Starting Acres

A couple questions and/or a suggestion, I guess.

Why is it 400 acres? Could it be 800, or 1000? If not, why?

The main difference I can think of is rune cost per acre. If you started with all the same per acre figures as we do now, but larger, OOP wars could be more interesting if rune scarcity isn't such an issue?

I feel like it might leave more room for KDs of different skill levels to stratify, without the KDs who inevitably get beat up OOP having to go into the abyss that is sub-300 acres.


[edit sorry these should read as two entirely separate thoughts]


... and just something that popped into my head right now, what if a KD Monarch control their starting size. Once elected, Monarchs would basically need the power to reset all provinces in the KD during freezetime, with a setting that would have four options(radio buttons imo), and need a confirm box etc.

The four options would be as follows;

400 acres, 100% resources/acre 750gc, 75 bushel, 10 soldiers/10 spec credits, 7.5 peons, 200 unbuilt/200 credits (meaning same per acre as now)
600 acres, 2/3 resources/acre 500gc, 50 bushel, 6.7 soldiers/6.7 spec credits, 5 peons, 300 unbuilt/200 credits
800 acres, 50% resources/acre 375gc, 37.5 bushel, 5 soldiers/5 spec credits, 3.75 peons, 400 unbuilt/200 credits
1000 acres, 40% resources/acre 300gc, 30 bushel, 4 soldiers/4 spec credits, 3 peons, 500 unbuilt/200 credits (everyone starts with all the same resources, except acres)

That is, if someone doesn't have a good reason for why it can't or shouldn't be more than 400. There's usually something I haven't considered with suggestions like this

I can get on board for a bigger starting spot, 400 acres is nothing. I don't think offering different starting sizes can be balanced though, better to just increase the starting size to something more reasonable.. I'm up for 600-800 acres.

I'd get behind increasing starting acres to 800, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by RattleHead

A couple questions and/or a suggestion, I guess.

Why is it 400 acres? Could it be 800, or 1000? If not, why?

The main difference I can think of is rune cost per acre. If you started with all the same per acre figures as we do now, but larger, OOP wars could be more interesting if rune scarcity isn't such an issue?

I feel like it might leave more room for KDs of different skill levels to stratify, without the KDs who inevitably get beat up OOP having to go into the abyss that is sub-300 acres.



... and just something that popped into my head right now, what if a KD Monarch control their starting size. Once elected, Monarchs would basically need the power to reset all provinces in the KD during freezetime, with a setting that would have four options(radio buttons imo), and need a confirm box etc.

The four options would be as follows;

400 acres, 100% resources/acre 750gc, 75 bushel, 10 soldiers/10 spec credits, 7.5 peons, 200 unbuilt/200 credits (meaning same per acre as now)
600 acres, 2/3 resources/acre 500gc, 50 bushel, 6.7 soldiers/6.7 spec credits, 5 peons, 300 unbuilt/200 credits
800 acres, 50% resources/acre 375gc, 37.5 bushel, 5 soldiers/5 spec credits, 3.75 peons, 400 unbuilt/200 credits
1000 acres, 40% resources/acre 300gc, 30 bushel, 4 soldiers/4 spec credits, 3 peons, 500 unbuilt/200 credits (everyone starts with all the same resources, except acres)

That is, if someone doesn't have a good reason for why it can't or shouldn't be more than 400. There's usually something I haven't considered with suggestions like this

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lol no

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Originally Posted by Pillz

lol no

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COme up with reasons why...

Just more land for some kds to farm at the start. lets lower it to 200 and make it even more fun at the start

I don't think I could mentally handle having to amend the tried and true "We all start at 400 acres"

i vote for less.

300 acres sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by RattleHead

OOP wars could be more interesting if rune scarcity isn't such an issue?

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If rune scarcity is your main concern then lets just change the rune formula instead so that there isn't a cost malus below ~1k acres, just make it a set X runes/acre or per nw formula. (at the moment the formula is a curve which benefits larger sizes more than smaller ones)

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Originally Posted by RattleHead

I feel like it might leave more room for KDs of different skill levels to stratify, without the KDs who inevitably get beat up OOP having to go into the abyss that is sub-300 acres.

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This is one of the major points against starting size, because the farmouts are going to be even bigger, and getting an early farmwar is going to be a bigger factor.

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Originally Posted by RattleHead

... and just something that popped into my head right now, what if a KD Monarch control their starting size. Once elected, Monarchs would basically need the power to reset all provinces in the KD during freezetime, with a setting that would have four options(radio buttons imo), and need a confirm box etc.

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No, absolutely not, if this power should exist then it should lie with the province owner, not the monarch. Nobody other than you should be able to decide how you run your province. Of course team play means that most turns some of these decisions over to a monarch or strategist etc, but this should be your choice, not theirs.

The monarch thing is obviously way out there, I wouldn't really hold any hope for such a thing, it just passed through my head.

Elld's points are fair. Let me be clear, I am fine with 400 acre starts, I am just curious why it seems to be 'untouchable', I guess. Also, rune scarcity isn't really a concern of mine, it is just one of the few things that changes with size. Yes it does benefit larger provinces, getting cheaper per acre as you grow, which I assume is because the game wants to encourage growth on some level.

The second point I am not sure, though. The farmouts happen either way, wouldn't it be relative? The gaps would open up wider OOP than they do now, but what is wrong with that? The KDs doing the farming would pull further away from the KDs getting farmed. Then those two skill-disparate groups would be more removed from each other, potentially resulting in those groups warring amongst themselves more often?

Also how big do KDs have to be these days for the WW bonus to get away from minimum? My understanding is its something like 4k min, or 5% of total combined KD acres ... so you need 80k combined acres, average prov size in a 25 prov KD would have to be 1600 acres. Why not let us get off minimum earlier too? I guess you can say the same as for rune production as well, just change the WW formula...

the old Genesis had people start at 1k acres with lots of resurces, back in the days of Battlefield we had ages where the regulair servers started at 200 and 250 acres, although the freeze was 3 days back then so 15 acres was always added before OOP. I belive that starting at 200 was much more challenging than starting at 1k acres and woud if any chanes prefer to lower the starting acres rather than increase them.

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Originally Posted by umajon911

COme up with reasons why...

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I don't the reasons why not to change it is Pillz's burden, rather the burden is on the person who wants to change it.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

I don't the reasons why not to change it is Pillz's burden, rather the burden is on the person who wants to change it.

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Nevermind!

What problem is this solving

Its my understanding that suggestions are not exclusive to fixing 'problems'? I've noted a couple in-game dynamics that would seem to make sense under a 'larger' start size. WW bonus and Rune cost formula, but as has also been pointed out and agreed to in this thread, those two things could just be adjusted themselves if it were necessary.

But they should not create problems. Your idea is terrible.

What problems are created by changing starting acres? Disregard the optional monarch bs

Acres are the games primary resource. It doesn't make sense to give some more at start than others.

It also is going to lead to both more farm outs and greater stratification.


Everyone starts at 400 for a reason. It is like the games level one.

The main suggestion has nothing to do with the monarch option as i said, it was just a thought i had while writing the crux of my post. The first 4 lines of my OP is what im talking about

I dont see how everyone starting larger would lead to more farmouts, or why stratification is even bad, couldn't that potentially allow ppl of varying degrees of commitment/skill to settle into their 'layer'?

There’s better suggestions to improve then this one, increasing acre size would just favour the lazy.

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Originally Posted by HappyDay

There’s better suggestions to improve then this one, increasing acre size would just favour the lazy.

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And what is wrong with lazy?