Printable View
So a friend of mine is at war with a Kingdom far larger than his. Atm the size disparity is about 80-90%. However, the armies in both Kingdoms are more or less the same, although the larger Kingdom does have more peasants.
So my question to Persain and ASF: How to best deal with wars such as these, what are the best strategies to keep land loss minimal?
Stick them with the pointy end!
You gotta need to level the playingfield peasant wise. Only way for your friends kingdom to do that is to release military until his kingdom has the peasant advantage. Afterall the side with the most peasants wins in the long run.
Are those peasants on ub? If not semi chain them and try to force some desertions. Will also help with the full chain after since they should have less defense. I'm just a boob though
I am only a simple Utopian Caveman but Kingdom setups matter.
NS FB Kidnap enemy, His attackers need to do this also... Guard Stations for you.
No thats too simple. Proly only works in the Ghetto.
lol, u got me. BUT the size diff is only 32%
We's so ghetto, the only gold we wears is on our teeth
Lol@bartQuote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Haha :D
barts being a !@#$ becuase the hes asking the strategy forum mod how his friend should beat the strategy forum mod in war....i.e. me.Quote:
Originally Posted by elixer
For what its worth.....if u get into a war with a kd that is 20-30% bigger than you, the best suggestion is surrender min time. The only times you'd have a chance at winning or so war/setup specific you'll need more kd coordination and activity than the strategy forum is capable of giving.
Oh I know lol. Just trying To be noob.
Deep chaining in nw order and be very efficient about it, the setup looks roughtly like the war between Barcoloco and Wardawg last age, a war the kingdom I was in at the time, Wardawg lost.
There is no way the bigger kingdom can efficiently chain provinces when all their provinces are bigger than the ones they are trying to chain, and if they are build arround heavy offenses on low def as most warring kingdoms you can easily chain them.
Barcolocos victory revolved arround chaining 2 provinces with each unique with a total of 11 chained provinces since they had to give up on chaining two provinces when I got chained last, since I had prepared for it and had more bulky defenses.
They did use a bit of ns and arson to kick unwanted buildings such as gs and came at us with overwhelming activity and efficiency.
We soon ended up max gaining to minimize loses, and the peasant and ecconomy advantage we had could not be utilized to our advantage at all.
They had 6 people on 6 uniques and most others on 5 while only me and the steward mannaged 6 uniques and a bunch of the core people got 3 or 4, but even had we managed equal numbers of uniques each 1:1 hit resulted in net loses of land, while the deep chains resulted in loses of military.
It was Avians vs Avians core so maybe this situation with Dwarves vs Humans/Elves/Dwarves is diffrent, and maybe they can not muster the needed efficiency in their chains, but it is worth a try, never go max gains vs max gains, that way the opponents will be able to utilize their ecconomy advantage.
One thing that Barcoloco could not prevent thougth was that we ended up with a number of unchained provinces that grew a lot during that war.
I have an idea, but I want to see if Sparta will execute the prime directive.
If you beat a strategy mod do you get to take their place?
you cant compare persian with pan last aged XD
If you beat a strategy mod you win a pokemon badge I'm sure.
Of course you can compare the situation, for both this war and the one last age kingdoms started arround 1,7 million nw appart and one kingdom being almost dubble the land of the other, true Avians and Dwarves have diffrent qualities, but the base line situation is the same. I just can not see the smaller kingdom using chains and that is why in a battle where it comes down to ecconomy vs ecconomy they will lose for sure.
Just like Buffalo Bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
That would be more punishment than reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
We's so ghetto we think Strategy is a board game first invented in 1910
So basically as a strategy mod you're advising a KD to surrender against your own KD min-time? So if in any future ages you get into a war with a KD 20-30% larger you'll surrender min-time as that is the way to go?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
@aquaseafoam, perhaps you can comment on this. Do you agree/disagree?
Asf would have his friends db and gb the larger kd, then likely demand a tax from themQuote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
i have, we got nw droped on by warseekers, they dumped enough nw to be 133% our size then declared on us...we surrendered min time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
edit...better?
So you NW-dropped to be able to declare?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
I thought he meant wsk dropped to declare on him, but it's a train wreck of a comment has anyone ever been so far as to do look more like?
Persain still hasn't answered my question. Did he NW drop to declare on Spartans?
Wsk nw dropped to declare on Divinity and Divinity ended up surrendering. Persain referensed this to back up his statement that surrendering is the best option in a similar situation (according to him).
Spartans declared war on Divinity shortly after they hit fort so makes no sense to assume Divinity nw dropped
this....we explored which cost us pump and droped us into declare range, no nw droping on our part v spartans. In the past Warseekers dumped nw so they could declare on us. And i repeat if you find yourself against a kd that has a 120-130% land or nw advantage 99.9% of the time u've lost and should surrender. Its nearly impossible to come back from that when 2 kds are evenly matched with activity or skil. A kd like FS may win from a huge disadvantage but i'd argue that are vastly better than the kds they beat like that so its not comparing apples to apples. And if someone is asking "how to win" in that situation saying "be more active, and smarter than your enemy" is hardly advice to give on the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
This is cute and all, but the title "Strategy Moderator" does not make the player into a panel member or judge, or some kind of treatise-writing authority on Utopia strategy. The moderator's role is to facilitate discussion and ensure proper functioning of the particular strategy board. So this little troll effort rests on a false premise (that the moderators are some special authority and therefore that weighing in on a particular situation creates a conflict of interest), and in any case it has collapsed on its own since there is no fault with Persain's advice, which is that usually getting yourself in a war with a much larger kingdom is unwinnable. The best advice in such a situation is don't declare on the much larger kingdom. But should you feel compelled to do so, for glory or fun, normally it's a loss.
That would be quite the trick, since Divinity never had the button and Sparta declared.Quote:
Did he NW drop to declare on Spartans?
Your going to get stomped on anyway.... so in war vs someone larger than you (being your auto forced into war, or getting fed up with attacks from them) you goals is different, your fighting not to win, but fighting to make it a painful war for them like ruin their builds so they will lose their next war, and make it a long long war that they really hate even if they are winning the war.
You can take the easy way out and withdraw on min time (which is what the opposing kingdom wants), or make it a hell to war with even though your getting stomped on (which the opposing kingdom does not want).
This is a choice for the monarch.
Of course you can do these things, which a smaller kingdom well knows when it declares on a kingdom that is so large it is just *barely* in range. And to remove any doubt, that smaller declaring kingdom in this instance openly announced that it was hoping only to disrupt the larger kingdom.
The larger kingdom wanted to war. The larger kingdom was willing to CF early, but the smaller kingdom refused to make terms. The smaller kingdom was not in a position to war, so dragged out a long hostile with ops and did significant damage to the larger kingdom to keep the larger kingdom from engaging elsewhere. The smaller kingdom then declared on the larger kingdom after the larger kingdom shifted into Fortified stance and kept dealing the damage, neither side sending out lest the turtle open its shell. The smaller kingdom eventually chained some of the low hanging fruit in the larger kingdom, then withdrew with the land it could take once its advantages started to dissipate.
It's almost as if the smaller kingdom knew *exactly* what to do in this kind of situation. If only the monarch of that smaller kingdom could get in touch with Bart of Sparta and answer his question.
Andurilas explained it better than me haha
The larger kingdom can WD on the war if you held the larger kingdom to too long of a period and unwilling to withdraw.
Note this is at least a week long war if not longer, so you need to tell your province that upfront that you want to teach the lesson to the larger kingdom from pushing you around, if you dont tell your kingdom upfront be prepared for people quitting your kingdom.
Though on the flip side, I have been in a kingdom which we were borderline almost war-able which we ended up exploring then hitting the button. The opposing kingdom were not war ready, but betting that their size will deter people and they were hitting kingdoms who could not declare war due to size difference, which lead to us winning the war. Again a long war though.....