The Language Conundrum

As to not de rail another thread any longer. I am posting about this issue here. For some context;

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Originally Posted by Palem

As korp has explained, if it's not in English then I can't moderate it. Relying on other people to tell me what others are saying or using unreliable translators isn't acceptable.

Think of it less as "speak American or get out!" and more as "I agreed to moderate these forums and I can't responsibly do that if people are speaking languages I do not speak"

Anyway, back on topic

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As i did not see any actual rule in the forums rules of conduct concerning this, I have to ask is this even enforceable?

In the above post, it is mentioned, albeit in humour, to "speak American or get out". What is it to speak American?

As far as i know, there are 311 different languages spoken in the USA and Canada; that is 310 more languages than the moderator admits he is able to speak or read. As a matter of fact, 60% of the world's population speak more than one language, I myself can fluently read, speak and write English, French and Yiddish.

Should we have to cater to the other 40%? Especially when there is no actual forum regulation to this?
The moderator speaks of allowing to do the job more efficiently. I point to this example;

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Originally Posted by Korp

No **** sherlock

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That was plain english. Would you consider such a post efficiently moderated?

I believe that without an actual rule, players should be able to communicate in whatever tongue they desire; as without an actual ruling, this boils down to selective policing, that is a form of oppression, and that never works out well.

By opening up to more languages, would we not by default attract more players?

I think the 40% should have to play catch up, not the other way around.

-DM <3

Actually you can read it in the rules in the very begining.

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These moderators have broad abilities and rights to delete posts and ban users at their discretion in order to keep clean and improve the atmosphere of the boards.

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That was plain english. Would you consider such a post efficiently moderated?

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It was, just cause you cant see everything doesnt mean it doesnt exist. :)


But as we are on it can we ask, was this properly moderated?

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Originally Posted by Zombies are people too

What is your malfunction? Seriously someone posts a bug and you reply like this? People still Peoplin' I guess smh

-DM <3

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As you studied rules carefully I am sure you are well aware of the rule you did break right there? Let me help you out.

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* Off-topic posts - _strongly prohibited in the Bugs section_

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Anyway, everyone thats here knows english thats quite a requirement to play the game to begin with so there is no point in allowing other languages and it wouldnt benefit anyone. It would just increase the risk of people breaking the rules of the forum in their own language cause the moderators cant keep track of every single language out there.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Actually you can read it in the rules in the very begining.

As you studied rules carefully I am sure you are well aware of the rule you did break right there? Let me help you out. .

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"Breaking rules isn't bad when what you're doing is more important than the rule itself"
-Kim Harrison

In this case, calling you out on your unnecessary rudeness which, imo, is a cancer to these forums; Internet anonymity makes people ugly and I try my best to restore some humanity where it is lacking.

Also, I did not study the rules, I just looked at both posts and coul not fins the wording I am looking for in regards to this, please if you found it, show me! :D I actually enjoy being educated when i do not know the answers.

-DM <3

Patting yourself on the back and thinking you are above the rules cause you think you do "good work" is rather sad. It's simply not your job you are a poster not a moderator.

You're entitled to your opinion and interpretation :D and I would argue for your right to state it. You can totally assume I write this for my own self inflation but that does not make it objectively true; many here who know the real me can attest to that.

Please again link the rule pertaining to my OP, as I can not find it by myself after trying.

-Dm <3

I already quoted the relevant text dont like to repeat myself.

Oh i read that, but I don't see the relevance, as neither using another language would "dirty" nor "diminish" the atmosphere of the forums, unlike some of the salty personal attacks that pollute it constantly. If anything, it makes it more colourful.

-DM <3

Thanks for choosing to move this to another thread.

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Originally Posted by Zombies are people too

I have to ask is this even enforceable?

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In the strictest sense, anything I wish to be enforceable is enforceable. If I wanted to enforce the rule of no longer using the letter E, I could. Of course I would never do that and if I did I probably wouldn't be a mod for much longer, as people above me have every right to remove me, but the authority given to mods to rather far reaching.

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In the above post, it is mentioned, albeit in humour, to "speak American or get out". What is it to speak American?

As far as i know, there are 311 different languages spoken in the USA and Canada; that is 310 more languages than the moderator admits he is able to speak or read. As a matter of fact, 60% of the world's population speak more than one language, I myself can fluently read, speak and write English, French and Yiddish.

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You picked up the humorous intent, but I think you missed my point. I know the language is English and not American. The point I was trying to make was that I'm not trying to be some ignorant American that demands everyone else operate on my wavelength.

I was asked to moderate the forums and I'm happy to do so, but as I explained, the only languages I can moderate with a responsible amount of effectiveness is English. Since the game is all in English, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that the community hub also be in English.

Furthermore, you don't even need to speak English particularly well. A lot of players' first language isn't English and that's cool. I try to crack down on people making fun of or hassling people that are clearly less comfortable with English. I think the only instance where anyone gets grief for their English is Elit, but he's really just in on the joke.

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The moderator speaks of allowing to do the job more efficiently. I point to this example;
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That was plain english. Would you consider such a post efficiently moderated?

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I believe it was. Korp was acting like a jerk. I told him to stop. He stopped.

I don't believe in ruling with an iron fist as far as how Utopians interact with each other. The forums used to have mods that moderated with a very "black and white" view and I wouldn't say the forums were any nicer or more welcoming and they were an absolute ghost town because people didn't feel like they could talk freely. Sometimes people get angry and they need to voice those frustrations, at either other players or the game owners or mods or whoever and it's the moderators job to decide when people are acting inappropriately and if they are what the recourse should be.

That said, with the new owners getting new mods and trying to make the game more welcoming for newer players, maybe my hands off approaching to moderation will be a thing of the past. We'll have to see. But I'm told otherwise, I moderate the way I do because I think it's the best way to do so.

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I think the 40% should have to play catch up, not the other way around.

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I agree! Learning new languages is a great way of not only meeting and interacting with new people but just broadening yourself as a person. I can read French on like a very small child's level and I wouldnt dare speak it for anyone that actually speaks French because I'd just embarrass myself. There's lots of languages I'd like to learn, but alas life often has different plans than what we want ;)

While I firmly stand on my opinion, I really do appreciate the effort you have clearly put into this respectable and concise response. I also do respect the position you hold and the person behind it who takes this responsibility so evidently serious on a volunteer basis; there's no greater virtue than giving your time and effort for free imo.

I did get your point, and the use of your quote was more to segway into my point that even two nations out of the multitudes that play this game can and use alternate languages to socialize. Some of these people would be more comfortable socializing in their native tongue, and maybe shy away from the forums due to this unwritten policy, and that saddens me because they'd only add to the community for the most part. I applaud you for standing up for those that try, but I have to believe a vast many players don't bother coming here and slip through the cracks. It further saddens me the reason for this is that though i like to imagine the greater majority of players who frequent these forums aren't being malicious nor intend to write things that some find derogatory or offensive, and that such bad apples are the reason you need to moderate. Civilization moves at its slowest individuals; I guess why that's the reason there is still instructions on shampoo bottles.

Again, the second quote was more to further my point. I have seen posts removed for bad language and I just always considered **** to be one of those 4 letter words, so seeing it left there leads me to assume it is missed or not dealt with. Private disciplinary measures aside, if I were to see that, I'd be puzzled as to why I'd have to remove לְחַרְבֵּן or Merde.

I think you should use your French, and eff anyone negative nancys who shirked at your pronunciation or verb mix ups. You'll only get better, even with your reading, it's never too late to devote time to self improvement. It's a beautiful language, and I'll admit I was lucky to have the advantage of learning it in school from a very early age on through graduation.
Never be embarrassed for trying anything ;D

Anyway, I get your perspective, and respect it, but I am what I am and just see it differently.

-DM <3

I'm of the opinion that some 4 letter words are much worse than others and also that context is important. I don't think someone should be reasonable off put by someone joking about how their kingdom played like ****. The same is not true for someone calling someone else a worthless, sniveling, little ****.

And you're always free to suggest a forum for people to speak other languages. I don't speak for the owners or Bishop. My only input would be how little I could help with moderation

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Originally Posted by Zombies are people too

Oh i read that, but I don't see the relevance, as neither using another language would "dirty" nor "diminish" the atmosphere of the forums, unlike some of the salty personal attacks that pollute it constantly. If anything, it makes it more colourful.

-DM <3

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The text snippet states that the moderator is entitled to moderator the forum as he sees fit.

But whats the point in this thread anyway as you chose to disregard the rules when you feel like it goes against your beliefs either way?

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Originally Posted by Palem

I'm of the opinion that some 4 letter words are much worse than others and also that context is important. I don't think someone should be reasonable off put by someone joking about how their kingdom played like ****. The same is not true for someone calling someone else a worthless, sniveling, little ****.

And you're always free to suggest a forum for people to speak other languages. I don't speak for the owners or Bishop. My only input would be how little I could help with moderation

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I see your point about intent of usage, and I can agree with that. Maybe it is time to broaden the forums to host other languages, even if it's just small threads to start under general Talk to see what kind of population we are talking about.

-DM <3

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Originally Posted by Korp

The text snippet states that the moderator is entitled to moderator(sic) the forum as he sees fit.

But whats the point in this thread anyway as you chose to disregard the rules when you feel like it goes against your beliefs either way?

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https://media.giphy.com/media/CziZSOFReWPao/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Zombies are people too

I see your point about intent of usage, and I can agree with that. Maybe it is time to broaden the forums to host other languages, even if it's just small threads to start under general Talk to see what kind of population we are talking about.

-DM <3



https://media.giphy.com/media/CziZSOFReWPao/giphy.gif

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So much for being nice I guess. Just an act who would have thought that.

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Originally Posted by Korp

So much for being nice I guess. Just an act who would have thought that.

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On the contrary, I'm sweet af :D So sweet, I go to bed at night wondering what is going on in your life to make you the way you are, and wishing I could hug you and tell you everything is going to be ok.

-DM <3