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Copying from http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ducts-are-fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madchess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Why look at just the total scientists. I got an alchemy professor. Target had 15 alchemy professors. [in war, 104% net, not hit] Could be based on any of these:
-total scientists
-total professors (grads?)
-professors in a field
-skill points in a field
If it had been scientists in a field we should have seen a few abductions when the targets had 15+ novices.
Got one. in war. 93% networth, not hit much, + 4 hours time
Had 22 scientists total, 7 in housing.
Same target: 21 sci, 6 housing, attacked a little, 92% net. +4 hours time
Same target: Failed to abduct. + 4 hours, 91% net, attacked a little, 20 total sci
new target, in war, 92% net , attacked a little,
28 total sci, 5 in housing (I got housing), +4 hours time
was housing his highest category?Quote:
Originally Posted by pathetic sheep
the one i lost was from my weakest category
If true, then the abduction probably happens randomly, and isn't tied to the spread of scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
plus i had all levels at the time...1 grad and 1 novice in the category that was taken from...it took the grad
all this seems to point towards random gains, if we assume 7 wasn't the lowest category in pathetic sheep's abduct
yes. but the last target had more in alchemy but I still took one from housing. Random selection fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by CannaWhoopazz
My KD mate had 20 scientists. On an abduct, he lost a Professor.
Following are relevant details:
My KD is about 90% the size of the attacker's KD.
My KD mate is about 91% the size of the attacker.
Non anon attack. Avian tactician attacker. Elf mystic defender.
Neither KD is in war.
From this, it doesn't seem like there's a threshold above which scientists start getting abducted. It seems more like the more professors you have, the higher are the chances of getting a scientist as long as KD and Province NW factor is in your favour. Perhaps a lot of abducts early on failed because most of the scientists were still novice and graduates.
Ok, so if you abduct a professor of alchemy what do you receive? A professor of alchemy?
I know this seems obvious, but random is random.
That is just rubbing salt in injury. Having 20 scientists after a month is not bad enough you shouldn't make them professors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrinky
Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Yes, what you abduct is supposed to move to your Province. Ok now, not so great later when say you already have alchemy full of profs, and abduct another one. You will then have to reassign to another category and they start at novice again.
I got 2/2 out of war. Normal stance 100% relative networth. one kingdom was 84% networth, other was 107% rknw. Both were not hit much. everyone in normal stance.
I do not expect this to be a serious problem. If you are worried about it create 1 or 2 empty spaces in each category at the end of a war. Will frequently be professor before the next war. Then abduct full professors to fill the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by neanderthal
It is worth testing. Could be "abducted professor ni but there was no opening in science. Ni has joined the peasantry". Is also possible that professors are reassigned. Or it could be that abduction lets you gain more than the "max". The 15 limit could be the point were scientists stop randomly appearing.
you can put more scientists than the "max", it just won't give you benefits
I have 4/5 total since last war.
102% networth, rknw 85.5,
99% net worth, rknw 83.3, not hit on first attack, little on second. second hit failed to abduct. had 28 then 27 scientists. missing 4.5 skill points
and are the scientists coming over with their experience intact?
Orc here. Attacked someone 100% of my nw, target kingdom was 70% of my kingdom's nw. Target had 31 total scientists, 8 in alchemy. I got an alchemy novice a little less than half way to graduate. I did not use + hours. Target did not have GBP.
38 scientists, 37% science protected with uni, i was abducted from undead and lost a scientists. he was hitting up 110% in both NW + KDNW
I got one with -1 hour attack time.
102% networth did not survey or sos
Two hits on a heavily hit province. Both failed to abduct. Target 101% networth. Kingdom 92%, hostile relations.
clearly hitting up yelds better than hitting down, got my 9th so far and will be gooing for my 10th in the evening.
target had 38 and 21% protection from universities
2 hitting upwards, 110% though im orc. Got also 1 per hit when i downwards 91%
just wondering if anyone has figured out the base abduct % gains on an attack :/ following the attack gains formula on the wiki page, I had
0.703 KNF(45% of kd size) * 1 PNF (106% of my size) * 1.2 Racial Bonus * 1.1 (+2 hours) ..target had about 25% GBP from what i saw on upoopu, so i'm thinking that's * 0.75 gains or something? he had 36 scientists in total, 10+ in tools and pop but still failed to abduct any scientist..couldn't get a survey to confirm whether he(an Orc) had unis or not but i just assumed no , YOLO-ed and failed
kinda disappointing to fail my first abduct attack :/ only have 29 scientists so far...seems sad to have gained only 11 scientists but... at least i avoided losing scientists on abduct attacks from similar sized KD + province as well
This is your problem. The base gains should be 3-4% but since the rounding is down and the minimum is 0 avoid abducting from smaller KDs unless they have like 100 scientists/prov.Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneh
aye...only remembered the target had GBP after my failed abduct attempt actually :/ if not with no GBP , 0 universities, 36 scientists and assuming base gains at 3% and if i didn't get my calculations wrong i should have gotten 1.0021968 right? trying to at least get the formula right for now...and yea prob should try and find a larger kingdom but already made a plunder attack before that so kinda reduced my off
(0.703 KNF * 1 PNF * 1.2 Race * 1.1 +2hours * 0.03 Assumed Base Gains Value) * 36 scientists = 1.0021968
GS also protect scientists. Not as good as unis but enough for attacks like this :).
Just hit a prov with 51 scientists.
104% my nw
KD size maybe 80% my size, Neither in Fort.
No unis,
No GB protection
No sage
7% GS (if this even helps)
I got 1 scientist. I was expecting 2-3
If the base gains are 3% you can expect 2 scientists(without orc's bonus gains) at 70 scientists and 3 at 100 :).
Note: I have no idea how new sci system works. Haven't got a province - so all these scientists/professors are flying over my head. So dun listen to me. But...
...but, rng has not been a part of gains formula since... ever(?).
Gains = Target Resource * Attack Type (3% for abductions?) * PNF * KNF * GBP * GS * Universities * Race * Stance * Relations * Target Stance * Attack time modifier * Anonymity <-- should give solid numbers. 100% Gains mod = 1 scientist at 34, 2 at 67 etc. Mods highly relevant around those numbers, less so between brackets.
Curiously means the usefulness of Unis would look like a growing sinus curve ;)
If normal gains formula doesn't account for gains, I would look to mechanics other than rng.
How about stacks? Look to NS kill formula perhaps? Always fun finding out new mechanics. Almost wish I had a prov :)
Just role an Orc Sage and random abduction. You'll be so welcome this time of the age. People are finally getting scientists.
Province Name: Comedy Gold
I remember hitting a province for 2 scientists and he had 40 something scientists. - Lets say 49.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo To
I don't remember if I +4. I'm also not an orc. This is why when I was hitting 51, I expected 2 again.
Oops, I'll put it here too,
We've abducted 3 sci in one abduct. 2x in 2 days.
I think we mostly have this down. ;)
Panthira is here. Pan! I came back years ago looking for you without success Queenie. It's a joy to see you. I will PM you when I see how it works.
I am back to see new science as a utopia science lover.
hit the best possible target and remember to survey first, sure got it down alright even if I have only done single abducts so far, the important thing is the return works. If the awerage scientists have gone up to yeld 2 or 3 scientists when hitting smart that just makes it even easier to get this stuff maxed out faster. It is like 10 days since my last abduct and most had above 30 at that point. I don't know if 40, 50 or even 60 is needed for abducting 2 or 3 as non orc on normal attack time, but as long as I get some results I don't mind when it will increase to 2 or 3.
Just to bad for them if I can only find someone that would yeld 1 from the kingdom I want to retal, I've resorted to retal hits from other kingdoms in many cases if there is someone in range regardless of who hit who since my kingdom fellors is not always retaling for themself. Might not be the best possble targets but good enougth to make it worth it, and the satifaction because the retal and because the attacking kingdom would have to be more caefull with relations to not give ops makes it even more attractie than max gaining.
Ha! I disappeared for awhile. Really good to see you and even more so because the sci brought you back to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuleThief