Please use this thread to comment on the initial changes for age 55.
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Please use this thread to comment on the initial changes for age 55.
inb4 complainers
Love the war bonus option, love the NW range removal at max meter, love the explore fix. And really love the cap raise for damage ops bonus, until now it was a pretty useless bonus to have. I like the overall drop in power, those numbers really were getting pretty silly high. Should make for another interesting age with some big changes like these.
I agree with DHaran and was thinking the same thing, and, I posted something just like it, before reading his post, in my kingdom forum. I like the lower numbers. And, I also think, the damage ops, before this raise, is a pretty useless bonus. I could just re-copy his post, I feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Not sure if sage is overpowered or if it's underpowered. No free books I take it? and only +33% science efficiency but then plague immunity could be good.
No changes to fortified stance? For real? With specs having a value of 4... did killing dragons just get a lot harder?
orcs need full time anon I guess with 7/1 leets
What don't you like about Fortified? That's a good question you ask, it's essentially a 20% strength bonus on drakes if they aren't tweaked as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrified
Like they didn't already?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieva
Could u plz clarify? Lets say kd A war B and wins. Who and when sets those rewards?Quote:
Winning a war will not grant any honor taken from your opponents honor pool. Monarchs will instead be able to set a kingdom reward for winning wars, this reward will be 10% honor or land generated based on your kingdoms current honor/land.
The winning monarch chooses 10% land or honor as the kingdom reward, based on their own kingdom size/honor. The losing kingdom gets nothing, and as far as I can tell loses nothing other than the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiso
Specs kill 5 points, as it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrified
I rarely see Orcs use anon in war. The only time I used it myself was on an ambush and that was more to keep the returns time equal with my trads than it was to prevent ambushQuote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Faery is going to be even more op, about 110% at least without losing any pop. Think +10% def on every faery you've seen this age, that seems really really really scary to me.
Avian would be incredibly playable if they had reflect magic.
Can undead have +science cost instead of -science effectiveness so they can compete with the heavy attacking sages, i.e. orc sages human sages?
I don't like that it nerfs everything attackers can do by 50% but it does not do anything for ops. This basically gives a 2x advantage to oping over attacking and encourages kingdoms to hide in fort and op away. Making massacres do full gains through fort would be an acceptable fix. Or reducing the oping power by 2x out/into fort.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
That or every op done in fortified has a small chance to drop the stance completely :D yeah right...but that'd be fun!
Undeads elite seems a little expensive, since it was brought down from 9/3 to 7/2. Maybe 900gc would be more reasonable.
Also the issue of Dwarf/Human/Faery op/spell damage needs to be addressed. As discussed previously, Humans can destroy 97% of runes with a single LS. This is obviously bull****.
Changes looks fun, but I have one consern (not that I complain really) Warring kd's (not only good once) gonna get insane amounts of honor.
Can someone clarify for me how the war win distribution will work. Let's say my kingdom wins the war, my monarch chooses honor as the 10% reward. I'm the median at 2000 honor and the top is 4000 the min is 1000. Is our total honor added up and multiplied by .10 than distributed equally, or is it all given to the lower honor provinces?
We haven't decided yet Netheril - we are looking at weighting it towards the guys with less though.
I did a quick scan and noticed that Pitfalls was no longer a racial spell. Intended to reduce Faery (Non-Mystic) OPness?
The honor should be equally distributed, and not more given to the smaller provinces. That is disadvantageous when noobs are getting honor and not being able to keep it.
For what its worth, I vote to go with "weighting it towards the guys with less".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
+ Sabotage gains is on 3 races. =\ For the most part the 'uniqueness' of the races is fairly well defined but that bonuses getting stacked up 3 times is bad. Maybe give Avians -30% thief losses?
4/4 specs is a nice change of pace. Getting back the good 'ol days :)
Could you change the explore formula so that exploring isn't like impossible after 2k acres? lol it's super harsh
The lack of personality changes is a little disappointing, but understandable since a lot of effort went into the races.
Race/Pers changes are good. Would have liked to see more pers changes, but obviously a lot of work went into the other things, so I guess that's forgivable.
And thanks for taking the 2 biggest nerfs in the game off my beloved faery :')
*huggles for bish and devs*
Well I tried to mention that if lowering spec you needed to put a lot of elites around the 4/5 value and have maybe orc with a 6 point offensive elite or things will be the exact same. With a boost to warhorse and prisoners and elites if anything it will be a more offensive based game.
Compare elite values on a 5 point system:
Avian 7.5/3.75
Dwarf 7.5/2.5
Human 5/5
Halfling 5/6.25
orc 8.75/1.25
undead 8.75/2.5
faery 3.75/7.5
Things that needed to be adjusted from last age was that war was pretty much quad taps the whole time if you were playing dwarf/avian/orc/undead this has gotten even worst. The elites are too offense heavy in comparison to what a defense spec provides, with the strengthening of soldiers/war horses/prisoners the problem is going to be compounded further.
Orc/avian/undead immediatly jump out as the most powerful races. Avian has TW which is going to be 25% stronger then in the past. Orc has aggression and an 8.75 point elite, sure they need to anon opening wave but once they are quad tapping it shouldnt be a huge issue.
Faery is going to have more relative dpa then last age, you nerfed the elite by .5 but removed the pop penalty, that elite needs to have a 5 for its defensive value or they are going to be just as annoying as last age. I can also imagine seeing all faery KD's being fairly successful with how fortified works. Abusing it in the same way elfs did this age.
Overall I think the elite values need nerfing pretty much game wide except humans which seem nerfed enough that at 4/4 they wont provide any issues.
Generating honor/land based on your current honor land is terrible for honor. It means your happyier to farm weaker KD's because at the end you still get a ton of honor.
Land generation works but why not have it as an added bonus on the smallies. It mkaes way more sense to have both then one or the other selected by the monarch.
ElvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Shifty11
+ 1 Mana Recovery / Tick in war
+ 50% WPA
+ 1 defence specialist strength
Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 5/3, 650gc, 4.75NW
Edit: Things on the whole look good (aside from uniqueness factor).
The rest is just nitpicking...
I'd really like to see Avian with Reflect Magic or something. Their negatives don't feel very well matched to Dwarves. If you run 20% rax as a dwarf (+20% BE means you can water your buildings down more), with the QF you're looking at about -29% attack speed at 80% BE. Pair that with free buildings and an awesome spell book?
I just don't see -10% gains and no stable access (remember horses are more valuable with the tune down) being a fair trade off. In effect, dwarves get higher offense, better spell book, better econ (free bldgs), more gains, at the cost of lower attack speed CEILING and 2-4% more farms. Avians feel too much of a niche race and are forced to stack attack speed to be viable.
I guess Avians can always steal horses and drop them on their enemies, though.
I did not think it would happen, because I'm so happy with the changes, and I thought even if I think something would be a bit better I should keep silent, but this suggestion by Palem is too good, and I felt obliged to say something support wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
will there still be such difference in honor gains in thievery ops vs magic ops?
it's so much easier gaining honor ase a mage than thief... it should be more equal. (raise honor gains for thievery ops, not the other way around ;P k thanks plz)
also! i liked my generals, plz dont take away my ability to quad tap as a faery <3
Its definitively a nice semi-hit to faeries scaling so well with honor, so thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
they lost 10% spell damage so its 91% now lol big nerf, agreed its still an isssue :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
Their def took a relative hit, 9v8 to 7v6 means their leets took a 3.6% def hit (6/7)/(8/9)=.964285Quote:
Originally Posted by eva420
In addtion as their def spec is 6 nw and orc has a 5.75 nw leet they also lost their nw effectiveness so they should be easier to break.
is there harm in lowering it 20% and having a spec kill 4. its a slight buff to sold killing a dragon but a 4 spec killing 5 def just seems out of place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Alot of specs don't kill their "numbers" in points already. (HU ospecs are 6/0 but kill 5)Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
You must've been a Statistics major. Seeming as no one used specs except for Elves and Humans, a relative scale (and I'm curious where you got that one) is kind of irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodz
I see a -22.3% decrease to Orc/UD elites and an increase in reliance on stables (Orcs and UDs rarely run many, if any, stables now; this will water their relative building efficiency down considerably). Perhaps they'll start to consider "Well, do I need more offense, or should I build some more GS/Hosps/Rax/WTs/Guilds/Towers," instead of, "Okay I built 15-20% TGs, sustain/defense."
I see a -25% decrease in Faery elites and a -17% decrease in Elf Dspecs and Halfling elite defense.
I see a -17% decrease in Elf Offense, and -15% decrease in DWs and Avians.
What this means? The gap between Orcs/UDs and everyone else's offense is closing. A good thing. Stable reliance is increasing (means more buildings for offense). A good thing. Faery defense was nerfed extensively (pop% needs to be looked at; I'm still in favor of +% wages and -5% WPA/TPA to prevent Defense stacking + banking + OP strength).
Only DWs and Avians will be better at breaking anyone than they were before (excluding Faery). Offense is effectively on the decline.
yes but those are a "bonus" specific to 1-2 races not the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by fwordz
Faery is going to have more relative dpa then last age, you nerfed the elite by .5 but removed the pop penalty, that elite needs to have a 5 for its defensive value or they are going to be just as annoying as last age. I can also imagine seeing all faery KD's being fairly successful with how fortified works. Abusing it in the same way elfs did this age.
[/QUOTE]
this. Faeries.receiving a massive buff this age... I think its a terrible change, although I can run a whole bunch of faeries next age like everyone else if that's what we are forced to do without balance. Its so easy for any half decent warring kingdom to have count, marquis, or higher by 2/3 age, it just becomes a joke.
Don't buff best race from last age
Avains also now have the most gains/time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zobo
Orc gets 120% gains/hit
Avain is at .9/.7= 129% gains.
They're also going to have 75-85% (depending on stables) of the offense of an Orc. Avians needed a buff. They're viable now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
will WW still grant science and credits?
welll i posted i thought the nerf to nw/acre of the feary leet was enough but,Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
Current age:
Feary: 22.5 pop 4 tpa, 4 wpa, 3 ppa
=>11.5 epa => 92 raw dpa at a cost of 86.25 nw/acre
1.0666 def/nw
Orc: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre=>
11epa => 99 raw opa at a cost of 79.75 nw/acre
1.241 off/nw
Next age
Feary: 25 pop 4 tpa, 4 wpa, 3 ppa =>14 epa
=> 84 raw dpa at a cost of 84 nw/acre
=>1 def/nw
Orc: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre=> 11epa
=> 77 raw opa at a cost of 63.25 nw/acre
=>1.217 off/nw
i guess orcs took a hit to their offense/nw as well and they go from basic being able to break on raw #'s to not being able to break.
seems like a feary buff to me....sigh another age where u have to run fearies.
Faeries need a way to encourage them to build less elites and build more wizards, thiefs, or offense, to prevent the niche of t/m=Faery=stack D=go for UB. -3 generals decreases their offensive power, which just pushes them back to "stack defense." Their offense really isn't anything special, too. Unless they're dedicating 20-30% of their land to attacking buildings, they'll be nothing but a couple extra hits on a chain target (mostly irrelevant).
Here are some suggestions:
Reduce WPA/TPA% mods (10-25% is still HUGE in the scheme of things; I'd kill for a 10% WPA mod as a Dwarf right now), they'll need to run more thieves and wizards to achieve the same numbers, which means less defense.
Add +%wages penalty. Wizards and thieves do not require wages. Stacking defense will become more expensive than building a rounded army. This will also effectively reduce their comfortable % draft rates.
Reduce losses when attacked (built in GS). Faeries are the only caster/thief that do not get any sort of space efficiency mod. They typically ignore hospitals and GS and go for UB, because it's ineffective to have balanced buildings (not enough space). Faeries won't be as heavily damaged by attacks, and won't be forced to stack defense to stay afloat.
+ wages does sound like a necessary nerf (buff? lol) for faery
Why'd they feel it necessary to buff the strongest t/m race over their counterparts? Seems like a really bad choice in regards to balance.
Also,what happened to the predetermined roles that seemed to be shaping up at the end of last round, i.e. giving bonuses so stacked to nearly force a race to play in a certain way, which Bishop said was indeed something they were doing, looks....like it was scrapped in favor of a rollback which is fine, but....then they buff faery again. Confused....
MS is a joke. T/Ms in general is a joke. FB, NS, etc needs to have a cap or gangbang protection like land grabs. I don't see how you can have 4k acres and 3k peasants. That's a bit over the top. MS ticking killing more dspec over 4 ticks than an attacker doing TM without moving meters. Idiot attacks and gave kingdom UF, we're eating MS at the price of 3 plunders? Really? MV is a joke, cost too much, not guaranteed success so its beneficial to use that mana to MS someone than MV. Change the meters mechanics, allowing ops to move them significantly.
Faeries - best T/M, UB in war, Honor Whoring now u gave them a shotgun on top. At least this age, they couldnt attack (occasional hit on chained down province with no def)
Coming age, they will have one general for a huge attack/plunder/learn or even ambush on top of all the T/M/UB/Honor, again ... Really? Lets all play faeries
Faeries just need a 5% pop penalty...
And fireball is completely broken in an OOW situation. It causes several times more damage than ANY other op, while being relatively easy to cast. If you give someone unfriendly and their fae/dw decide to fireball you 20 times (easily achievable by a single province), you need about 48 hours to recover (this is with love and peace on 24/7 and assuming no MS/storms/chast). 20 of any other op does not do REMOTELY this much damage.