Dwarf, and what personality to Suit

Thank you guys for your previous help, it is much appreciated. I have made my race choice Dwarf, Attacker. I am having a hard time picking between Warrior, Cleric, and maybe even sage if some one makes a compelling argument. My kingdom will mostly be Orcs Tacticians, and warriors with a few Undead for the herpes.

I know Cleric will have benefits all the time not just in war. Will take longer to chain, and with animate dead I will have maybe a couple extra ticks before my specialists leave my army. It will save money recruiting, and be more durable in war, but not stronger Warrioer.

Warrior will give me greater offensive power, and the extra general for the 3% and later in the age able to hit 5 times.

Only thing I see Sage benefiting is gains, maxpop, and BE, then the others for T/M defense rune production. which I can pump science my self, but wont be as effective as sage. I do like the Idea of sage though, but is it less effective as the others.

So fellow Utopians you have ze soapbox.

It depends on what your kingdom plans to do this age. Warrior and Cleric are both personalities best suited for warring kingdoms, while outside of war Cleric's bonuses don't mean too much, and Warrior amounts to +3% OME and enhanced conquest you probably won't use.

Sage is good if you can secure the time to gain good science, and are skilled in managing your province's economy that you'd attain better base science than most provinces have. Later in the age Sage will need to be very active in using Learn attacks to gain this advantage, and Dwarves' offensive army is better at using those Learn attacks than anyone who isn't Orc or Undead. While in war, you should be able to leverage Sage's science to have a better-than-average province in all respects, and figure out how to use that science to the best effect. Sage's advantages are active at all times, but have to be worked on throughout the age.

Merchant is a good pick for all situations that starts working immediately. Its only downside is that being chained or fireballed removes most of your income, and Merchants are prime targets for both of these actions in war. Merchant can put up slightly better science than anyone but Sage, which is something to consider. With Dwarf, Clear Sight prevents some of the robbery ops a Merchant would get.

Mystic and Rogue are out of the question... the latter is only good on a t/m, and the former is going to have serious problems competing as an attacker.

merchant

Yeah we will be a Warring Kingdom, thank you for your input. I like your points about sage. I am active enough to maintain a good economy, while investing in learn attacks to get ahead of the curve. I do like the Idea of Sage, I really do. I would think by the middle of the age It could start to be more effective then cleric. With the Pop bonus, and stacked 115% BE + Science. I am setting out to have this fun age, and I Do believe Sage Dwarf is it for me. Will be a bit of a Challenge, fending off the orc assaults! I hope my Monarch understands the pick :/ heh

Sage:
~ Tools Science (@130%) multiplies with racial BE bonus (115%) for incredible BE and optimal use of your lands (73.5% BE with 0 Peasants @ 100 BpA Tools, 130% BE with optimal workers)
~ Free land management frees up a lot of spare cash that can be put into Sciences (or military)
~ 145 BpA in War Science matches Orc's +20% Gains
~ 145 BpA in Alchemy Science matches Merchant's Income bonus (in addition to super-efficient Banks)
~ The increased effect of Housing Science enables you to run a large military without sacrificing BE - getting far more mods from TGs, Rax, Forts, and Hospitals.

Warrior:
~ Extra General for an additional +3% OME or attack
~ The +15% OME in War matches a Count War Hero
~ These extra OME mods multiply with TGs (at above-average BE) to match a non-Warrior Orc with a similar build

Cleric is more defensive than anything else. With the higher BE (particularly with Sage) and a few Hospitals, the only thing you'd gain with Cleric would be the permanent Animate Dead effect.


In a coordinated Kingdom, Warrior would win hands-down. In a ghetto, Sage becomes the better option as it's more self-reliant.

i like sage cos you cant beat a dwarf for rotating builds fast to get into sci pump mode after wars.

warrior is garbage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twyla

...
Warrior:
~ These extra OME mods multiply with TGs (at above-average BE) to match a non-Warrior Orc with a similar build
...

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Nope, the Warrior OME mod *adds* with the TGs OME mod. As they both add with the generals mod. Test it using the in game war room calc and any set of OME mods, they all *add* instead of multiplying.

With your activity Zisef, I would go with Sage :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ethan

Nope, the Warrior OME mod *adds* with the TGs OME mod. As they both add with the generals mod. Test it using the in game war room calc and any set of OME mods, they all *add* instead of multiplying.

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According to the Wiki:

Quote:

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OME = (Base Military Efficiency + Training Ground Bonus) * Honor Bonus * Fanaticism
Mod Off = Raw Offense * ( OME + General Bonus) * Personality

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Apart from TGs being added to Wage-based OME and Generals being added to the base OME modifier, everything's multiplied.

( 107.9% [Wages] + 25.2% [20% TGs @ 105% BE] ) = 133.1% OME
7 [Dwarf Elite] * ( 133.1% + 12% ) * 115% = 11.68 mod OP/Elite

( 107.9% [Wages] + 21.6% [20% TGs @ 90% BE] ) = 131.9% OME
9 [Orc Elite] * ( 129.5% + 9% ) * 100% = 12.46 mod OP/Elite

Okay, so I was off just a bit - still, it's pretty damned close!

sage or merch with dwarf, no doubt.

sagggeeeeeeeeee

I hope, my elites wont be caught singing this, or its off to the Faery camp!!

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig in our mine the whole day through
To dig dig dig dig dig dig dig is what we really like to do
It ain't no trick to get rich quick
If you dig dig dig with a shovel or a pick
In a mine! In a mine! In a mine! In a mine!
Where a million diamonds shine!

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig from early morn till night
We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig up everything in sight
We dig up diamonds by the score
A thousand rubies, sometimes more
But we don't know what we dig 'em for
We dig dig dig a-dig dig

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho
Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho
Heigh-ho

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho
It's home from work we go!!!!

Nothing wrong with Faery camp...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twyla

According to the Wiki:Apart from TGs being added to Wage-based OME and Generals being added to the base OME modifier, everything's multiplied.

( 107.9% [Wages] + 25.2% [20% TGs @ 105% BE] ) = 133.1% OME
7 [Dwarf Elite] * ( 133.1% + 12% ) * 115% = 11.68 mod OP/Elite

( 107.9% [Wages] + 21.6% [20% TGs @ 90% BE] ) = 131.9% OME
9 [Orc Elite] * ( 129.5% + 9% ) * 100% = 12.46 mod OP/Elite

Okay, so I was off just a bit - still, it's pretty damned close!

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So based on the +OME being multiplicative, it would make sense to max out TGs to get the most out of the personality bonus.

And wouldn't 20% TGs at 105% BE give +31.5% OME?

You're not including DBE

20*1.05*.8*1.5= 25.2

Ok, I see. I had a misunderstanding of DBE. I just came back to the game, and when I used to play, there was no Building Efficiency at all.

tact ...

Tact---> Rotate buildings super fast with credits being used to raze, and free construction. -attack time and qf and + be on rax/tg's compounds. Less gc and sci means it can't grow fast though. It's just a hitter.

Sage----> be+qf+sci bonus= nice eoa prov for those inclined.

Merch---> be+gc compounds on banks to whore and you can hit and have some tank ability.

sage if 2 hits a day
tact if 3 hits a day

odd people ... stop pretending to know how to whore ... you can whore with any setup ... dwarf/merch has no match to the growth speed of dwarf/tact ... growth = gc

cleric

Sage is the most overrated pos personality in the game. You cant crown, u lose all ur wars early game, and ppl just avoid warring you late round.

Go merchant, tact, or warrior, or mystic, anything is better than sage.

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Originally Posted by Darkz Azn

odd people ... dwarf/merch has no match to the growth speed of dwarf/tact ...

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Azn teach me more on dwarf/tact vs dwarf/merch I'm deciding on which to choose, although I'm already leaning towards dwarf/tact as an attacker

At what point do you think libraries become an effective use of land on a Dwarf Sage?

500 bpa

I don't think its changed any. 800bpa for sages and 1k bpa for non sages. With increased science effectiveness from sages, you might be able to drop it down to about 750bpa before you kick in libraries.

Edit: Bishop beat me to it and apparently my numbers are wrong lol (going off of previous threads on the same discussion)

Depends how you allocate it though Demascus. 500 bpa assumes you stacked pop, alc and be.

Makes sense. As long as you have 500 within those 3 (distributed smartly), libraries are worthwhile and anything extra is bonus. Jackpot.

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Originally Posted by makeo

Tact---> Rotate buildings super fast with credits being used to raze, and free construction. -attack time and qf and + be on rax/tg's compounds. Less gc and sci means it can't grow fast though. It's just a hitter.

Sage----> be+qf+sci bonus= nice eoa prov for those inclined.

Merch---> be+gc compounds on banks to whore and you can hit and have some tank ability.

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Strange, Dwarf with QF + 25% into barracks can hit 3x a day too. So Tactician is not definately needed for that. If Sage the odds get even better!

I can't tell if darz azn is serious about tact. The 15% attack time saves some space on rax yes... but credits bonus is a little silly... Not sure on the math yet, but instinct tells me merchant > tactician for growth. But please elaborate on it if u want darkz...

Whoring is odd topic to me and my noobness

The raze credits are actually quite valuable to an experienced player who knows how to fluidly adjust build to adapt to an adversary in war, not to mention a credits boost maximizes the dwarf's already unbelievable pumping abilities between wars, so the tactician's build credits bonus isn't at all wasted on a dwarf. The specs credits is of course just as valuable to a dwarf as to any race. The accurate intel in war means you'll never lose thieves gathering intel and sort of amounts to a +3% OME if you're sending all your offense out, and the built-in-speed with QF means you'll be reliably hitting at about the same speed as an avian with free build so your land will always be built immediately. The dwarf tact is a nice combo. I'm not saying it's best, but it's easy to see its virtues.

I hate losing tons of thieves to sots.

Hey I messed up can took heritc attempting to go atm any suggestions

Dont resurrect a thread that is 6 years old (a lot of old age info that does not apply to current age)

Make a new thread!

Should tank up and hang out at the top of your KD page! Don't even worry about ops unless an opportune target presents itself. If your KD doesn't think you're hybrid you can whore all the honor you want!

Why am I responding to a 6 year old thread

Dwarf Rogue AT (High Homes to facilitate 3ish raw WPA on the side) A strong Thieves Guild is important...