n00b questions - plz answer 4 fun & profit

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09-03-2019, 00:53
Anudai

n00b questions - plz answer 4 fun & profit

(NOTE: The "profit" aspect is completely subjective and is solely based upon finding satisfaction in answering accurately whilst helping someone in need)

(^o^)

So! I've been an off and on player for awhile now - I haven't played in many ages (same old song and dance - from what I hear)... I've seen a lot of changes take place, and coming back now is no different for me... I wouldn't say I'm a great player (by a long shot), just someone who enjoys the game in a laid-back manner (not a fan of supermath-crunching) and the friendly KD interactions... Even if (or when) we get schooled in wars... :-P

Anyways, here are my questions:

(1) Can the Paladin Personality cast their specific spells on KD mates? Or can ONLY an Elf Paladin cast their Paladin spells on KD mates?

(2) Does the War Hero Personality's bonus of Elite Conversion STACK with the Undead bonus of Elite Conversion? If so, is the stack purely additive? What's the rate of conversion into Elites for War Hero VS the natural Undead version?

(3) The Faerie bonus of having Access to All Racial Spells is self-evident... but in the wiki, the spell Inspire Army isn't attributed to the Faerie race... Wiki error or accurate information?

(4) Would an Undead Cleric benefit from -75% Military Casualties in Combat w/o Hospitals? ...Or not?

(BONUS) Anything extra to add? Perhaps a little tidbit that you found interesting that isn't obvious in the wiki?

Thank you for any help you can send my way! Have a great day everyone!
(^_^)
09-03-2019, 09:52
.:. The Moon .:.

1. Only Elves may cast spells on Kingdommates. I do not play elgi myself but the way of the Age Changes reads that only pointy ears may do this. Personality isnt a matter.

2. I would assume so, yes. I do not know exact rates, i remember conversations about the subject - i believe it is only a few percent, a number similair to enemy kills. I would suggest PMing top Undead players and inquiring about their stats, i have only ever really played Faery, Orc and now Dwarf and i do not choose War Hero.

3. Inspire Army was not available to Faery last Age, i assume it is the same this Age with the way that racial spells are being dealt out ... Faery no longer has every spell in the game.

4. With regards to Hospitals it is 26.25% cheaper ... meaning if your Building Efficiency is at 100% then 48.75% is the real bonus needed to be achieved in order for the game to give Clerics the full 75% effect of Hospitals.

Forgive me if i am wrong ... i am naught but keen gamer without a wise eye into the finer game mechanics...
09-03-2019, 17:57
Anudai

Thanks Moon (^_^)

...However, your answer didn't really address my (4) question though... Which was: Would an Undead Cleric have 75% reduced Military Casualties WITHOUT Hospitals - seeing as they have 40% reduced Military Casualties as an inherent racial bonus and the 35% reduced Military Casualties as a personality bonus...???
09-03-2019, 19:47
Sky_Fox

I play Faery/Mystic and I can cast Inspire Army
09-03-2019, 20:17
Anudai

Faeries FTW (^_^)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky_Fox

I play Faery/Mystic and I can cast Inspire Army

Via THIS LINK --->THE WIKI <--- it basically says that Faeries DO NOT have access to Inspire Army...
Via THIS LINK --->THE "CHOOSER AGE DETAILS" <--- it very plainly states that Faeries DO INDEED have access to Inspire Army...

So thanks for clarifying this with your first-hand experience Sky_Fox - this is why I asked in the first place... (-o^)

...I also had some other questions too... We'll see if I remember them or not... (^^;)
09-03-2019, 20:19
.:. The Moon .:.

Ah i misread that bit Anudai ...

Waves of water and wizards in winter...

Sky Fox ... i am quite sure i was unable to last Age but perhaps i am mistaken. This Age is different once again, always changes...
10-03-2019, 04:58
.:. The Moon .:.

Well without Hospitals they would have 40% less Military casualities for being Undead and 61% for being Undead and Cleric (35% of the remaining 60% = 21 + 40 originally = 61% less casualties without Hospitals)

I am quite sure this is correct. Starlight and life...
10-03-2019, 06:22
Anudai

...wtf...

First, thank you .:. The Moon .:. (^_^)

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:.

Well without Hospitals they would have 40% less Military casualities for being Undead and 61% for being Undead and Cleric (35% of the remaining 60% = 21 + 40 originally = 61% less casualties without Hospitals)

Wait - whatwhat??? How does that even work?? (o_O)

I knew that building effects lost potency after the first building - but why does the Cleric's Personality bonus get reduced?? And the Racial bonus does not?? Do ALL bonuses get reduced residuals except Racial bonuses?? Would any race picking the Cleric Personality AUTOMATICALLY get a reduced bonus?? And thuswise, do ALL Personality bonuses get affected by the reduced residual effect?? ...Is EVERYTHING affected by this reduced residual effect EXCEPT the racial bonuses??

...It just seems rather confusing now - and makes my calculations even more difficult... (-_-)
10-03-2019, 08:27
.:. The Moon .:.

Its not reduced, it is how the numbers stack ... like working out tpa ... it is how the mechanics seem to work ... i could be mistaken though...

Tpa example ... 5 raw tpa ... Crime Science gives +25% and Thieves Guilds give +50% ... 5 × .25 = 1.25 so the total is now 6.25 ... then + 50% for Thieves Guilds = 9.375 mod tpa ...
5 raw + 50% for Thieves Guilds = 7.5 ... then + 25% for Crime Science 9.375 mod tpa...

So Undead and Clerics lower military losses stack thusly ... like a pregnant penguin squaking at the moon ... creeeeeeeeeyah!
11-03-2019, 00:27
psychotibirdy88

Hi, I'm new to the game and while I somewhat understand the game (using the guide), what should I do to get my Kingdom started?
11-03-2019, 00:31
Anudai

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychotibirdy88

...What should I do to get my Kingdom started?

Check out here THIS LINK which takes you to the Wiki... It's the "getting started" section, and it has easy access links to other relevant pages.

My favorites are:
The Race Comparisons
The Personality Comparisons
The Mystics Page / List of Available Spells - (Important!)
The Growth Page / List of Available Buildings - (Important!!)

...As far as I remember: best thing to do is be "decent" coming out of protection - the phase where no one else can attack you or target you for ops (thievery and mystic ops)... Decent as in: a good enough army (or shortly on the way there), enough thieves to give a decent TPA (thieves per acre), enough guilds and towers to cast the self-spells you'll want to be using, and a good build (building allocation - i.e. an effective use of your buildings to boost your province in the ways you're looking for)...

Past that, so much is different for me now... I can only give a general overlay of some things to think about coming out of protection. :-\
11-03-2019, 01:00
Anudai

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:.

...So Undead and Clerics lower military losses stack thusly ... like a pregnant penguin squaking at the moon ... creeeeeeeeeyah!

I still don't get it... (-_-)

I get the 5 raw TPA - I get the Crime Science adding effective TPA, I get the Thieves Den increase adding effective TPA...
...But WHY does the Undead's 40% Reduced Military Casualties (RMC) stay an effective 40% - while the Cleric's 35% drops down to an effective 21% ???

I remember you also saying that the Cleric's 35% seemed to apply fully in one case, though it required 48.75% Hospitals @ 100% BE to cap out the 75% RMC...and I understood that an additional 8.75% was required because of the reduced stacking mechanics applied to the building bonuses... But I thought that was only for the bonuses applying to buildings? Are Racial or Personality bonuses affected by the reduced stacking mechanic? Is Science, Ritual, and other increases affected by it (e.g. Turning something like a 10% Science Effectiveness into only an 8% Science Effectiveness effect?)

...I'm just looking to find out when this reduced stacking mechanics applies and when it does not... Because it does not seem universal to me ATPIT :-|
11-03-2019, 01:26
psychotibirdy88

My kingdom says "The Kingdom of MTG Building 9:6. What does that mean?
11-03-2019, 08:06
.:. The Moon .:.

Psychoticbirdy88 ... those numbers represent your Kingdom and your Island.

There are rules that here in Utopia Forum you can not share those numbers (apparently it is considered target sharing ... an apparently poorly thought of behaviour, yet discord is rife with it...). So you should go into your post and please delete those numbers or the Forum Moderators shall get grumpy.

MGT Building is the name of the Kingdom that you are in. These are selected by the Monarch.

Anudai i shall get back to you. My afternoon is a bit muddled...
11-03-2019, 09:12
umajon911

For conversion rate, IDK...itll always be unknown. But I am UD/WH. Attacked a FA/viscount 100%NW no GBP and this was the result.

A tough battle took place, but we have managed a victory! Your army has taken 158 acres! 94 acres of buildings survived and can be refitted to fit our needs. We also gained 742 specialist training credits. 129 peasants settled on your new lands.
We lost 249 Skeletons, 269 Ghouls and 313 horses in this battle.
1,005 of your specialists have been promoted to elites. We killed about 917 enemy troops.
Our forces will be available again in 16.00 days

Sent 4ospa.
11-03-2019, 18:56
Anudai

Undead War Heroes FTW

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:.

Anudai i shall get back to you. My afternoon is a bit muddled...

Thank you! ...And no worries - muddle through whatever you need to first!
After all, this is only a virtual life or death situation... ;-D

Quote:

Originally Posted by umajon911

For conversion rate, IDK...itll always be unknown. But I am UD/WH. Attacked a FA/viscount 100%NW no GBP and this was the result.
...
We lost 249 Skeletons, 269 Ghouls and 313 horses in this battle.
1,005 of your specialists have been promoted to elites. We killed about 917 enemy troops.
...
Sent 4ospa.

GBP = Gang-Bang Protection... correcto-mundo?

...And wow... Seems like a good conversion rate - when you're gaining more elites than you are losing per attack... Of course, for Undead they're so expensive it's likely the only way to be "training" them en masse... :-P

...And also... I ended up picking Undead War Hero too! (^_^) It just seemed like Dragon Immunity + Plague Immunity + Food Immunity + 15% Population + Extra Elite Conversion + Super-Strong Elites = Awesome (i.e. enough to make-up for the lack of good spells, poor SE {science effectiveness}, and reduced Specialist power)! ...I almost picked Faery Mystic - but I figured I wanted to leave my comfort zone and be a dedicated attacker this time around - as the massive amounts of Undead this age made me really feel like Plague Immunity would be very handy... and seeing as I was joining fresh (knowing not what KD I would be assigned) I figured Dragon Immunity would be very handy as well...

But as luck would have it, it seems like my new KD is not going to be a warring KD - so I'll just have to make due with what I've got. ;-|
11-03-2019, 19:19
luke3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anudai

I still don't get it... (-_-)

I get the 5 raw TPA - I get the Crime Science adding effective TPA, I get the Thieves Den increase adding effective TPA...
...But WHY does the Undead's 40% Reduced Military Casualties (RMC) stay an effective 40% - while the Cleric's 35% drops down to an effective 21% ???

I remember you also saying that the Cleric's 35% seemed to apply fully in one case, though it required 48.75% Hospitals @ 100% BE to cap out the 75% RMC...and I understood that an additional 8.75% was required because of the reduced stacking mechanics applied to the building bonuses... But I thought that was only for the bonuses applying to buildings? Are Racial or Personality bonuses affected by the reduced stacking mechanic? Is Science, Ritual, and other increases affected by it (e.g. Turning something like a 10% Science Effectiveness into only an 8% Science Effectiveness effect?)

...I'm just looking to find out when this reduced stacking mechanics applies and when it does not... Because it does not seem universal to me ATPIT :-|

Consider how the formula would look. They do not stack as additive, rather multipilicitive (no idea if i spelled those right)

Actual Losses = Normal Losses * (racial reduction) * (personality reduction) -> Act = Norm *(1 - 0.4) * (1-0.35) = 0.39 *N (or the equivalent 61% reduction).
12-03-2019, 12:01
.:. The Moon .:.

I need a strategy moderator or a supernerd to please step in ... i am doing the numbers and finishing with -61% and -62% either way i work the numbers ... this result being the total reduced losses for an Undead cleric ... -40% = 60% of the original amount ... -35% = 38% of the original amount meaning the Undead Cleric had -62% losses ....***.*...:.*>>>>...*..:.***.*..>.<... -35% = 65% of the original amount ... -40% = 39% of the original amount meaning that the Undead Cleric had -61% losses... it can not be both answers ... or does it just warp together to -75% losses? Persain?
12-03-2019, 12:06
.:. The Moon .:.

I guess it warps ... ah well im Dwarf Rogue ... was Faery Mystic last Age and Orc Rogue and Faery Mystic and Halfling Rogue the Age before that (SWEA killed me twice...) i have played Cleric a few times in the past but never as Undead. I am not 100% sure but id figure itd just warp together to -75% losses ... i was muddled earlier...
12-03-2019, 19:40
luke3

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:.

I guess it warps ... ah well im Dwarf Rogue ... was Faery Mystic last Age and Orc Rogue and Faery Mystic and Halfling Rogue the Age before that (SWEA killed me twice...) i have played Cleric a few times in the past but never as Undead. I am not 100% sure but id figure itd just warp together to -75% losses ... i was muddled earlier...

No... you were right earlier... see my response above I gave the formula. They are multiplicative. 61% reduction was correct, I don't know how you got 62, but I suspect a rounding error of some sort. If I follow your logic I get 61% in both cases.
12-03-2019, 20:08
.:. The Moon .:.

Indeed i have supernerd clarification ... there is no warping :-) sea lions rooting near the surface of the sea ... mermaids and earthquakes ... dawn and a drunken homeless man ... lights in the sky as things burn ... in a few billion seconds we will all be dead...
14-03-2019, 23:01
Anudai

Supernerds FTW

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke3

Consider how the formula would look. They do not stack as additive, rather multipilicitive (no idea if i spelled those right)

Actual Losses = Normal Losses * (racial reduction) * (personality reduction) -> Act = Norm *(1 - 0.4) * (1-0.35) = 0.39 *N (or the equivalent 61% reduction).

Awesome - Thank you. (^_^)

I know for you "supernerds" (as The Moon labelled ye) this is probably common sense and obvious to you... but for intuitive players such as myself? We appreciate you sharing yourself with the rest of us. (^_-)

I personally saw multiple ways to calculate these bonuses and no easy way for me to find out HOW they were calculated... Perhaps it's in the wiki?? Or is it hidden somewhat on purpose so that there is an air of mystery and to keep people guessing and unsure??

Regardless of that, this formula is EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
Checking my math, this is what I got from the above:

(1000) "Normal Deaths" * (1 - 0.40) "Racial Bonus" * (1 - 0.35) "Personality Bonus" = ???
(1000) * (0.60) * (0.65) = ???
(600) * (0.65) = ???
(390) = ???

390 / 1000 = 0.39
1 - 0.39 = 0.61

THEREFORE - if this is in fact how bonuses are calculated - An Undead Cleric would have 61% fewer casualties. (^o^)

...My next question is: Is this how ALL Bonuses are calculated??
And if so - What's the order??

Racial bonus > Personality Bonus > Building Bonus(?) > Science Bonus(?) > Wage Bonus(?) > Ritual Bonus(?) > Dragon "Bonus"(?)

...There are just SO MANY bonuses, and the ORDER in which they are calculated completely changes the outcome...
Is there any easy access to this kind of information that I missed in the wiki??
Or is this something that a new player just has to ask around about??
14-03-2019, 23:15
Anudai

...Also...

...I played back during the time when Utopia Angel was the goto formatter... And with that gone, I am confused AF. (>_<)

What is Munkbot?
What is IRCbot?
What is Intel-Site?

I tried to use the Tutorial in an attempt to educate me here, but I couldn't get it to give me the information I was looking for... (>_<)
I also checked the main Utopia forum about the new developer tool, but I didn't really understand very much of it (TBH).

...Is anyone willing to be patient with me on this? Share enough to explain to me how to use these new built-in formatters correctly?

Because!! The truth is... I've been made the Monarch of my new Kingdom - and me having this kind of game knowledge is going to be the difference between being able to educate newer players correctly and sharing information throughout the Kingdom... or blundering along and making us all an easy target due to lack of formatting skillz... (-_-)
20-03-2019, 01:39
Calya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anudai

...I played back during the time when Utopia Angel was the goto formatter... And with that gone, I am confused AF. (>_<)

What is Munkbot?
What is IRCbot?
What is Intel-Site?

I tried to use the Tutorial in an attempt to educate me here, but I couldn't get it to give me the information I was looking for... (>_<)
I also checked the main Utopia forum about the new developer tool, but I didn't really understand very much of it (TBH).

...Is anyone willing to be patient with me on this? Share enough to explain to me how to use these new built-in formatters correctly?

Because!! The truth is... I've been made the Monarch of my new Kingdom - and me having this kind of game knowledge is going to be the difference between being able to educate newer players correctly and sharing information throughout the Kingdom... or blundering along and making us all an easy target due to lack of formatting skillz... (-_-)

Utopia Angel was fantastic. I still use it in work for the clipboard manager.

Munkbot/Utopiabot, IRCbot and the Intel-site page are three facets of the same thing; Munk*
Munk is roughly equivalent to UtopiaPimp from yesteryear. It's an intel-sharing site. Munk is integrated into Utopia now, so intel (E.g If you check your Throne Room page or get an SoT on an enemy province) you gather is automatically uploaded into Munk, from where the entire kingdom can see it. Because the intel-sharing is automatic there's no need** for Angel anymore.
With that in mind, Munkbot is a Discord***-based bot that allows you to interact with the intel site (Munk). Utopiabot is the same thing- A rebrand of Munkbot to reflect that Munk is now completely integrated with Utopia. Consider them equivalent.
IRCbot is a very similar, but exists ingame/online. It's a means of communicating with kingdom members who do use Discord without having it yourself. It's also integrated into the intel-site/Munk.
The intel-site is just that; An equivalent to UtopiaPimp and a repository for all intel (friendly and otherwise) that's been gathered. It can be sorted and organised and used as a planning tool.

For all the naming, it's actually fairly straightforward. You don't need to worry overly much about the tool itself- It's very useful, but start by dipping your toes into it. Browse into the intel-site page and have a look around. You'll see, for example, straight away when everyone last logged in/updated their intel. I'd also suggest getting Discord and getting onto the MUGA server (Click the link on your Throne Room page). From there, you can get advice in real-time on components that seem confusing.
Learn by using it as much as you can, and ask questions.

*Confusingly enough; Munk is also the name of the guy who coded Munk(bot). He's now helps code Utopia itself.
**When attacking, there's a calculator on the War Room page. The lack of a build strat calculator is a pity, but not a deal-breaker.
***Discord is a gaming/communication app that behaves a little like a cross between IRC and Slack.
20-03-2019, 19:24
luke3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anudai

Awesome - Thank you. (^_^)

I know for you "supernerds" (as The Moon labelled ye) this is probably common sense and obvious to you... but for intuitive players such as myself? We appreciate you sharing yourself with the rest of us. (^_-)

I personally saw multiple ways to calculate these bonuses and no easy way for me to find out HOW they were calculated... Perhaps it's in the wiki?? Or is it hidden somewhat on purpose so that there is an air of mystery and to keep people guessing and unsure??

Regardless of that, this formula is EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
Checking my math, this is what I got from the above:

(1000) "Normal Deaths" * (1 - 0.40) "Racial Bonus" * (1 - 0.35) "Personality Bonus" = ???
(1000) * (0.60) * (0.65) = ???
(600) * (0.65) = ???
(390) = ???

390 / 1000 = 0.39
1 - 0.39 = 0.61

THEREFORE - if this is in fact how bonuses are calculated - An Undead Cleric would have 61% fewer casualties. (^o^)

...My next question is: Is this how ALL Bonuses are calculated??
And if so - What's the order??

Racial bonus > Personality Bonus > Building Bonus(?) > Science Bonus(?) > Wage Bonus(?) > Ritual Bonus(?) > Dragon "Bonus"(?)

...There are just SO MANY bonuses, and the ORDER in which they are calculated completely changes the outcome...
Is there any easy access to this kind of information that I missed in the wiki??
Or is this something that a new player just has to ask around about??

A couple things. First this is NOT necessarily how all bonuses are calculated. Probably most are though. I can't think of examples right now, but generally if stuff is + or - some percentage then that means it is calculated in that way. But you get a feel for this stuff if you keep looking into it. Or keep checking the wiki, usually they are decently good about updating formulas and things.

Second, the order does not matter. Since all of those terms are multiplied together, you would have gotten the same answer if you changed the order. However, it is important to recognize when you need to use (1- X) for a term instead of just multiplying by X, and follow order of operations correctly based on parenthesis. This is more so a math lesson than anything to do with utopia, but if you follow the order of operations appropriately there are probably very few calculations in utopia that the order you put the terms into the equation matters.