Integrate umunk easier into utopia

Hi all,

I sent the following mail in the begining of the age to Bishop to present to devs. I didn't get a reply, so I'm thinking that if many people here voice their wish for this to be implemented then it might actually be done.

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Background:

My “tools” are used by around distinct 1000 players of utopia. It adds in-game IRC/slack communication, intel system and many other tools. I believe that these tools help create utopia a more enjoyable experience for the users.
www.umunk.net has a few screenshots. Otherwise Bishop has been a user on it and would be able to explain more in detail the use-cases.


Request:

Allow players to input the ‘kdname’ of their umunk group. Sites are defined as such: kdname.umunk.net

Based on their ‘name’, let the player include the .js script used by umunk to interact with the user: http://kdname.umunk.net/munk.user.js

So if a player is part of the snugs group. The player would input snugs in the in-game settings. Having this specified would add the following to ‘utopia’ pages in-game:

<script src="http://snugs.umunk.net/munk.user.js"></script>

(This script then loads live.js (http://snugs.umunk.net/live.js?kd=snugs) to ensure the player had the latest version of the script. It is also fine if you link directly to this script)

Why:

1. This would allow players to always have their “add-on” to access the extra functionality of umunk to their utopia experience on which ever device they play from.
2. From a security perspective this would be better for the user/player as they won’t need to install tamper monkey and “trust” my script only operates on utopia-game.com domain.
3. For a monarch, getting new players integrated with the add-on will be much simpler and seem less intrusive. Instead of having to install a specific browser, an add-on and finally a user-script, the user would just have to input the ‘name’ of the umunk group.
4. For the game, it will hopefully make a slightly more enjoyable experience.

Please consider it :)

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Beyond simply getting support for this idea, I'm also interested to hearing other ideas on how to implement this in the best way.
Thanks!

I'm opposed 100%. I still think utopia should create a new api in much the way themes are done, that would allow a "level" of integration (a third party utopia API).

I do think that the devs should copy some of the ingame enhancements you've added but as for the intel integration/bot part I'm with khronosschoty.

As for the trust issues you could assure them by publishing the sourcecode and allowing people to compile the user side of the script themselves should they wish to.

I'd just like to point out that if someone doesn't trust you to respect their privacy, they're probably not going to be thrilled that your script has been integrated into the game. They'd probably be more likely to quit than to start using uMunk lol

Why not just rip off every function that umunk has and integrate it to the game. Some enhancements to the ui like extra links for navigation, builds etc are really easy to do.
I know some are harder but are still very important.

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Originally Posted by Palem

I'd just like to point out that if someone doesn't trust you to respect their privacy, they're probably not going to be thrilled that your script has been integrated into the game. They'd probably be more likely to quit than to start using uMunk lol

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The point would be to allow the ones that do use it, to integrate it without having to add userscripts etc -- having it be an optional add on from the settings -- much like the custom themes are an optional add-on. The point wouldn't be to enable it for anyone who does not want / need it.

I'm a committed red pill popper, so it's of zero use to me. I have however voted it as a great idea because the matrix needs batteries.

I don't trust munk but this would make mobile umunk use way easier (and actually work) so I voted aye.

I would be against it...


Not because I think it wouldn't help the game...but that it seems like a ploy to donate more.


If there was various levels of pay that would give people different levels of umunk access, then I would think that it would be better than the current structure.


However how do we know we wont be seeing a big button in Uto Throne page that says "DONATE" every time I look at a page?


Its pretty obvious people can play the game well without umunk and ALL of its features.


If this is truly an attempt to make the game better...I am looking forward to see umunk being donated for the good of the community.

i voted yes and dont even use umunk. Its one step forward towards all of munkbot stuff being innately integrated natively into utopia....something that long needed to be done a while ago.

I think I am against it too, never used it so not sure what it is good for, but don't like my ingame experience ruined by add ons, and Palem is making a valid point too.

I'm with Persain insofar as the community is concerned. Trust is overrated; just play like you're being watched at all times or have a moral compass and the rest is as easy as candy on Halloween.

In fact I have been in 2 kingdoms with Munkbot and it makes your intel handling much easier if you're left brain dominant. I'm one of those other people who are right brain dominant and about any bot appears as garbled numbers to me. Thus my personal opinion aside I've noted quite a bit of praise for Munkbot.

I almost forgot: everyone should run one war with no external anything. Stop your griping. If you desire Munkbot sophistication elegance and style, but don't trust him, you should play test the game sans all tools. This way you can appreciate the luxury without feeling it as a need. It's so weird how people need stuff. You need oxygen and a Bowie knife.

There's a third party component being used in nearly every kingdom you migrate to, whether you agree its for better or worse its hard to deny its existence, so I think it's a natural progression for Utopia to be married to one of them

@strat you really cant run a kd with ZERO outside tools.

1. army in times for your OWN kd.
2. mod off/def for your OWN kd
3. max mod off of the enemy.
4. max mod def of the enemy.

Those 4 intell columns are currently not held in utopia anywhere and are basically REQUIRED in any real fight. To that end though upoopu+a better chat than reverbim integrated into the game are needed and if thats not going to be done in the next few months i see nothing wrong with having utopia have an option to innately send info to an external host via how munk describes it.

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Originally Posted by Persain

@strat you really cant run a kd with ZERO outside tools.

1. army in times for your OWN kd.
2. mod off/def for your OWN kd
3. max mod off of the enemy.
4. max mod def of the enemy.

Those 4 intell columns are currently not held in utopia anywhere and are basically REQUIRED in any real fight. To that end though upoopu+a better chat than reverbim integrated into the game are needed and if thats not going to be done in the next few months i see nothing wrong with having utopia have an option to innately send info to an external host via how munk describes it.

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I'm sure we all remember the days of posting ops & attacks & intel in KD forums. Not that it's at all effective for coordinating a war but I mean, it is entirely possible to play Utopia (albeit largely without success) without 3rd party tools... well except for Angel I suppose.

But yeah at this stage I don't really see the need to keep Utopia so absolutely barebones. But on the other than I do love how 3rd party community tools spring up and evolve. uMunk is the culmination of all prior bots, intel sites, and intel tools/scripts. I worry that perhaps integrating it into the game will stifle future innovation.

@ Persain. That's just disagreement. It's harder, yes. Kingdom forum becomes active and require frequent editing. PMing becomes commonplace. That's the point though. The game is utterly playable standing on itself.

I welcome Munkbot and Munks generosity. The benefits heavily outweigh the risks. The stronger the player base the better. If integral retooling and optimization make for superior play for most, then more power to them. These are the players we compete against, and I want them at their best.

I value my way because it's mine. I've no desire to lure others to the way I play. Anything another player does is a personal decision. I'm playing team on my team.

Clarity Edit: forest for the trees thing here. To me, Utopia is a modern antiquity. Just as I wouldn't put modern pedals in front of a vintage amp and vintage guitar, by choice. Playing Utopia raw is to experience how it was, and why it was.

I don't see a need to lock this to umunk specifically, but it would be great if every bot/intel system could have the possiblity to provide a "user-script" that can be natively embedded into utopia by the choice of the player. Then umunk / stinger / upoopu / etc can provide such, have it "vetted" by the game devs, and have it be an option much like the current theme/css options.

It would allow the users to have custom scripts to custom their game experience in whatever they wanted.. I

Sounds cool. I have no idea how to do any of it. Maybe some day I'll catch up with this modern witchcraft.

I understand it's a lot of work which makes it a slow process, but the devs have been working on integrating features we want/need. Tools free to use for every player.
So say, they allow integration of umunk, a paid service under the guise of donations in my opinion, why would they invest time and resources to continue to improve free tools? Especially if there is a chance that they could be accused of "stealing code" ?
More trouble than it's worth , a definite "no" from me

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

I understand it's a lot of work which makes it a slow process, but the devs have been working on integrating features we want/need. Tools free to use for every player.
So say, they allow integration of umunk, a paid service under the guise of donations in my opinion, why would they invest time and resources to continue to improve free tools? Especially if there is a chance that they could be accused of "stealing code" ?
More trouble than it's worth , a definite "no" from me

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You really dont need to pay anything for munk if you dont want to. BUt whats so bad about donating to someone that does something good for the community?

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Originally Posted by Korp

You really dont need to pay anything for munk if you dont want to. BUt whats so bad about donating to someone that does something good for the community?

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+1

And the free tools the devs give us are largely useless... Though I do appreciate the war room Calc a lot! Best feature since the code change.

The need for 3rd party apps is one of the reasons why I stopped playing (seriously, anyway). The game should ideally be standalone. Most people play their games from mobile nowadays. Why the eff would I spend 30 minutes to coordinate 4 hits from mobile and install all these 3rd party chat apps that constantly give me notifications during the day? The learning curve is steep enough, and on top of that it is just downright inconvenient to play

Nightmare, I'm not clear on your stance on the issue. The problems that you mention would be improved by better integration with umunk (and potentially other addons.) While it might be ideal for developers to fully code all the umunk features into the game, it is not practical for them to do so time wise.

With the umunk integration, you would have ingame access to high quality kingdom chat (if set up by the kingdom) without the need for the kingdom members to install third party chat programs. Mobile hits are extremely easy with munk (to the point where some might feel it's cheating.) If you or anyone in your kingdom has done intel on the target, you can just go to your war page, select the target, click "get defense", click "autofill" offense, and hit attack and it's done. Umunk lowers the learning curve and makes the game faster and easier to play -- especially on mobile. I'm not clear the direction you were going with your post, but your points come across as a big call of support for integration.

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Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam

Nightmare, I'm not clear on your stance on the issue. The problems that you mention would be improved by better integration with umunk (and potentially other addons.) While it might be ideal for developers to fully code all the umunk features into the game, it is not practical for them to do so time wise.

With the umunk integration, you would have ingame access to high quality kingdom chat (if set up by the kingdom) without the need for the kingdom members to install third party chat programs. Mobile hits are extremely easy with munk (to the point where some might feel it's cheating.) If you or anyone in your kingdom has done intel on the target, you can just go to your war page, select the target, click "get defense", click "autofill" offense, and hit attack and it's done. Umunk lowers the learning curve and makes the game faster and easier to play -- especially on mobile. I'm not clear the direction you were going with your post, but your points come across as a big call of support for integration.

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Ah, yes. I wasn't clear.

It would be dumb NOT to integrate umunk or some version of it directly into the game for the reasons described above. The game hemorrhages players from the bottom and the top for being clunky (among other reasons), such that it is difficult to 1. learn the game effectively and 2. continue playing the game conveniently.

Yes, the autofill thing is humorously interesting to me as far as the strength of the enemy. This is fantastic feature to be up against as a non-user.

I have always been for the use of a UI improvement to the game. I would like to see the Devs buy and implement all of the Munk bot UI features.

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Originally Posted by Pillz

+1

And the free tools the devs give us are largely useless... Though I do appreciate the war room Calc a lot! Best feature since the code change.

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Hear, here!