impeach him or face fallout!

Put a narcissistic personality disorder (Trump) at odds with a anti-social personality disorder (Kim) and neither is going to back off. Expect missiles to fly people! Now normally the U.S. congress would and could stop this. Why do you ask? Because a declaration of war is a unilateral treaty according to the U.S. constitution, meaning Trump can't declare war, he needs congress for that. However North Korea is a different situation according to that same constitution. If you recall a history lesson about the fifties you would know the Korea war officially never ended, only a ceasefire was declared.

Are you really blaming Trump for North Korea problem? Let me guess cancer is Trumps fault Too or aids. North Korea has been a problem for decades. Bush and Obama sat on there hands letting Kim get nukes with the ability to hit the USA. Which Kim says he will hit guam which would be a act of war. So what do you want Trump to do? Stick his head in the sand? Bow down to North Korea like Obama did for Iran? Just wait till Iran gets nukes thanks to Obama. But sure keep blaming Trump......

Edit for clarity on my position.

Edit:
Comment was restated to a humane statement, so I'll edit mine too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Palem

Man, you've quickly devolved from a poorly informed person that I disagree with to an actual piece of garbage

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I will restate my position so it doesn't come off so harsh. Obama was elected by Democrats, he allowed north Korea to get the ability to strike the USA by not doing anything. So poor California and Washington will be the ones who pays for Obama's mistakes. But seeing they voted for him and his hands off policy put them in this situation. I believe president Trump will lead with stength and avoid any nucluer war. Hands off approach does not work when dealing with crazy people.

Obama didn't do nothing.

Also, Trump recertified Obama's Iran deal, so I guess it wasn't too bad.

Anyways it's impossible to have a rational discussion anymore about politics. Just angers both sides honestly and I try not to dwell on it anymore hense my silence. But I have many friends in South Korea in the military and I pray nothing bad happens. Everyone deserves to live long happy lives in my opinion. One key I have found to a happy life is not discussing politics. God bless everyone and I hope everything works out.

That might be the first post you've had in the politics forum that I wholeheartedly agree with in it's entirety lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Are you really blaming Trump for North Korea problem? Let me guess cancer is Trumps fault Too or aids. North Korea has been a problem for decades. Bush and Obama sat on there hands letting Kim get nukes with the ability to hit the USA. Which Kim says he will hit guam which would be a act of war. So what do you want Trump to do? Stick his head in the sand? Bow down to North Korea like Obama did for Iran? Just wait till Iran gets nukes thanks to Obama. But sure keep blaming Trump......

Edit for clarity on my position.

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Of course it wasn't created by Trump. Just exasperated by him. You do the same damn thing every world leader has done in response to Kim. You ignore the verbal threats from Kim and you work behind the scenes to put the leash on him. You don't engage in a verbal 'I'm gonna kick your ass' exchange and threaten nuclear war. For **** sake look at what Trump said and then look at the response from NK.

"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump told reporters from the clubhouse of his golf course in Bedminster, N.J., where he was being briefed separately on the opioid epidemic. “They will be met with fire and the fury like the world has never seen.”

North Koreas response. They release plans for nuking Guam. So theres another threat from NK and what did Trump do? Well, for one thing he failed to live up to his words AGAIN.

Trump is a big pussy who defered from serving many times and is only a tough guy when others do the actual fighting for him.

Obama most certainly did not just sit on his hands and do nothing. Did you even bother to look at anything they did about it before spouting more nonsense? Trumps policy is the same as Obama's... Just Obama didn't demean the U.S. by engaging in a childish twitter war threating the entire world. It's what everyone is *****ing about. Check it out if you don't believe it's the same policy.

Now please for god sake quit drinking the Fox news cool-aide and actually look into things yourself.

There needs to be legal grounds for impeachment, and there are nine.

Edit: In response to the original post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Palem

Obama didn't do nothing.

Also, Trump recertified Obama's Iran deal, so I guess it wasn't too bad.

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I hope by the double negative that you mean that Obama DID do something. ... Obama enforced already imposed santcions (from the Eisenhower era) and actually contunued a cash incentive (Clinton era) for DPRK.

Blaming Obama or Trump for creating this situation is as ridiculous as blaminig Truman for not nuking them in the first place, or Eisenhower for the DMZ. This situation was created by Kim Jong Un.....

There comes a time when you have to put aside partisan politics and see it for what it is, an impossible situation with an evil dictator. One thing that Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton would all agree on us that Kim Jong Un is a bad guy who has had enough chances.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazyguy

I hope by the double negative that you mean that Obama DID do something. ... Obama enforced already imposed santcions (from the Eisenhower era) and actually contunued a cash incentive (Clinton era) for DPRK.

Blaming Obama or Trump for creating this situation is as ridiculous as blaminig Truman for not nuking them in the first place, or Eisenhower for the DMZ. This situation was created by Kim Jong Un.....

There comes a time when you have to put aside partisan politics and see it for what it is, an impossible situation with an evil dictator. One thing that Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton would all agree on us that Kim Jong Un is a bad guy who has had enough chances.

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1st off it's exactly what Trump is doing. Trumps response has been no different other than 'a twitter war.' Words do not make policy. Obama imposed new sanctions on NK.
2nd where did anyone say Trump caused the NK problem? I know it's a Republican talking point but it's really not.
Yes there are times partisan politics need to be pushed asided and not being critical of our president when there is good reason to be critical of him is included in that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Are you really blaming Trump for North Korea problem?

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The main issue that I have with Trump's North Korea policy is that he's threatening a pre-emptive strike which can never be justified unless you have evidence of an imminent attack. Threatening to attack North Korea if they keep insulting and threatening the US is completely insane. I think that the UN sanctions resolution is probably the right path to go as long as you make it perfectly clear that if they don't follow through on those sanctions then China itself will be sanctioned.Threts against North Korea is never going to work because the regime views the nukes and the strategic reach as their only way to survive and not go the way of Saddam and Gaddafi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

North Korea has been a problem for decades. Bush and Obama sat on there hands letting Kim get nukes with the ability to hit the USA.

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The issue with Seoul being in range of artillery has been around since the Korean armistice, so there hasn't been any workable solution for roughly that long, unless you find millions of dead South Koreans an acceptable price to pay, which going by your previous posts I assume that you don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Which Kim says he will hit guam which would be a act of war.

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To actually do it yes, but they haven't and there's roughly 0% chance of it ever happening because they know it'd be suicidal, North Korea wants nukes for self protection and deterrence just like every other nuclear state before it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

So what do you want Trump to do?
Stick his head in the sand? Bow down to North Korea like Obama did for Iran?

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Yes that'd be more productive than threatening them on national television because those threats only give North Korea more propaganda material as well as entrenching Chinese support for the regime because China very much don't want a US ally directly on their border.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Just wait till Iran gets nukes thanks to Obama. But sure keep blaming Trump......

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Obama actually ensured that Iran won't get nukes because under the deal they have to get rid of their weapons grade Uranium and Plutonium and dismantle their centrifuges. So Obama's deal basically reset Iran's nuclear ambitions to zero as long as they comply with that initial phase.

I don't think that either North Korea or Iran having access to nukes is any worse than the US or Israel having nukes. The US to this day remains the only nation to ever use nukes against another nation, and the US has done it twice! And against civilian population centres, in contravention of international law no less.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazyguy

One thing that Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton would all agree on us that Kim Jong Un is a bad guy who has had enough chances.

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The problem is that there's no workable solution unless you accept the sacrifice of millions of South Koreans civilians and hundreds of thousands of US troops & South Korean military casualties, the current US DoD estimate is 200k-300k military casualties within the first 90 days of conflict. And that is assuming China stays out of any such conflict, which it says that it won't if the US initiates a first strike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freemehul

Because a declaration of war is a unilateral treaty according to the U.S. constitution, meaning Trump can't declare war, he needs congress for that. However North Korea is a different situation according to that same constitution. If you recall a history lesson about the fifties you would know the Korea war officially never ended, only a ceasefire was declared.

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Except that the War Powers Act of 1973 gives the President the ability to send the US Armed Forces into another nation by his word alone. And regardless of any declaration of war the US will be de facto at war at that point. You might have noticed that the US is performing military operations in Syria at this point in time and the US sent forces into Libya without an act of Congress, all those acts are technically an act of war against that state. So the President could send troops into Russia without the approval of Congress if he wants to. At that point there would be war regardless of any formal declaration of war or not. See the attack on Pearl Harbour for reference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

The main issue that I have with Trump's North Korea policy is that he's threatening a pre-emptive strike which can never be justified unless you have evidence of an imminent attack. Threatening to attack North Korea if they keep insulting and threatening the US is completely insane. I think that the UN sanctions resolution is probably the right path to go as long as you make it perfectly clear that if they don't follow through on those sanctions then China itself will be sanctioned.Threts against North Korea is never going to work because the regime views the nukes and the strategic reach as their only way to survive and not go the way of Saddam and Gaddafi.

The issue with Seoul being in range of artillery has been around since the Korean armistice, so there hasn't been any workable solution for roughly that long, unless you find millions of dead South Koreans an acceptable price to pay, which going by your previous posts I assume that you don't.

To actually do it yes, but they haven't and there's roughly 0% chance of it ever happening because they know it'd be suicidal, North Korea wants nukes for self protection and deterrence just like every other nuclear state before it.


Yes that'd be more productive than threatening them on national television because those threats only give North Korea more propaganda material as well as entrenching Chinese support for the regime because China very much don't want a US ally directly on their border.


Obama actually ensured that Iran won't get nukes because under the deal they have to get rid of their weapons grade Uranium and Plutonium and dismantle their centrifuges. So Obama's deal basically reset Iran's nuclear ambitions to zero as long as they comply with that initial phase.

I don't think that either North Korea or Iran having access to nukes is any worse than the US or Israel having nukes. The US to this day remains the only nation to ever use nukes against another nation, and the US has done it twice! And against civilian population centres, in contravention of international law no less.



The problem is that there's no workable solution unless you accept the sacrifice of millions of South Koreans civilians and hundreds of thousands of US troops & South Korean military casualties, the current US DoD estimate is 200k-300k military casualties within the first 90 days of conflict. And that is assuming China stays out of any such conflict, which it says that it won't if the US initiates a first strike.

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Build Kim Jong Un a fire, he'll be warm for a day. Set Kim Jong Un on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Wasn't it Handofthrawn that asked what was so bad about Putin and Russia?

"Russia believes that the policy of putting pressure on Pyongyang to stop its nuclear missile program is misguided and futile," Putin said in an article released by the Kremlin. "Provocations, pressure and militarist and insulting rhetoric are a dead-end road."

Kudos to humanity for maneuvering ourselves into a situation where our lives depend on the wisdom of Kim-Jong un and Donald Trump rofl.

At least punk music is making a triumphant return.

-DM <3

There are not many real options for the north korea problem. They already have nukes and missles that can deliver them. That makes war a very costly situation. Not to mention that china and russia will not be pleased with regime change in north-korea.

Kim jong un primary objective is selfpersevation. He needs to secure his own regime against foreign initiated regime change. Keep in mind that verbal treats against the north korean regime came before trump. Bush jr already called them member of the axis of evil together with Iraq, libya, syria, iran and cuba. Half of those countries where either invaded, plunged into civil war where the west actively supports opposition groups and/or have their regime changed. Nukes are an insurrance policy against direct invasion. Kim jong un is never going to give up his most important saveguard against invasion. There is simply nothing any foreign power can offer that brings the same level of security. Ukraine is a good example of why a diplomatic agreement will not work. Ukraine gave up the 3th largest nuclear arsenal in the world in exchange from security garantees from US, Russian federation and european powers. Dumbest move ever because Putin could take what he wants. Kim took lessons from the annexation of crimea and the war in east-ukraine.

So in reality Trumps options are extremely limited. He cannot persuade kim jong un to give up his nukes and missles and removing him is too costly.

At the same time doing nothing will result in growing capabilities of north-korea. With sanctions and diplomacy that growth rate might be slowed down.

Most likely the US will do a lot of barking but no bite. Nobody wins when nukes start flying and both Trump an Kim jong un are smarther then most people give them credit for.

http://assets.amuniversal.com/e3fb1a...17005056a9545d

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swirvin'Birds

Wasn't it Handofthrawn that asked what was so bad about Putin and Russia?

"Russia believes that the policy of putting pressure on Pyongyang to stop its nuclear missile program is misguided and futile," Putin said in an article released by the Kremlin. "Provocations, pressure and militarist and insulting rhetoric are a dead-end road."

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Yes he seems to be a genuine Russophile with a fetish for authoritarianism, just like his grand idol Trump who can do absolutely no wrong according to Handofthrawn.

I hope the Russians and Chinese love their Grankids too. NKDR will be bombed soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Milkman

There are not many real options for the north korea problem. They already have nukes and missles that can deliver them. That makes war a very costly situation. Not to mention that china and russia will not be pleased with regime change in north-korea.

Kim jong un primary objective is selfpersevation. He needs to secure his own regime against foreign initiated regime change. Keep in mind that verbal treats against the north korean regime came before trump. Bush jr already called them member of the axis of evil together with Iraq, libya, syria, iran and cuba. Half of those countries where either invaded, plunged into civil war where the west actively supports opposition groups and/or have their regime changed. Nukes are an insurrance policy against direct invasion. Kim jong un is never going to give up his most important saveguard against invasion. There is simply nothing any foreign power can offer that brings the same level of security. Ukraine is a good example of why a diplomatic agreement will not work. Ukraine gave up the 3th largest nuclear arsenal in the world in exchange from security garantees from US, Russian federation and european powers. Dumbest move ever because Putin could take what he wants. Kim took lessons from the annexation of crimea and the war in east-ukraine.

So in reality Trumps options are extremely limited. He cannot persuade kim jong un to give up his nukes and missles and removing him is too costly.

At the same time doing nothing will result in growing capabilities of north-korea. With sanctions and diplomacy that growth rate might be slowed down.

Most likely the US will do a lot of barking but no bite. Nobody wins when nukes start flying and both Trump an Kim jong un are smarther then most people give them credit for.

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Easy... give all of DPRK to China, then fry Turkey in Greece and feed it to Hungary. I'd say that Iran, but I wouldn't want to Russia. All this politics causes Spain for me. Its getting Chile outside, so im going Togo.

https://i.imgur.com/UAbnE8F.png

I like peaches

It's very simple really. All we need to do is make a flat policy. If anybody nukes anybody, we nuke you. Hell, y'all didn't learn the 1st time around, let's go another round of threatening global mass destruction. Maybe this time, we actually need to make a couple holes just to remind you morons just how dangerous it really is. Having nuclear weapons doesn't protect you, it makes you a viable target for nuclear attack.

I find old discussions like these fascinating. Not simply political ones...science or even history (even though this a bit of history now). Would love to hear the original posters (in this instance) new thoughts on the subject.