So when are we gonna redo the science? I still hate it, want the old system back, skill and activity should be awarded not the "random scientist system".
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So when are we gonna redo the science? I still hate it, want the old system back, skill and activity should be awarded not the "random scientist system".
How about a combined old/new system ?
Scientists/druids/teachers/gurus exist as they do now,
and each hour, they produce books on their field (1-10 per hr)
The <number of books> /(acres+1000) determines the +% bonus you get in each field.
When these important people get abducted, they also take a small number of books with them to their new land.
But mostly these books will always remain on the land they were created in.
There should also be more fields:
Siegecraft (offensive military only)
Palisade (defensive military only)
Navigation (reducing exploring costs, more acres into the explore pool)
Logistics (reduces attack time like barracks)
When a scientist is abducted, for 3 hrs, he state says "rebellion" or "re-education".
He doesnt do anything during this period.
And if another province succeeds in an abduction period, this new scientist is likely to get abducted as he is probably trying to find a way out.
I don't like the randomness either, in fact I dislike the new science, except for the fun names, and whilst I understand the old system was replaced because it was abusable the current system is broken, it's too hard to get, too hard to keep...you can't go plunder a ton of gc and buy a ton of books, now you have to find a target with loads of sci and no unis and hope you don't get abducted 10x in retal if you manage to grab a mere handful...coming oow you have a big bullseye on your head if you're a little landfat and make for an easy abduct, the whole system is annoying and the randomness is equally annoying, yes of course you can reassign but not when you get them and your offline for 3 hrs.
I doubt books will ever come back but please make sci better than the current system.
How many manage to max all fields before the age ends and actually manage to keep hold of them? Very few I'd imagine.
How about the ability to pre-select the field you want your novice to be in for the next X scientists, that at least would be a start, so you can choose random or select a field? Thoughts?
My apologies for ignoring the real content in your suggestion as I do like it and feel it has merit to consider, I hope to see more feedback/suggestion from others on this topic and I will generate my own feelings when I return. However I do have one major statement in that scientist generation is no longer random, are you aware of this?
Scientists have a base "training" rate per tick (which is not random). When it reaches 100% a new scientist is spawned. This training rate per tick can be increased by labs, the revelations spell, and racial bonuses. So far I've been able to tune my training/spawn rate to produce 4ish in a 24 hour period with a reasonably balanced build.
I believe abducts don't generate GBP, which is why you can get hit for massive amounts of scientists. I also believe it was a topic mentioned in the podcast.
I like the idea of a separation of research and scientists. At the moment it's pretty easy to cripple a province by running a bunch of abducts - which may be solved with GBP for abducts.
Perhaps a hybrid system could be that researchers or scientists are permanent additions to the province but the produce a stealable resource - books. Their current levelling system could adjust the number of books per tick they will produce. Then scientists/researchers can be moved around to other science focuses. Like if you have 1 scientist in alchemy, they will produce 1 book per tick for a 0.1% increase to income per tick. 5 scientists, 5 books and a 0.5% increase per tick. In my humble opinion, this would be better for strategic allocation of long term science researching and reduce the randomness of a scientist focus spawns (where you're focusing on maxing out population science, but you new scientists are all spawning in tools or something). Also, I don't know, maybe scientists don't need to lose their level in this form when moving between categories, if you're also producing more permanent scientists throughout the age.
But I'd like to add, books per acre can produce ridiculously huge bonuses for chained provinces, which does help in having faster wars. Fixed bonuses are much better, not not having it allocate gc to producing books per acre is better.
I think that the progress of abducted scientists should be completely reset back to recruits and not transit as whatever they were prior to the abduction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnsdiow
That way abducts is an alternative way to getting scientists compared to the regular way, not a obviously superior way.
I also find the new science system working in all the wrong ways. Not only because the spawn rate is really low, even with revelation, but because there is very little you can do to protect it. You are forced to ALWAYS run universities... now the admins nerf the unis to 50%. For an attacker there is no problem, as if you get abducted you just retal abduct or find an abduct somewhere else... For tm, weak as they are compared to attackers, there is no way to protect. Not only do you lose ~10% of your millitary per hit, but there is also no option to get them back other then to wait a few days for them to respawn and 1 other week to have them turn into proffessors.
To make it worse admins implemented a no limit science, so you can abduct over the limits. This implements various abuses.. from full waving smaller kds for science, that cant win if they declare, to just hitting fresh oow people who are not yet fully pumped yet. Even more hits go into kds running prosperous stance... cause we all know they are not protected in any way and get nerfed gains in return.
Make libraries stronger, cause as they are now its a useless builduing. Make revelation stronger for tm to compensate for loses in a way. Nerf abducts or remove the no limit science entirely. Introduce a gbp protection for science hits, cant be that one can abduct same province 3x and get same % of their science each hit.
I can agree with this, it seems like the game has become nothing but abducts when out of war, for every land-hit we take, there are usually 2-3 others that are abducts. The only protection is to be in war.
As far back as I can remember sciences have had issues. On one hand they are awesome as they 'allow you to grow in power without growing acrage' but on the other when a player excels in sciences they become an unwitting farm. There were ages when the learn attack made sage unbearable to run- so they gave sage learn immunity- then sage became worrisome so the dropped it to -75% learn damge, -50%, ever-shifting because sage and learn both complicate the game.
They (sage and learn) are incongruous and the disharmony has at one time or another threatened the existance of each of them. The new system seems to make that predicament more apparent.
Is there actually a solution that would not involve the elimination of one or both of them?
I wouldn't want to eliminate abduction, but I would preserve sage over it.
I think if they increased scientists spawn rate, and made abduct steal scientist experience (take their research notes!) it would simplify a lot of things. It would make labs a viable building for attackers, and it would help prevent T/Ms from falling so far behind in science.
You would have to make it damaging enough to be worth using, but not so much that we have the same problem we have now.
Right now as an attacker, you have to run unis, and do plenty of abduct attacks to keep your edge. My science is pretty much soft-capped in each category now, but I keep doing abducts, because if I get hit with a wave of them without my unis, I lose so many of them, and it can REALLY hurt. You shouldn't be able to lose a weeks worth of progress in science in a single attack.
Make abducts UF only so if you want some free science, you gotta commit as a kd.
Well it'd certainly be interesting to make abducts only available once somebody has given you meter and see how that influences things.Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoheadbutt
Or make abducts available Hostile only but to the aggressor so you pretty much have to give button first before you can abduct.
Another idea is to get rid of abducts, amnesia and revelations completely, halve sci spawn rate and make provinces choose which science they want. This makes sci allocation much more crucial.