural comparison, races with offence 7 or higher will be able to break you most of the time
- which are a total of 4 races, Orc/Undead, Avian/Dwarf players, all around the utopian world
Take another example:
- Humans defence is 10
- in nature comparison, races with offence 9 will be able to break them
- which are a total of 2 races, Orc/Undead
Faery defence is 16, that is the reason why Faeries have always been the race which is able to maintain high level honour rank compared to others till the end of age.
Okay, the above discussed is about the views of defence value of the races. Now lets have a look into the protection value from a Sage.
Imo, the effectiveness of the protection value of a Sage, is related to the average books per science field you have. Lets take an example to compare between a Sage player, and a non Sage player.
So make it easier and understandable, lets assume a few things here:
- Learn attack gains 10% from each science field
- Sage offer only -50% science protection
- Non Sage players averagely has 100k books per field, in 1000 acres size
- Sage players averagely has 200k books per field, in 1000 acres size
So an example of books learned here are:
- A non Sage player = 1000 acres
- Books per field = 100k
- 10% learned = 10k
- A Sage player = 1000 acres
- Books per field = 200k
- Protection gives -50% reduction, so its a 5% learn gain
- 5% learned = 10k, as well
Then we have a view into the target that "suits to the standard of interest to being learned".
Personally, I assume provs with:
- 100k books per field, in 1000 acres size, are a standard of being a juicy target to be learned (10k books per field, per learn)
Provs with:
- 50k books per fied, in 1000 acres size, are safed from being learned (because to get only 5k books per field, that the return time may took more than 10 hours each attack, is a bit pathethic)
So a Sage player with:
- 150k * 0.10(10%) * 1/3(66% protection) = 5k
- that means when you only have 150k books per field, don't worry you are safed from being learned
-300k * 0.10 * 1/3 = 10k
- that means when your books reaches 300k per field, you are placing yourself same as a non Sage players with 100k books per field, with no science protection at all
- (so why Sage is nerfed)
- previous -75%
- 400k * 0.10 * 1/4 = 10k
- a Sage player enjoy having near to 400k books per field before they put themselves the same "standard" as a 100k books per field, Non-Sage player.
- with science effectiveness and add up libraries, the effect bonus are truely enormous
- so the saying of Sage is a weak personality, I strongly disagree on this.
- it is not the nerfed from -75% from -66% on this personality that makes it look weak
- it is the overall defence value of the races that makes it look weak
- because the overall races defence value, can no longer protect their science more effectively, like before.
So finally let us have a look into the factors that contribute to the attackers who decided to make the learn attack:
- how much offense I need to send out to break the target?
- more offence sent = lower Dpa in my prov
- more offence sent = higher military casualty
- how many books I can gain with one learn attack?
- is the cost of books stolen > cost of military casualties? (This depends on the cost of the offence spec or elites each races)
So the effectiveness of a Sage personality to play out its role imo, depends and are connected by 2 factors. The defence value of a prov, and the science protection % of a Sage.
- too low defence to break, good for me, but the books I gained are lower, but doesn't matter
- because the cost of my military casualties are lower as well, since I need to send out lower offence to break the target
- too high defence to break, but the books amount I gained are enormous, but doesn't matter
- because the books I gained, are worth weeks of time for a non Sage player like me, if I were to invest on it myself on my own
So theorically said, Dwarfs can be said as, it is a race which can be broken by "all " races at all. Why? Because the races that can break into you are:
- Orc/Undead, Avian/Dwarf
- These races are all belong to attacker races?
The races that less likely to break into you are:
- Elf/ Hafler, Faery/Human
- These races are belong rather to t/m race?
So logically said when a t/m race can't break into you, is logically and reasonable isn't it? Since by all means, since they are more likely as a t/m race after all. While when all the attackers are able to break into you, it naturally just mean you can be broken by "all" races in utopia.
So when a Dwarf pick the Sage personality, you have to be mentally prepared, it will not be the same as when you played the Faeries before. You won't be able to play your prov like the Faeries to enjoy the high books per science field. Either way is that:
- you control your greed and limit your total books per science field
- or you use some acres to invest into Schools
However, its another long measurement how to measure between the Schools and the Libraries, that:
- either a lower science books per field with high libraries can give you same amount of science bonuses,
- or a higher schools with higher books per field which can offer you the same amount of science bonuses as well
It isn't easy just to make a choice isn't it? :\
That math assumes a Faery is using two defensive units where most races are using 1:1 dspec:elite, which probably isn't the case. Still, a Fae is going to have much higher defensive value, and the turtle power of elites is sorely underestimated by many players.
Do no sages have the cop on to run schools any more? I shall look forward to next age if this is the case.
With no cost reduction and no free books, sages would be silly not to use schools often...
...oh wait... never mind. -_-