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Hey there,
So I'm a Faery Paladin trying to cast on a Human Tactician. No defensive spells on the human, no ritual. In warCF, I have like 1.05 raw wpa, 30% channeling. The human has sub 0.2 raw wpa. about 15% land bigger and 10% NW bigger.
I have 60% guilds and just failed 3/3 Patriotism. The average spell that I do land is 4-6 hrs (pat/rev). On my own prov the duration is around 10-12 hours.
... what is influencing the **** successrate and crap duration here?
Regards,
NighT
You're casting spells on a kingdom that is at war and you aren't at war with (your own kingdom), so the -75% effectiveness for opping into a kd at war applies. If your kingdom has a barrier ritual up, multiply that by another -25% effectiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by NighT
We need more data points to draw conclusions.
Edit: Sorry this was in reply to the OP not to the 2nd post in the thread. it's a fair question - are you are war / do you have a KR up?
Night thought you where a better player then pick faery paladin
Is is seriously true? Then the implementation of Paladin is just epic fail. This way the personality cannot even function as intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selephant
I know theres the double 75% negative for intra KD casting hostile spells... But you're not seriously suggesting selfspells are also affected by that are you ?! WarCF + Barrier ritual was up.
@Colhdhearted, not sure who you are. But Im but a simple nub, but boosting +10% ome when needed, or slap on some spells for a chain is kinda nice.
Yes thats exactly what Im suggesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by NighT
So that doesnt explain the crappy duration on those intra-casts. What's causing those?
It's pretty retarded that SUPPORT spells eat -75% for casting out of war, then another -75% for casting on a kingdom in war (your own). I get that the Ritual might muck things up (pretty stupid, but hey .. that's somewhat understandable), but that double -75% for casting SUPPORT spells on your own KD is retarded.
Regards,
NighT
There is no penalty for paladin spells intra kd in war
Yippee .. then why am I blowing up wizards like mad on 60% guilds? I regularly fail 2/3 spells on the intra-KD humans. Those humans at 10-12% guilds. Successrate/duration based on both provs guilds?
Mod WPA, duration on guilds.
@Bishop,
I get that the successrate is wpa-based, but how on earth is a Faery Paladin @ 30% channeling / 1.05 (1.1 now) raw wpa still failing most of the spells on a Human Tactician @ 0.2-0.25 raw wpa (no sciences/ritual anymore)? I have trouble landing PI, Rev and Patriotism is near impossible. 1.43 mod vs 0.225 mod .. or about 6 times higher wpa with spells being "significantly" easier this age.
The spells that I do land, have crappy durations, especially compared to my own province. This is with NW being roughly 10-15% different and 60% guilds on my own prov / 10-12% guilds on the humans. Is the receiving-province guilds-percentage of importance here? Is there an auto -50% duration on Paladin cast spells (in support) or something?
Curious to hear what's causing the pretty crappy results.
Regards,
NighT
I am no expert but Fae has no magic bonus. 1 wpa raw is nothing. Maybe when you hit 5 wpa? But I doubt you see results til you have 9 wap.
Faery Bonuses All Spells
Hey Kendy,
That is correct, Faery has no offensive magic bonus other than Mages Fury (+20% offensive wpa). Keep in mind though, that it's not so much the total modified wpa that's important, but rather the relative wpa. At this point in the age, unless you've done some real pumping, most provinces arent at 5 raw wpa. The reason late age you'll want to be at a high wpa, is because the provinces you're casting on have a high wpa too.
Currently, having six times the modified wpa as the receiving province has, should be more than plenty to land stuff. If it isnt, it means intra-landing spells is more difficult than landing MS / NM, which required roughly 5 to 4 times the modified wpa.
Regards,
NighT
Pat is considered a "hard" spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by NighT
http://thedragonportal.eu/guides/26/magic.htm
Relative difficulty on par with nightmares. THOUGH i think nightmares had they difficultly reduced since age 26. Easy thing to compare is last age near the end of the age my kd ran elf counts heretics doing nm waves...i'd say we needed a 4:1 ratio to cast at 80% success.
So basically if you failed 3/3 that'd put pat as a bit harder than nm waving maybe its more on par with MS/LL. Either way 6:1 your probubly just geting unlucky try counting over 40-50 casts and i bet your more like 60-40 succes/fail at 6 relative wpa. not unrealistic.
As for crap duration "15% land bigger and 10% NW bigger" your starting to fall off optimal range of casting maybe not to the extent i'd exepct your seeing but its not unreasonable.
I think the size difference plays a major role. I'm fea/pal too. When I do a revelation run on my humans the duration varies greatly per prov. Anywhere from 4 to 12 hours or so.
I can confirm Pats is much tougher to land than PI or FL.
Why would size difference play ANY role in support spells? Why introduce a mechanic that is so hindered right out of the gate?
Paladin is a decent personality, the concept of support spells is solid. Just... keep things separate. WPA is offensive spells, Guilds is self spells and should also be support spells, since those are self spells. That way, you don't force Paladins to run ridiculously high WPA numbers just to succeed on the average WPA numbers of an attacker.
We all know that WPA numbers inflate across the board as the age goes on, so slowly Paladin will become more and more useless with more and more self spell failures. You're forcing kingdoms to forgo WPA and risk getting obliterated by enemy spells, just to be able to get support spells. This is unreasonable.
Alternatively, you are forcing kingdoms to inflate the crap out of their Paladin WPA just to be able to keep ahead of the increasing WPA numbers of attackers as the age goes on. How do you choose? Protect your attackers and force your Paladins to run huge Guilds all the time, even in war, just to stay ahead? Or throw your attackers to the WPA wolves just to be able to benefit from the Paladin support spell mechanic?
A couple Massacres on a Paladin and they're done for weeks because they've fallen too far behind their attacker counterparts on WPA numbers with no reasonable way to recover wizards like Mystic has. Not saying they should get this, but it's a crap situation you've put Paladins in as the age goes on.
Plus you've effectively shut out any Mystics, and to an extent Heretics and Sages, from receiving support spells in most circumstances for the entire age, because they generally have higher mod WPA numbers than normal attackers. Why cut off three personalities from support spell access?
Just make Guilds% the determination of support spell success and duration on a province. You at least force attackers to run 15%+ Guilds and that costs them at least 5% buildings if not more, which is a fine enough balancing factor if you're so desperate for one. Or make support spells cost 20% more runes, whatever it takes to fix this WPA vs WPA debacle.
Also, Paladin takes pretty decent honor for intra-KD casting spells, but this in turn has led to my attackers not wanting self spells like Revelation / PI .. because it costs them quite a bit of honor (2-3 per cast, they need like 5 casts/day (3 revs / 2 PI)). Any chance we can look into this?
Verminator makes a good point about the whole WPA vs WPA issue ... I'm Faery Paladin, and I've been forced to run 60-70% guilds oow (I just cant afford more currently, pretty expensive leets on crap econ), wizard growth is dreadful. We are unable to war until we have recovered some WPA. We grow lots in war and then have to spend 1-2 weeks just pumping WPA, especially after the heavy AW on some of my guys last war. Paladin arguably needs the highest WPA in game, I fail at least 1/3rd and probably more of the spells on kingdom mates. Whether that is Revelation, PI or Pat. The other day I failed 3 BBs in a row on a human who didn't have guilds and figured he could have a Paladin waste mana on him. How does a 2 raw wpa faery fail such an easy spell on an 0.3 raw wpa human. Would suggest it isn't just WPA-based success rate.
Personally I feel Paladin should be removed all together. The personality is too important not to have, it's also by far the most demanding and boring personality there is. I get messages pretty much every hour of the day asking for self spells, in and out of war. Yet there's no real fun playing it, as you're just a support caster. The support spells however, are just far too powerful not to have.
Paladin needs some juice to make it fun to play, and somehow weakening to reduce the broken-ness of having all self spells on provinces.
Regards,
NighT
I don't see how you have to have paladins in the kingdom. If I was to run paladins it would have been core and not support provinces. Casting on others I looked at was more like war spoils. Used only in special situations and not the reason to pick them.
Fool attackers you have there NighT! Moving HPs from attackers to TMs is generally a good thing. Also to have Rev up as a human Id be willing to pay way more than a few HPs, that sh*t is craycray.
@NightT - what you have described is exactly why it should stay as it is (including re honour). It forces tough choices and compromises.
I know, and as TM I love the fact that I can score some honor points out of war .. but do my guys have to lose honor points there? I'm already spending 100% my mana OOW on intra-spells as it is anyway. Not like I can abuse it even further. Cant remember when I had mana to throw around a ToG :(
Seriously needs a wizard production boost though. I'm failing at least 1/3 intra KD spells, which most of the time blow up wizards (like a lot of the times), setting me back just over 1 tick worth of wiz production each time .. On what was 60%+ guilds.
I've yet to hear from a happy paladin in or outside my kingdom.