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So lets say target is in Max Gain range, both kd's in Normal Stance, what is the ratio for Massacres...
From what I understand it isn't %pez+%wiz+%thieves killed = 100%
it's more along the lines of
x% of target provinces total peasant population
x% of target provinces total wizard population
x% of target provinces total thieves population
I could be wrong, but does anyone know the formula and numbers?
Massacre
Base gains are 9.5% peasants, 8.5% thieves and 5% wizards
Cheers, good to know :)
EDIT: btw, does anything else affect it? Such as Stances, size difference, GBP, whether kd is in war with target's kd or if they are hitting into another war?
Since we're on the same subject I was curious about mass kills in war. Would like to know what I found is the conensus around here.
Tracked a couple of in-range mass in-war and the peasants kills were about 20% of total for each hit. Conclusion: x2 mod in war for mass kill? Comparing troop kills of oor mass with oor trad march, you get similar/same # of killed troops. Conclusion: since military loss is similarly affected by nw, the gain (pez/wiz/thief kills) from mass should also be affected similarly by nw difference?
(since there were claims that mass ignores nw difference, or at least partially)
It does seem to not affect mass. Neither does fort. I just wanted confirmation...
We have hit someone with Mass with both kd's in normal, killed about the same as in double fort.
One of our provinces more than twice the size hit an enemy province for about the same as someone 70% range.
Was also curious about gbp etc, because we're working on an internal kd calc which just needs troops killed, number of peas from sot and number of thieves from infil, which will then automatically tell us how many peas were killed, how many thieves, how many wizards, and also the provinces wpa pre-hit. Seems to be working so far under optimal circumstances, however if there were modifiers that affected it that would help with the calc for certain circumstances.
massacre ignores GS, military science, and racial gains mods, but is affected by stance, gbp, and added/reduced hours (?, never tested this, but would think it's the case). attacking with an emerald dragon may or may not have an effect, but attacking someone with an emerald dragon doesn't have any effect as far as increasing resource losses.
edit: maybe i'm wrong about fort affecting massacre losses.
Fort doesn't affect it...as per what I said in my post. I haven't really looked into gbp, but this is why I'd like to get confirmation from Bishop.
Alas, our archive is limited, and these reports have been lost to time!
To bad, i got some nice records from all the massacres HoH did on me some time back.
The results of it was very damaging even if they hit me from OOR and from bad relative kd nw.
It was pretty OP and really makes a smaller KD unable to effectively fight a larger KD in hostile.
So Bishop, do you mean massacare is affected by military science and by orcs +gains?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
So orcs do +25% more damage with massacare?
What would be the max gains in this case in massacare?
How would you calculate it?
Last age fortified used to affect it. Perhaps it was changed this age.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
I would calc it by doing a massacre and writing down the result :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
were the troops killed also the same? basically what we tested was to compare troops killed of raze, mass, and trad march for oor hit. both mass and trad march had the same kills, while raze had x2 the kill #s. We know raze ignores nw differene (which explains the higher number of kills) so that must mean mass and trad march work similarly (and got modded down due to nw difference)
I don't remember checking the amount of troops killed, I will have a look but that wasn't really the point, I was trying to work out the modifiers of pez/thieves/wiz killed, so we can easily work out how many of each were killed and what the targets wpa is. I have the basic formula for it but if there are modifiers such as gbp that affect it I can make the calculator more accurate.
I figure there's a correlation between troops killed and gains?
unless you meant the calculator needs the total kills from mass (pez+wiz+thievery), and not military losses of enemy (killed troops)Quote:
...we're working on an internal kd calc which just needs troops killed, number of peas from sot and number of thieves from infil, which will then automatically tell us how many peas were killed, how many thieves, how many wizards
yes thats what i meant, sorry typo :)
I am also interested in the massacre ratio. If we could get a record of Massacre hits with all the pertinent info (GBP level, attacker NW, defender NW, defender SoT before hit, defender SoT after hit, etc) we could better calculate the gains.
However, if you want the massacre hit to calculate wpa, I think there are much better methods for that. SoT+Sur+SoS+Infiltrate (right before starting hostilities) will give you the exact number of wizards they have. Or you can make an aproximation with SoT+Infiltrate. Spending stealth is better than spending the MO and general, specially against a TM.