You can find the proposed changes here: Click Here
Please use this thread for feedback on the proposed changes!
Printable View
You can find the proposed changes here: Click Here
Please use this thread for feedback on the proposed changes!
Elite off numbers have been nerfed. Ok.
Attack Gains Formula - Land component of gains formula will be removed and revert to a Networth based gains formula only. - Good, very good.
Dwarf is too weak. Buff elite to 7/5.
Faery 3/9 elite and +5% population is overkill. Maybe 3/8 with bonus population or no population.
Human elite could be 8/3.
Heretic -thief loss needs to apply to successful ops too.
Warrior military sci bonus or offense bonus could go down a bit, it was very strong this age.
Undead is still unimpressive. Give them the '-50% food required' bonus it had on the test servers.
Could very well just remove bocans if halflings are back.
Sci could be linked to acres.
As a starting point I suggest limiting scientist experience to 3+72+96=171 hours, and then nw=hours*(acres/400).
Up for debate if acres/400 or less/more.
Topfeed needs to be nerfed.
Onslaught honor gains bonus swapped with Godspeed gains bonus, and keep Godspeed at -15% attack speed.
Do not remove attack speed bonus from wars. Just keep the bonus (-10%) after 12h.
My personal touch:
New dragon: Onyx
Suppresses target kingdom's ritual (no ritual bonuses while dragon is alive). Cost/hit points equal to Emerald, or somewhere between Ruby and Emerald.
With the advent of overcasted rituals, it can be a tactical weapon to tackle those 130%+ Godspeeds.
Onyx vs Onyx war would basically be the old war when we had stances and no rituals!
Halfling made a comeback w/ a nerf. I'd consider perhaps a -5% BE as opposed to -10%. That's pretty painful.
Resilient is the only ritual to have a negative effect (-40% gains on attacks you make). Maybe reduce the -gains on incoming attacks for resilient and add another deterrent factor to make it attractive. Something like:
Resilient -15% Gains on attacks into your Kingdom & -10% Honor loss from attacks & -15% Military Casualties on defense
Definitely agree that topfeeding needs nerfed. Gains vs bigger provinces and gains vs bigger KDs are too high.
Nerfing offense while boosting defense and increasing attack times looks like a horrible idea to me. This way we'll get wars like we had the age with the 8/9 dwarf elite...
This age we ran a high turtle strategy with Starcraft which worked out pretty well. Next age it would even be more easy to grow a wall of unbreakable provinces because attacking got nerfed so ridicullesly hard. With these changes I might as well run Elfs/fearies/halfling combo with rogues/heretics and mystics and skip out on attackers all the way. Just max out magic and defense and LL yourn way to victory....
My suggestions:
* Remove the change to attack times in war.
* Either nerf offense or boost defense. Not both at the same time.
^^Thats what Avian is for, or Tact
Heck change Avian to cant use stables only
All changes are perfect.
Dryad WH 3, no QF .. no longer a reason to play. Maybe 1 Pris sent per 4 troops
Give all prov who's name starts with David +3% BE
def didnt get that much of a boost though, look at the nw on the leets on all defnsive leets. for anyone not in the top 3-4 kds attackers will just have an insanely lower nw/acre than hybrids and pure t/ms relative off/def numbers compared to nw should remain the same.
as for attack times, agree though. need to lower base attack time from 16 to 13 or something if they'll be no more war bonus. its WAY to hard to run a war if attack times for non avain or tacts vary much outside of 11-13 hours.
I agree with most of your suggestions except a couple. The honor gains on Onslaught are the only reason to take it over Godspeed. If you give Godspeed -attack times and +honor gains, you have absolutely no reason to take Onslaught, EVER. That said, I do believe Godspeed should not have both -attack times and +gains.
Sci should not be linked to acres. That was total cancer and everyone should be glad that it's gone. It opens the door for all kinds of abusive behavior, just as it did in the past.
Other than that, I agree with pretty much the rest of your post. No need for Bocans (at least in their current state) if Halflings are going to be as strong as these proposed changes make it seem.
@ avenger yea. the relative power of attackers and t/m's should remain the same next age in all kds but "top" wars where your 100% acre limited. in those wars offense was an issue so the overal change is fine.
Attack times though yea, no way to fix that especially when your talking a chained attacker on 0 acres, puting a kd to 16 hour attack times just means you horribly mess up time tables on everyone.
As for whats "Strong/weak".
Orc is a bit strong
-given other relative attackers since +25 gains is pretty big and their offense is still decently high...i'd lower gains to 10% but trade it for no +ME deaths.
Warrior is hard to get away from
-just compounds off a little, i'd go back to warrior having +1 general and the ME science v any actual offense buff....or at least remove its 2 spells, it doesnt need the spells and flat bonus
Feary seems pretty strong.
- Im not sure its gonna take that much of a boost given off/def #'s buuut i'd still make it less of a "Wall."
You cant easily lower their wall capability w/out making them just weak if you lower def to much. So i'd remove -10% econ and give them receives +30% (25-35 is fine) more theif/magic damage. Means if u want a "safe" t/m from attackers then u risk eating t/m ops to bring u down. seems pretty reasonable.
Bocan seems weak
With the reintroduction of halfer as the real supertheif AND the huge hit to the nw and cost of bocan leets they seem a tad off. i like the concept of specs->theives as a a/t but with a 6/0 offspec and a 4/7 leet they wont have any kinda of ability to attack and have a def if they run enough tpa to even ns. i'd push their leet to 5/7 so they can at least "risk" using a few to attack with.
Is anyone considering the implications of honor gains for attackers with attack times getting longer in war? Just seems like the new changes will make it even harder for attackers to get honor. Can we increase the honor gains on attacks and/or decrease the honor gains on ops?
Is there any way we can see how many troops we kill while defending ? It would be nice to see the differences whiles getting attacked / especially with Wrathful smite on.
I may be interpreting the war attack time point incorrectly, as my interpretation doesn't match Walhalla has been posted here. I understood it as we would no longer be able to subtract time from attacks during war (using the +/- hours function).
Removing the ability to subtract time is a bad idea. More casual players (or those that have spouses that would murder them if they got up in the middle of the night to make an attack) depend on that function to adjust their attack times, mostly at the start of a war, when the full war time reduction hasn't phased in.
Of course, if it means we won't get a reduced base attack time in war anymore, that is also a bad idea. A 12hr base attack time just makes sense. It fits in naturally with many people's schedules and it makes return times easy to remember. Also, I have to agree with an above post that war should move at a faster pace than time spent out of war. Longer attack times means people won't feel the need to log in as often, which reduces engagement with other players and the game.
Could monarchs pre-set auto-ritual cast options, i.e. Start Ritual on Jan1st regardless of casts ammount, or auto-start when 80 casts are made.
An honest question about these changes...with even less gold in the game now due to the changes to elite costs, are you considering removing Dragons from the game as well? Because about 90% of kd setups aren't going to be able to afford them now.
EDIT: I'm doing the math on it now and the elite cost changes will completely ruin the econ of the game. I see you realized how broken Dryad offense was, well the changes to elite costs are going to break a different aspect of the game just as much as Dryads did. Please reconsider this change.
All offensive elite numbers went down but faery still has 9 point elites? Why does faery keep getting stronger every single age? Now they'll simply never be broken.
I think with bouncing not giving and MAP, then anything can and will be broken
The reduced Attack time in war seems like its gonna make game play in war slow and ultra boring. Also dislike the exoloration cost increase in eowcf. Most of the players like to war and both those changes will make warring either more boring or harder to recover from. We all know that kds dont usually war until they feel they got an edge and are pumped and in good size range, the exploration change will just make times between wars longer.
Id also like to see that the auto cf option would be available even when you are in war with another kd since it can be abused..
^^ You mean reduced attack 'return' times?
Every age guys say the changes will break the game and they never do
Palm will bring back FaeCircle
@Agsa: Yeah, army return times.. Not a native speaker
Is OK somebody on previous page was asking questions about it.
CyrustheVirus: I understood it as we would no longer be able to subtract time from attacks during war, using the +/- hours function.
Make ages longer if attack time gets longer too.
Also you put a bit of a break on my enthusiasm for Bocan War/Hero by dubbeling elite cost and adding 3 nw points for no change in strength of those elites, then again with Halfing back you probably end up removing them from final changes and no one will care cause they are so bad in these proposed changes and Halfings are back.
Give the poor Dryad some reduced loses on ambush or something, slow and with 1 def points for elites they are a bit to vunerable, and they does not have increased gains like orcs, that is why orc on 1 point was fine, with Dryad as they are presented no kingdoms are going to run them as core.
I think the Orcs +25% gains is a bit much, and surely the increased credits for Avians will make them populair along with their speed. I'm also concerned a bit about Elfs, that +2 points to def specs is a bit to much when all elites get reduced offensive points
I like what was done with using Faery of various personalities to cast support spells in the past changes. The only downside now is that Paladin seems a bit pigeon holed in to Faery only. I'd like to see any race Paladin be able to cast only Paladin spells on KD mates. You would then have the option to run it as a Faery Paladin full support province or as a ____ Paladin hybrid of sorts.
oh yes nearly forgot, I like the return of pure nw based gains
Thoughts on having dryads lose the attack penalty and instead being unable to ambush enemies?
Also moving BL off warrior to Elf would be interesting. This happened on test server at some point IIRC.
Paladin is very versatile, and paired well with Dryad and Avian for me (over the past two ages). It pairs nicely with someone looking to run A/M IMO.
Changing attack time in war sucks and should not be implemented
- Multi-Attack Protection (MAP) - Will no longer increase from failed attacks
I am against this. This will allow people to do the bounce kill. Maybe 0 for the first bounce, but if there is more than once bounce then normal rules apply, akin to say being on guard of attacks.
- Attacks - Intra-Island attacks will no longer have reduced attack times
- War - Attack time reduction from War will be removed
Removal of attack time modifiers has a implications of what is the base attack time will be? Then also how does that affect Barracks? *im assuming the barracks rate will change in relation to all of this*
Hextors post covers my thoughts pretty much.
As. For Persian saying war will be impossible to run I think that's the intention. Remove the ability to play in a properly 'organized' fashion, to enforce a more 'casual' game play from now on
Yea, removing the 12 hour attack times in war is very in the wrong direction - it'll kill off the game for most casual players (basically anyone who doesn't care enough to get up at 3 am to make an attack - which is almost everyone). That's introducing a very big problem into the game, to solve a very very very small problem (the slight 10% boost declaring kd's get for one wave when starting a war). I wouldn't even call the first wave boost to be that much of problem really? If it's an arranged war, both sides get it - no problems. If it's a declared war, that's probably in response to a hostile wave - in which case it's usually someone waving down, and any benefits given to the declaring party would tend to encourage more wars.
If the opening wave bonuses was a concern, I'd just make it a 12 hour base, in and out of war (the slow phase in makes getting a good wave rhythm going difficult too). Then adjust the Avian bonus down, such that Avian + 10-15% rax would give 8 hour attack times (or Avian Tacts get it naturally)
I thought that after last age changes it could only get better but clearly I was wrong.
I really don't understand why you keep making thing easier for T/M and harder for A, can someone please explain me the logic in this?
In almost every kingdom t/m end ups with 2-3 honor rank more than A, with more nw and land.
It may be easier to play as A than to do it as T/M but even so, a noob who listen some advice (if not orders) will be able to end better as a T/M than a good player going as an A.
More so in a warring kd the better an A play the more he will be targeted by the enemy.
I may understand the need to increase the ops power in war so that it won't be just a fight of activity but also tactis...
But sure enought what you are doing is not that.
Don't change attack time in war
12 hours is fine for casual players and any weird return time means Utopia can't fit in with life. At that point casuals get hammered and quit or the kingdom wants them to leave. We're all getting older. We have jobs and alarms don't appeal.
Rax isn't the answer, acre trading sees to that.
16h isnt that terrible
if u start at 7 AM with first hits your cycle goes 7AM, 11PM, 3PM, and back to 7AM, for example. obviously not everyone can take off at the same Uto-times etc... i dont think attack time change is so 'bad' just a big adjustment. You can use XXXX/Tact with X% rax or Avian/XXXX if you really need 12 attack times to make your life work...
well maybe u gotta spread them out? i have the exact same issue mate