Hi folks, please use this thread to comment on the potential changes. As always please remain polite, constructive and on topic. We are specifically looking for number tweaks on the proposed changes, rather than radical reworkings.
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Hi folks, please use this thread to comment on the potential changes. As always please remain polite, constructive and on topic. We are specifically looking for number tweaks on the proposed changes, rather than radical reworkings.
Specific players:
Chondler -100% time allowed in fortified.
Blizz - +100% income.
Flogger - first 5 intrakd mvs autofail.
How is going to work? Monarch chooses.
Understand income bonus guy/girl
But why auto MV intra-kd fail? And -100% fort dutarion what does it do. Disables fort stance?
No need to worry since its specific for just those players!Quote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
Faery get extra def boost with minor+greater protection... but no help for elves/halflings? Both got a slight boost to their attacking but that doesn't help their primary focus (Defense).
Nice tweaks overall but worried about the stacking of two protections on faery, which were already the toughest of the 3 T/M to bring down (IMO).
EDIT: Can anyone clarify the difference between these two:
+ 30% Combat Instant Spell Damage (Dwarves)
+40% Spell damage (instant spells) (Faery)
Besides the obvious difference in number...
flogger needed a nerf
so, t/m sages > t/m mystics?
that 50% sci is brutal.
Who is this Blizz character, and how do I also get +100% income? Lol.
Is this just a troll? No way 90% of these changes stick... so there was no real point in releasing this... Halfer elite 4/5 but 60% of the price of the faery 3/5 leet? individual spam? Some of the changes work but how can you even start thinking about next age based off of this? Either massive troll or just the development team has really mailed this in...
As far as the actual changes:
I don't understand the faery nerf. I get that they got an extra boost from GP, but they seemed to be about even with Elf and Halfer this age, both of which got significant boosts.
I also don't get the tact nerf. Just seemed like a change to be made for the sake of change, not balance.
Sage seems too strong. +40% Sci Eff would prolly suffice.
Love the mechanic changes. I don't quite understand one thing though...
"Kingdom honor and rank will also be displayed to kingdom members."
Is this referring to the way Kingdom NW and Land displays? Where the actual value is on display for everyone and the rank can only be seen by the kingdom? I ask because it sounds like both Honor and Honor rank can only be seen by the kingdom, which doesn't do a lot of good because you can already see those things quite easily lol
/me nodsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jazen
Another age of Dwarf Sages is just fine by me.
Though it is mostly used at the top, but when preparing for war, kingdoms will go negative population per acre by destroying homes just before going to war. Avian continues to be the mathematically worst military race in the game, and adding another 30% peasant growth on top of peasants that are already leaving the province does nothing the change this fact.
Is it intended to have a race in the game that is unplayable at the games highest level?
Faeries, like humans, have massive econ and so get more expensive elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazen
Its hardly unplayable and tbh even it it was that wouldn't really be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
Nice changes overall.
Agree with Palem capping Sage at 40% not 50%
Great that other Heavy Attackers (Ork, Avians), got plague immunity in attackers pers. instead of WH. Indirect nerf of plague lands. Great job there.
+ 1 billion please.Quote:
remembering GA
Faeries go down easily once you chain them, especially if plague goes on. Elf on other hand in pain to chain. Only by thievery ops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan4GS
Like the changes (esp. dwarf), mechanic changes are good.
Sage might be a little over the top, agree 40% is fine.
Personally think tact should stay at 20%.
Still think Avian is a little underpowered. Perhaps leave BR and add reflect magic?
Sort of...Rogue/Mystic still have the real bonuses to TM stuff (mana/stealth and the unique ops). MS is very important. Prop/AW can also be tremendous advantages...so trade all that for Amnesia? Could be worth...Quote:
Originally Posted by bian
another age of dwarf/elf dominance.
Only Avian and Faery have GP... I wonder if that makes sense. I guess it gives a marginal reason to play Avian.
Make UD lose the regular amount of troops on conquest so they can't wtfpwn ubs in long wars and not even lose offense doing it.
50% sage is ridiculous for any kingdom that stays smallish and pumps.
Despite the elite off nerf the extra def on the faery makes it a reasonable attacker - a bit better than this age (which isn't a problem, but might not be what you intend).
Is BB now giving precisely 12 hour builds? If so, as long as you hit/build mid hour, you can have your buildings in for next attack, yes? This seems a fairly big buff for Dwarf/Faery that people might not be noticing.
I think UD does lose regular in conquest because considered a failed attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andurilas
"-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make"
Says nothing about failed hits. It works on conquest too.
Dwarves with QF +10% rax can achieve an attack time of 9.8 hours, so BB wouldn't necessarily help that. Lose the rax or QF and it would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan
Sage is kind of a nub trap in smaller kingdoms though, at least on attackers. It's pretty easy to neutralize science in war if you know how to go about it (nor is it a given that better numbers by themselves are going to win against intrinsic bonuses). +50% sci effects is ridic at the top, and I'm not seeing where a growth kingdom has to make a real choice. Maaaybe War Hero is an alternative, Merchant winds up with less than Sage in the long term despite ToG.
put Sage back at 40% and it's mostly fine. Maybe give them FoK or more free books as compensation, if you want to make Sage more attractive at top levels (not that Sage was exactly underpowered this age...)
I like the changes for the most part. Here's the ones I noticed where it seemed a bit off.
Sage - Yes 50% is a bit strong (as others have said), 40% is more reasonable.
War Hero - Immunity to Storms and Droughts isn't really a bonus since Nature's Blessing gives immunity to these spells anyways and is hardly what a War Hero needs to be worried about, so for UD non-War Heros, this is a pretty big nerf, even with the -75% training time. I'd remove the Droughts/Storms thing and consider one of the following possibilities...
1. +5% to +10% gains
2. -25% to -50% wages
3. -20% military costs
These are things that are totally different from other personalities that would give a more direct bonus to War Hero - as currently, if a Dragon is killed fast and the War Hero has no honor yet, it is practically getting nothing. Also consider +400 Peasants in addition to the +400 Elites for a starting bonus, since in my opinion 800 Soldiers and Spec Credits is vastly superior as a starting bonus.
The MP+GP stacking is really cool and appropriate for Avian, but seems too much for Faery.
Like the Elf and Cleric changes.
YAY @ line breaks in Monarch Messages, and also the Land/Honor spread for WW is neat.
Maybe give WH immunity to riots (you know, because inspiration leaders don't suffer that kind of problem) instead of Drought/Storms and nerf the training time back down.
So War Heroes no longer need to cast Nature's Blessing. I guess they are finally playable (he said sarcastically).
6 hour training times and dragon immunity is very, very nice. Even for warring kingdoms. The other stuff is just the icing on the cake.
Avian - remains a relatively weak attacker. The bonus to birthrate seems weird. Needs a minor buff to stay relevant, like 6/2 elites, or something else.
Dwarf - 6/3 elites and 30% BE (free build creds carry over). This race is too OP right now. And his nerfs were even reduced. Either add a new nerf, or remove either the new BE buff or the 6/3 elites. Just too strong.
I also feel elite price for 6/3 elite should be higher than 800.
Elf - seems balanced. But also only seems viable as hybrid attacker/mage and less suited for pure t/m. (No clear sight, no greater protection, no mama/stealth per tick, no bonus to guild/tower/TD effectiveness)
Faery - seems balanced. It was OP last age, got a small Nerf while elf/halfer got a small boost. Still very viable for pure t/ms.
Halfling - Too strong right now. The 40% TPA bonus and double thievedens effectiveness pretty much give him 100% success rate in most situations. Add the bonus +1 stealth per tick and 4/5 elites, the race becomes OP.
I think the double effectiveness on dens is importan, a lot of races and personalities have access to clear sight, and they need the fewer thieves losses.
But I think they are in place for a small nerf. Perhaps reduced TPA bonus slightly? Their huge tpa basically gives 100% success on a race that already seems strong.
Also bump up the price of their elites a bit.
Human - I like it. Seems balanced.
Orc - seems balanced. The buff makes it more relevant now vs the dominance of undeads last age in warring kids.
Undead - seems balanced.
Sage - +50% sci eff. Just too strong. I don't feel like seeing half the server dwarf/sage next age with 25% population bonus, 30% income bonus.. Its just makes them unbeatable by anyone with a different setup mid-late age. With the big dwarf bonuses and the big sage bonuses that's what we're in store for.
I understand sages are slightly weaker early age, but you can't make them gods late age.
Cleric - the -40% losses is already very balanced and makes them a strong attacker, especially with tactician taking a nerf.
The plague immunity will pretty much irradicate undead attackers from the server, since any setup for undead, a kingdom can pick a different attacker race with cleric, which straight up counters undead, while cleric is already evenly matched with the other attacker personalities anyways..
Warwins bonus capped at 20k is a welcomed change. Make sure top doesn't get too much out of control.
Fort to fort gains change is also a nice change. Capping it at 60% to incentivize people to fight a bit rather than wasting 2-3 days.
Cheaper science for the heavy science rates, along with the insane sage bonus, and human reduced sci nerf? You're going to get everyone rolling sages next age.
Anyways I prefer keeping the sciences expensive. Maybe it means kds that war and don't have time to pump are still capable of warring to kingdoms that avoid wars in order to sci pump.
End.
On a personal note I'm disappointed we didn't see any new interesting changes. Feels like playing the same age over and over again. Kind of like each race got a 5% boost or nerf to his already existing stats.
Can't you guys invest more than 15 minutes of your time working on race/personality changes.
Come on, these changes are boring.
Clearly you didn't play Halfling this age. They were ok against attackers, but against other T/M (even mystics) the fail rate was horrible. Faery's running clearsight was less than 50% in my experience, and Elves was 65-70%. Looking at the reverse, despite our WPA being closer than our TPA, those same Faery's and Elves would cast MS on me at 80%+ success rates, and I ran very high WPA+Magic shield 24/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by fawk
Not that I don't like seeing drastic changes too, but I think they've developed a style of minor fine tuning for several ages before a big shakeup every 4-5 ages. I'd expect a big shakeup in another round or two.
No they would need to cast it because they can get Plague now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
The double sci buff to cost and sage is gonna change game play but not for the better. At current rate, next age changes would involve securing the longest cfs to pump and destroy late-age; warring leaves you at a huge disadvantage unless you absolutely cream the opposing kd. We've already had that before, and it made for really boring gameplay. The changes should be toward balancing sci with wars instead.
I think guys are missings avian stacks mp/gp or did I not see. Anyway I'm happy and the preliminary Virtual Kingdom template is already set. Faery is fine, just not a cow town. Dwarf strength seems obvious but I didn't overdo it because I thought dwarf wasn't as queenly as human.
I like the cleric change vs war hero. This also opens the efficiency for undead war hero I've been victim to the last 2 ages. Now they aren't snuffing a huge trait. As with any of the builds I set in The Virtual Kingdom, it may be stoppable in and of itself, but you're letting other dangerous builds run unimpeded.
Faery gets a nerf, everyone else gets a buff, as usual.
Keeping faery as it is and buffing everyone else still works as nerfing faery. Now, it's a double nerf.
Idk Meda, but I like him/her
I would prefer it if they nerfed the bonus to honor effects, and in exchange give them an advantage, even if only slightly, of building/retaining honor. Just giving them a bonus to Honor effects is an incomplete toolkit. I like what they did to Clerics; they competed the Cleric toolkit with Plague immunity because that was a big weakness previously.
War Hero
+ 50% Honor Effects
+ 15% Honor Gains
- 15% Honor Losses
- 50% Training Time
Immune to Dragon Effects
This is a more complete toolkit and allows them to much more effectively leverage their Honor advantages without being too strong.
I played in CR this age. We didn't run 1 halfling we ran 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan4GS
Anyways if you are opping a faery that has some wts and clearsight you are going to have a guaranteed 50% fail rate regardless of relative TPA.
My point is just by comparing halfling mod TPA to other races TPA, you will arrive at close to 100% success rate on your ops, not taking into account wts/cs/opping out of new range.
Obviously if a faery with absolutely no bonuses to WPA can cast MS on you 80% success, a halfling with 40% TPA bonus and another 75% bonus from thief dens is going to have near 100% success rate on any relative TPA roll vs his target. Only stopped by wts and clear sight.