Please use this thread to comment on the age 59 proposed changes . We don't want to vary too far away from what is posted so try to stick to number tweaks rather than inventing new bonuses etc
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Please use this thread to comment on the age 59 proposed changes . We don't want to vary too far away from what is posted so try to stick to number tweaks rather than inventing new bonuses etc
Elves Revives dead troops -- Like AD or?
Sup with Humans? 6/4 elite, ToG, CS.... They are already the best race choice last couple ages.. making them that much better while making everything else (or mst other things) worse is an iffy decision. Orcs+Humans ftw I guess.
I like the proposed changes to honor. +BE instead of +pop would be better than a minor change to pop, and changing the scale for honor gains is a good idea.
Can we change ToG to be 20-30% income?
Will review other changes when I get more time! :)
I like the BE mod to pop instead of pop bonus. Wouldn't be against it being a DME instead of a BE mod though. You know attackers get a OME bonus and a similar bonus to def could be nice even for attackers.
When you consider halfing went from 5->4 in def while fairies went form 6->5 def any bonus instead of pop ends up being a bonus used to draft more and increase def to try and stay unbreakbale. Not saying a DME needs to be equal to the OME bonus but maybe 1-2-3-....could be useful. It would make the "pump" time lower too. With a simple BE mode if i want a high def/tpa/wpa i need to draft down to 2 peasants/acre and while honor covers my BE it still takes a long time to draft down that far. With a DME mod i have to chose draft down and hurt my BE or run higher peasants (and inherently i'd hit the same tpa/wpa just running few leet/dspecs)
BE bonus=need lots of units, DME =need fewer units to accomplish the same goal.
As for sitting I suggest that you leave minimum buyable sitting time at 3 days but if you cancel it prematurely you can take control of your prov after first 24h has passed.
And meh, don't change explore formula from exponential, instead add a parameter that adjusts costs relative to servers largest province, that way you can still explore to catch up to rivaling banks but there's still an effective explore roof for whoever is largest(and subsequently everyone else but that roof keeps climbing along with whatever province is largest).
Exponential explore costs was one of the better changes made to the land chart imo, it forced kingdoms to adapt and not automatically launch a single province and a few killers but the problem with it is that once one bank grows past the explore cap it's almost impossible to counter, so keep the exponential costs but make it feasible to catch banks who manage to "run away" in size.
Bishop, no race has access to War Spoil, is that intentional?
If you are letting people gain more honor from random hits you should consider giving more honor of ops too. I've had 1 point (or none) from doing MS on a Lord.
I love that merchants lose their plunder protection. no more rewarding people for inactivity
People will cry about sage losing learn protection but I'd say let them.
If you consider changing sitting. How about letting a player with no province be sitter?
Yay!
Only thing I will say is allowing a sitter for minumum 24 hours will be very nice if it gets implemented. This would be smart to boost income as many players do not want to use sitting for 3 days if they are only away for the night! Also, please increase sitting to unlimtted time or up it to a month. If people want to spend money and assign sitting to a province for a month they should be allowed to do so... they are after all supporting the game and it beats xlogging!
Let's not tweak or change as they are same for everyone! You see a wekness? Exploit it for your own kingdoms gain!?
I am not sure why anyone would pick sage, tactician or war hero under these changes.
Yay for a pretty big shake up! Good job breaking the boredom :)
Any chance we could get an "infiltrate Wizards Guild"
I assume Faery has WS.
How exactly is Faery supposed to be played now? I am baffled!
Faery - Small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araqiel
You have no idea how much i like this kind of changes...i have been waiting for this kind of changes..for years...finally...developer made a aggresive change...this will make the game so so so so much interesting..:D
My only comments on the races are that Human and Undead might be a little too weak. Maybe give back Undead thievery and drop the human leet cost to like 850 or something.
Regarding the mechanic changes, I'm confused why you can't combine the options for the changes to honor. Swap the Pop bonus for a BE bonus AND tinker with the gains formula?
.... Just stop. Human in the proposed changes are OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
It looks like they have generals back ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Araqiel
RIP Hybrids.
i think sage should have some sort of learn protection. i can see merchant not having it because gc is replaceable within a few days, but building up a lot of science takes time and not having some sort of protection from losing considerable chunks makes sage unattractive. this is coming from a non-sage player.
on races: i think avians are way too strong and faeries are way too weak. this age faeries had a much more difficult time being UB from attackers, and dropping elite d power to 5 makes them essentially unplayable. at least with elves they get some help with -troop losses and permanent animate dead. i also think +30% science effectiveness on humans is altogether way too much... why not +10% or +15%? humans already have one of the strongest elites with 6/4
Wow undead is now -1 general that would be a mess good bye undeads :p, elf revives dead troops what does this mean? does it mean it will revive as soldiers? does this work on offense too or only for defense situations? I love the change in orc -20% sci effects is really great considering they already have +30% gains
Quick thoughts:
Undead is probably only really viable as warrior in a warring KD - the -33% generals hurts a lot in chained situations. Undead warrior looks solid though.
Orc Cleric or Orc Warrior seem solid.
Human is also a viable heavy attacker now. They will be built as pure attacker banks now. They feel strictly stronger than dwarves, even with the pop nerf.
Avian cleric feels strong to me as well.
Giving Faery the only damage bonus is a good idea, but I think they are going to be a bit weaker overall than Elf/Halfer/Human this age.
Way harder next age to make unbreakables in general.
I would like to see a change to make using honor/warring for NW more valid.
Whoring kds will allways pwn warring kds if tehy have been pumping freely.
Could something be done about science?
lag post
I see now that Faeries can now attack again. I missed that before. I think a 4/5 elite on them is better than 3/5.
No...they're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
Please give sage some sort of protection. No reason to pick sage without protection. Good job on the other changes though. Looking forward to an interesting age.
why are the TM so sucky?
can't be UB anymore? what's the use then?
all need to be attacker or hybrid, playing strict TM is no longer possible...
And why consider elves animate dead as a plus? It's utter HELL!! get chained, troops don't die... WTF... Perfect target to chain in war.
Changes are OK, but I personally believe a strict TM race with reasonable defence is needed, and the /5 elites for feary just doesn't cut it
Do tacticians still retain immunity to ambushes?
Well, they aren't that weak either. I think you can make a good attacker out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Changes are okay... hoped for more, personalities really lack.
Human: This race changed substantially but large science bonuses/penalties are lame as they force you to engage early then avoid later and vice versa. I feel this should require a complete rework, but as you have mentioned not to change it too much I would remove ToG from game. Remove population penalty, remove science bonus.
Orc: See human (science bonus/penalties). Also the economy could cause troubles. May be somewhat playable as a support race for soldier pooling to halfers? Seems weak regardless. I would simply remove the science penalty and add a tpa penalty (-20% thievery effectiveness) I feel that well help strengthen them enough to make them balanced and remedy the issue that science penalties/bonuses cause.
Halfer
Looks fun but you do too much. Drop the half price thieves, and lower the thievery bonus to 30%. This race is seriously OP as is. 4/4 elites for 300! :) This is the race I most like with the changes :).
Dwarves they look like dwarves. Seem strong enough, I just dont like playing dwarf but many do seem to enjoy them..
Avian I still think they are more fun with a losses penalty and huge birth rates. Although with chaining effectiveness limited due to removal of raze in war you would probably niche them into cleric. So perhaps your method is more balanced.
Elf Actually looks playable as an A/M race. Could be fun. I would add MS to their spell book so you can run them as a hybrid. As it stands an Elf/Mystic is a pretty weak attacker, but your foced to keep T/M to cast MS. Mystic without double towers means an elf mystic won't really have the build space to play as an A/M. I would chance mystic but I'll post this later.
Faery Like elf this looks fun. I just wish MS was a built in spell here. (add MS to elfs racial spells and as a result give it to fae!)
Undead The only purpose this serves in any top warring/whoring build is to get chained early but keep its offense on 0 dpa. Then to spread plague when you keep it down. Remove plague kthx. Or change the offensive losses. Quite frankly I think provinces being chained and continuing to attack on 0 dpa is one of the worst parts about the current game... Bring back min gains in war via TM you asshat. But in the mean time don't cater to this so strongly with undead.
Personalities
Sage changed for the better, although hopefully human/orcs sci penalty/bonus can be removed. It just causes issues as far as forcing certain game play as mentioned in the racial section.
Warrior. Give them a permanent OME bonus but nerf it to 8% Stick it on the throne page for nubs :) This also helps not make them so fun to retal war for 3-4 days before declaring. As it stands a cleric KD won't wave warriors because then they can quick declare, but warriors won't wave clerics as they can drag it out.
War hero has potential but really it requires all 25 to run it. Only way I see this working is if you give elf/fae built in MS so they can play without being mystic...
Mystic This is The one I would change substantially. Give Elf MS (faery also)
-75% rune cost
+1 mana in war.
HONOR Changes Removing population bonus seems good, replacing with BE seems good :). I would make sure only hostile ops can give/take honor still. I would make hostile/hostile vs randoming influence honor gains. I would make it so when you win a war you get a smaller land bonus but it also comes with both. By awarding both bonuses for war winning you enable warring kingdoms to whore better / make it so more kingdoms are competing in the top. (if large kingdoms have high honor honor kingdoms don't have much choice but to get larger!) There just isn't enough kingdoms playing at a high level to funnel them into two groups as the game currently is. As evidenced in recent ages most of the honor/warring kigndoms can compete decently with the whoring kingdoms.
Seriously...Human is OP...you either make them weaker or just leave it as they are now...
i like the overall game change anyway..:D support till the max...
i would like to request don't simply make a change from this propose change ( i guess the team must have think it up for a long time before you posted it out)
this is a game, and i feel it interesting..let give it a try..:D
Agreed, humans look like a giant noob trap to anyone outside of pure ghettos and crowning kds. -10% pop just hurts now thats theres no pop gains via honor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Avian Merchant might be interesting too.
is bloodlust now gone as a spell? no race has it any longer?
why does it feel like all changes latelly are to help more and more so called "top" kds that whore all age??
they love humans abitillity as bank/attacker so make them stronger
they hate big tms/banks in small kds (to hard to break) so weak them
they get to less honor hitting oow, so give a boost to that too
they wanna do some learns on high science province so remove the sage protection
bend over 5.5k players so the top can feed on them free with better results.
no changes regarding what happened with ama/pewpew/swea, no changes with ww charts, no changes regarding the way we enter war/support multiple hostile/get hits oow... go away warring kds, this is a pure raping game.
Grow big, avoid fights and play dirty!! Utopia ftw
Elf is a perpetual chain target in war with constant AD.
Dwarf should switch their -10% gains penalty with Undeads - 1 General
Faery needs something like Built in MS.
Humans are strong
Halfling is strong
Avian is strong
Orc penalty is just clunky.. thought so when Undeads had it.
Human is very strong...in term of military per NW....their military per acres might lower in early stage...but when come to big acres...they are really damn Strong..
ofc..they need to make effort to get it up...too...
People that think AD makes elves a chain target are extremely confused.
...it's like you didn't even read the changes lolQuote:
Originally Posted by cRs
did u? :P
they weaken tms (wich usually are bigger in warring kds)... those tms who are constat rape by top feeding kds for land annyway. Like that wasnt enough, they gave them more honor from attacks and increased human pwr.. those humans that top whoring kd usually pick them to take adv. on the TOG with low draft
It's hard to accept but I think you are right :)Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtdconv92
mhm...i'd place my elfs in a kd in a position that requires you either chain them now as they are currently breakable or in 2 days they are 100% unbreakable. They will be litterally impossible to take out during hostile as -50% def losses means you put some GS on them and they can counter your hits via LL. Try to take them via war and AD means they lose no dspecs/leets/tpa as you chain them. One of the best t/m's next round if placed correctly in a kd setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrified