Prohibit adding provinces from 22 to 25 just to win a war

Opposing kd is utilizing this tactic in a long dragged out war, but our kd does not have enough contacts to follow suit and recruit up to 25 at a moment's notice. Should prohibit this blatant abuse from happening, especially since returning from vacation mode in war is prohibited, as one of our provinces is still stuck in vacation mode, making us vastly outnumbered.

Or at least make it so that any newly added provinces stay in protection indefinitely until war is completed, so that is at least something equivalent to vacation mode.

Here are no rules against this nor anything to keep you from doing the same so how is it blatant abuse ? Use the forums here and the recruit function and do the same.

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Originally Posted by Thunder TA

Here are no rules against this nor anything to keep you from doing the same so how is it blatant abuse ? Use the forums here and the recruit function and do the same.

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I think that's why he proposed a rule against it. One option is to cap the number of provinces allowed based on how many there were in each kd when war was declared. That way you can fill spots for people who leave, but can't grow to a 25 v 20 or 22 advantage.

Frankly it's annoying to have to go from 22 to 25 provs just because the other guys did or take the loss. Some kingdoms like to stay smaller and shouldn't be forced to grow in size.

And some kingdoms grow when they can and also shouldn't be forced to play a different way just because someone else doesn't . I agree it sucks and I don't like it either but it's not abuse to recruit in war. As long as both sides are allowed to do the same thing

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Originally Posted by Thunder TA

And some kingdoms grow when they can and also shouldn't be forced to play a different way just because someone else doesn't . I agree it sucks and I don't like it either but it's not abuse to recruit in war. As long as both sides are allowed to do the same thing

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You should notice this is a suggestion forum its for suggesetion new things not debating if its legal or not.

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Originally Posted by Korp

You should notice this is a suggestion forum its for suggesetion new things not debating if its legal or not.

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Ya might have quoted the wrong post because that's a post debating whether something is a good idea or not, which is exactly what this forum is for

I happen to agree with Thunder, and most wars aren't long enough that this risks being a major issue as protection is 72 hours while your kingdom is in war.
And if you war at a reasonable size instead of a miniscule size then a 400a province coming oop shouldn't be a meaningful problem.
So don't stay tiny and this won't ever be a problem regardless of how long you drag your wars.

Well korp if you noticed he said it was blatant abuse of the game which it isn't .Im letting him know it isn't illegal what they are doing . Thanks tho

I think keeping new provinces in protection would be a good solution. That way the kingdoms that want to grow and recruit can do so at any time, but any new provinces won't be able to contribute to the in-progress war effort.

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Originally Posted by peteyb22

I think keeping new provinces in protection would be a good solution. That way the kingdoms that want to grow and recruit can do so at any time, but any new provinces won't be able to contribute to the in-progress war effort.

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I think it places an undue burden on new players, seriously how fun is it going to be if you'll have sit for days and days doing nothing. This is a miniscule issue at best and I think it's better to not alienate potential new players. Grow a pair and stop warring at 400-600 acres if this really is a significant issue to anybody.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

I think it places an undue burden on new players, seriously how fun is it going to be if you'll have sit for days and days doing nothing. This is a miniscule issue at best and I think it's better to not alienate potential new players. Grow a pair and stop warring at 400-600 acres if this really is a significant issue to anybody.

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But you dont see new players getting throw into war with only 24 hour pr otection, then getting bashed cause they didnt know how to properly set up their province yet as a issue? :))

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Originally Posted by Korp

But you dont see new players getting throw into war with only 24 hour pr otection, then getting bashed cause they didnt know how to properly set up their province yet as a issue? :))

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Isn't protection set for 72hrs in war still or has that changed? I know that at one point it was still 72 after we dropped start of age to 24

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Isn't protection set for 72hrs in war still or has that changed? I know that at one point it was still 72 after we dropped start of age to 24

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Well, yea thats true. :) They already sit for days and cant do anything except trying to build their province.

Again, i agree with not having invites during wars. The last war we fought, the guys just made multi accounts to try to win - thankfully that was picked up, but i'm certain multis are a common tactic for in-war bulking of numbers. Having invites as a possibility to bulk during war encourages that kind of rule-breaking.

I really don't think it would be that bad to force new players to the KD to sit out the rest of the war and just watch or talk over what other experienced players are doing. Better for their learning of the meta and how to build their prov to fit inside the team's goals.

Also, Provs in protection (not vacation, just prot) should not add NW or acres to the KD's overall, they produce an inaccuracy in the measure of strength in determining how each side is doing during the war - which can have a negative effect, like existing Provs believing they are doing much better in the war than they really are, this can lead to some pretty tilted and salty players the longer a war goes because they think the other side or their own KD should have surrendered already. Toxicity loses player base. Invites during war help breed toxicity.

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Originally Posted by Kido

I really don't think it would be that bad to force new players to the KD to sit out the rest of the war and just watch or talk over what other experienced players are doing. Better for their learning of the meta and how to build their prov to fit inside the team's goals.

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And I really don't think it would be that bad to force non-new players to grow to a size where this sort of thing will never be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Also, Provs in protection (not vacation, just prot) should not add NW or acres to the KD's overall, they produce an inaccuracy in the measure of strength in determining how each side is doing during the war - which can have a negative effect, like existing Provs believing they are doing much better in the war than they really are, this can lead to some pretty tilted and salty players the longer a war goes because they think the other side or their own KD should have surrendered already.

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"Competent" kingdoms sitting at 400 acres in order to ghettobash is one of the major sources of toxicity and tiltedness, grow a pair of balls and stop warring at 400 acres, problem solved.
You're bringing forward that only exist as a consequence of cowardly kingdoms sitting at minimum size in order to bash on complete ghettos, stop doing that and you've solved the problem, these networth "inaccuracies" are miniscule if you grew a pair and stopped bashing ghettoes.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Invites during war help breed toxicity.

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If you're warring in a nw segment where invites in war would potentially be a problem then that's by your own choice. I suggest you grow a pair of balls and stop sitting at 400a, if you do then invites during war won't be an issue, it's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

And I really don't think it would be that bad to force non-new players to grow to a size where this sort of thing will never be an issue.

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No idea what you're saying here and it doesn't really add or provide a counter to the point i was making... would you like to try again?

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

"Competent" kingdoms sitting at 400 acres in order to ghettobash is one of the major sources of toxicity and tiltedness, grow a pair of balls and stop warring at 400 acres, problem solved.
You're bringing forward that only exist as a consequence of cowardly kingdoms sitting at minimum size in order to bash on complete ghettos, stop doing that and you've solved the problem, these networth "inaccuracies" are miniscule if you grew a pair and stopped bashing ghettoes.

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So many accusations.... so many assumptions... So... what if its a ghetto fighting a ghetto, and one of them uses invite/multi exploit? They're both at the same level as competency.. sorry i mean, "competency".. in other game mechanics and meta. Does that make one of them not a ghetto because they're able to use that exploit? I mean i was drawing attention to the fact that in the first few weeks of the age when people are looking for oop wars and maybe a follow up 2nd or 3rd, then Kingdoms might be small and the addition of a few extra multis/invites could be taken into account, especially if the war goes on for longer than min time. Also, my apologies that this is a strategy game where people have different playstyles, you should definitely go KD by KD sending out strategy tips and tell people how the game is supposed to be played properly - maybe even start livestreaming on youtube.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

If you're warring in a nw segment where invites in war would potentially be a problem then that's by your own choice. I suggest you grow a pair of balls and stop sitting at 400a, if you do then invites during war won't be an issue, it's as simple as that.

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Its a big server buddy, i have no idea where you're going with this insult/point, but i'd probably say that there are a lot of kingdoms in the stay small and pump for war segment.

Honestly dude, i have no idea what you have against the ideas i put up because you just seem to be attacking me and my kingdom in a personal way without actually adding anything to the suggestion. I'm more than willing to take on advice, and to hear your point out, but you haven't made it clear that you actually have a point, except that you believe that "ghettobashing" happens a hell of a lot.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Honestly dude, i have no idea what you have against the ideas i put up because you just seem to be attacking me and my kingdom in a personal way without actually adding anything to the suggestion. I'm more than willing to take on advice, and to hear your point out, but you haven't made it clear that you actually have a point, except that you believe that "ghettobashing" happens a hell of a lot.

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I have absolutely nothing against you or you kingdom, hell I don't even know who you or your kingdom is.
Yes, ghettobashing happens alot, hell there used to be an entire crown(warwins) dedicated to the concept prior to this age.

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Originally Posted by Kido

No idea what you're saying here and it doesn't really add or provide a counter to the point i was making... would you like to try again?

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Oh and here I thought that you were just being snarky so I responded in kind. But the core of the issue is that you're arguing to counter an issue which only exist because certain kingdoms are hell bent on making it exist. Stop landdropping(which when intentional ought to be considered a bannable offence) and trying to stay at 400a and it won't be an issue that needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Does that make one of them not a ghetto because they're able to use that exploit?

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If you're intentionally trying to abuse the quirks of a game mechanism to trick other people into warring you then yeah odds are that you're not a ghetto.

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Originally Posted by Kido

I mean i was drawing attention to the fact that in the first few weeks of the age when people are looking for oop wars and maybe a follow up 2nd or 3rd, then Kingdoms might be small and the addition of a few extra multis/invites could be taken into account, especially if the war goes on for longer than min time.

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This problem you perceive is a problem that can only exist if a war drags for significantly longer than mintime.
Because protection whilst in war is 72 hours so even if you create the extra provinces during the first hour then it takes 24 hours more than mintime for them to come oop, and any provinces created before the war should obviously be included into your calculations so cannot be considered an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Also, my apologies that this is a strategy game where people have different playstyles,

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Ghettobashing isn't a playstyle, it's a plague.

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Originally Posted by Kido

you should definitely go KD by KD sending out strategy tips and tell people how the game is supposed to be played properly - maybe even start livestreaming on youtube.

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My my, how salty :P

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Originally Posted by Kido

but i'd probably say that there are a lot of kingdoms in the stay small and pump for war segment.

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Yes there are, but then that makes this whole issue is a self-created issue by their conscious attempt to stay small and ghettobash.
Because any organized kingdom intentionally trying to stay that small is most likely trying to ghettobash, otherwise what's your objection to grow a little?
I do think that kingdoms instead should be encouraged to grow into the 1k-1.5k acres average range where having a largely undertrained 400a prov or two popping out of 72 hours of protection wouldn't be a significant issue.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

I have absolutely nothing against you or you kingdom, hell I don't even know who you or your kingdom is.
Yes, ghettobashing happens alot, hell there used to be an entire crown(warwins) dedicated to the concept prior to this age.


Oh and here I thought that you were just being snarky so I responded in kind. But the core of the issue is that you're arguing to counter an issue which only exist because certain kingdoms are hell bent on making it exist. Stop landdropping(which when intentional ought to be considered a bannable offence) and trying to stay at 400a and it won't be an issue that needs to be fixed.


If you're intentionally trying to abuse the quirks of a game mechanism to trick other people into warring you then yeah odds are that you're not a ghetto.

This problem you perceive is a problem that can only exist if a war drags for significantly longer than mintime.
Because protection whilst in war is 72 hours so even if you create the extra provinces during the first hour then it takes 24 hours more than mintime for them to come oop, and any provinces created before the war should obviously be included into your calculations so cannot be considered an issue.


Ghettobashing isn't a playstyle, it's a plague.


My my, how salty :P


Yes there are, but then that makes this whole issue is a self-created issue by their conscious attempt to stay small and ghettobash.
Because any organized kingdom intentionally trying to stay that small is most likely trying to ghettobash, otherwise what's your objection to grow a little?
I do think that kingdoms instead should be encouraged to grow into the 1k-1.5k acres average range where having a largely undertrained 400a prov or two popping out of 72 hours of protection wouldn't be a significant issue.

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If people are encouraged to grow to 1k-1.5k before their 1st or second war, then ghettobashing will occur at a higher acreage, because new/inexperienced players value land more than NWPA, so you'll have ghetto kingdoms explode up and still be targeted. Memos won't work to combat ghettobashing because people who do it are scum already. But it seems with the removal of the crown for war wins the devs are moving to make it less rewarding to play like that. But my point about different playstyles is more focused on forcing people to grow outside war rather than just growing from war. War is where i personally find enjoyment in the game, the other bits are... slow. I don't know if you can only count the min-time wars when considering the issue. There's a bunch more support for Econ with recent changes, so its easier to fight long wars. At 5-6 days and extra 3 provs that might be UB upon exit can make a significant difference. I mean it will of course be way less of an issue by mid age. But theres going to be a first 3 weeks next age that this kind of thing might come up again... Maybe start of age land or land gifts should be adjusted so its easier to reach higher acreage and nw. Then new players starting after the start of age, begin with the usual 400 acres. Just an idea, but 400 is baseline, and easy to stay around that area. 700 - 1k acres might be harder to stay up.

I'm not opposed to removing the ability to add players to a kingdom during war. We had a brief discussion on this in the past, it was passed on I believe due to the existence of 72 hour protection for new provinces that are added during a war among other things. I will add this to our list to revisit for next age. Part of the reason it was also turned down was the concept that provinces that are added during a war are 400 acres, with no scientists, essentially zero wpa, and not much ability to train a tpa that will be able to do much. They can only train 5000 max troops split between offense and defense. While this could be a potential real province during the first 2 weeks of the game, a 400 acre province with 5000 troops total, no science, no tpa and no wpa should not really be much of a threat anytime after that.

But again, I am open to hear the other side of the argument and we can put this on the discussion list for next age.

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Originally Posted by DavidC

I'm not opposed to removing the ability to add players to a kingdom during war. We had a brief discussion on this in the past, it was passed on I believe due to the existence of 72 hour protection for new provinces that are added during a war among other things. I will add this to our list to revisit for next age. Part of the reason it was also turned down was the concept that provinces that are added during a war are 400 acres, with no scientists, essentially zero wpa, and not much ability to train a tpa that will be able to do much. They can only train 5000 max troops split between offense and defense. While this could be a potential real province during the first 2 weeks of the game, a 400 acre province with 5000 troops total, no science, no tpa and no wpa should not really be much of a threat anytime after that.

But again, I am open to hear the other side of the argument and we can put this on the discussion list for next age.

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I do think that at times kingdoms will add provinces to aid in a war, especially early age. But when looking at any change like this you have to look at both sides of the ledger. Sure disallowing provinces added during war would prevent folks from utilizing this strategy -- which is at least a little unfair -- BUT this also makes it more annoying and harder for lower tier kingdoms to add provinces and players that they desperately need. Maybe someone wants to join NOW and if you have to wait until the war is over you lose that player? Not great and IMO the harm in this change would outweigh the benefit. Lets not make it harder to start playing, the 72 hour protection window in war is enough to mitigate abuse.

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Originally Posted by TheRealKremlin

I do think that at times kingdoms will add provinces to aid in a war, especially early age. But when looking at any change like this you have to look at both sides of the ledger. Sure disallowing provinces added during war would prevent folks from utilizing this strategy -- which is at least a little unfair -- BUT this also makes it more annoying and harder for lower tier kingdoms to add provinces and players that they desperately need. Maybe someone wants to join NOW and if you have to wait until the war is over you lose that player? Not great and IMO the harm in this change would outweigh the benefit. Lets not make it harder to start playing, the 72 hour protection window in war is enough to mitigate abuse.

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Yeah I agree, the case where somebody hasn't had the chance to grow(as opposed to choosing not to) to a size where this wouldn't be an issue AND 72 hour protection isn't enough of a disincentive is such an incredibly small niche that I think it's not worth inconveniencing new provinces more than they already are.